do we or dont we follow the sabbath?

[JaumeJ]

If rooted in Christ, Himself is proper, it is perfect to be taught of Yeshua, Himself. This has always been my way of study, and I have always listened to Paul's recommendation to do so, be rooted in Him. One may learn all there is to know about whether or not to obey the commandments and laws from the Savior, Himself. To go to anyone else to change His specific commandments is a risky endeavor at best. When He teaches all the law is observed if we observe the two great laws of Love, then anyone with any love for the brethren will know automatically the Ten Commandments are included for they show respect and love for all. If we offend, we are forgiven for we live in grace, but to teach against any of these is offensive to the family in Yeshua.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Don'y you just love zone, Her Arkansas redneck volition and demeanor. I love you zone.

 

[loveme1]

And soforth and what with. The fact is we are nothing with out the cross. Most are offendended by the cross cause they can do nothing to obtain the free gift. Flesh say's I have to work or observe some Holy day. no it is a free gift

Romans 8

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The Holy Spirit is given to serve Heavenly Father.

We can only share this nothing is forced.

 

[hermanodaniel]

If rooted in Christ, Himself is proper, it is perfect to be taught of Yeshua, Himself. This has always been my way of study, and I have always listened to Paul's recommendation to do so, be rooted in Him. One may learn all there is to know about whether or not to obey the commandments and laws from the Savior, Himself. To go to anyone else to change His specific commandments is a risky endeavor at best. When He teaches all the law is observed if we observe the two great laws of Love, then anyone with any love for the brethren will know automatically the Ten Commandments are included for they show respect and love for all. If we offend, we are forgiven for we live in grace, but to teach against any of these is offensive to the family in Yeshua.

If you carefully test what I have been trying to explain you will see that all ten commandments are not abolished neither ignored, overlooked etc. but they are fulfilled. The Law of God written on stone continues to expose sin today to non-believers pointing to Christ as their only hope of redemption but the righteous in Christ has the Law written in their hearts but not according to the letter but in the spirit. Hence why 1 Tinothy states the law is not for the righteous for those who break them!!! And in Christ we have died to sin and we continue to die daily carrying our cross! The stumbling block is that we do not serve after the letter but in the spirit.
Key verses to consider in seeing how the Law is fulfilled in Christ. John 6:28-29. John 13:34-35, 1 John 3:23 1 Peter 1:22-23

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Jaumej, What law did Abraham have ,this law that you adhere too. Where did his sons, Issac and Jacob find law. Or was it faith and faith in what. Faith that a redeemer would come and set them free and free from what. From the power of sin. Did the law set a man free or did it show him his sin. Why did the saints of old long for their redeemer. It is the cross that sets men free. Not the Sabbath.

 

[loveme1]

It is a New Covenant.

Hebrews 8

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Through Faith we receive this.

How will the Faith be shown? By hearing and doing.

 

[loveme1]

Scripture:

Matthew 7

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Even Job said "I know my redeemer lives". Do you believe that Jesus is your redeemer and that you rest in Him or do you look for something else. Maybe if you keep the law if you can He will send some one else. I am a man that was raised in church at 7 years old I knew who my redeemer was. yes we went to church on Sunday and youth church on Tuesday and prayer meeting on wednesday and intercessory pray on friday. Church is church. if there be two or three gathered together in my name there shall I be also.

We can have church right now if I can get one brother or sister to praise God with me. Church is on.

 

[Chr]

under Law means under the law of moses.If your under the law of moses you have to obey of all of it.Read the book of Galatians.

 

[Wall]

Matthew 12:5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane thesabbath, and are blameless?

Matthew 12:8For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mark 2:27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

So....if Jesus is Lord of the sabbath day. If Jesus made the sabbath for man. Why would you look for another day of rest? Why in the world would you not keep the day of rest that He made and that He says sanctifies (sets apart) you and that He said He was Lord over.

 

[loveme1]

It is strange how a day of rest seems like "work"

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

So....if Jesus is Lord of the sabbath day. If Jesus made the sabbath for man. Why would you look for another day of rest? Why in the world would you not keep the day of rest that He made and that He says sanctifies (sets apart) you and that He said He was Lord over.

My friend can you rest in keeping law. Jesus is my rest. Yes I observe Him and worship Him with my friends on Sunday and enjoy it much. But I rest in Him. there is nothing else I can do. Observing a day is work and binds me to law. I cannot keep law no one can. That's why Jesus did what he did for us. Why this offends so many I don't know.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

I think I do know some what, People do not accept the cross as their only means and feel that they must do something to earn it. It is a free gift and cannot be earned. Whether by observing a day or keeping rules. It is a free gift

 

[Wall]

under Law means under the law of moses.If your under the law of moses you have to obey of all of it.Read the book of Galatians.

The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very shortchapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. Thecommandments are not mentioned at all. Not once. Yet, those people that wish todo away with GODS commandments use scriptures from Galatians to try and do so.The law of circumcism is one of the carnal ordinances of the law that werenailed to the cross. Those that wish to do away with Gods 10 commandments willalso try and tell you that the ordinances and the ten commandments are simplyparts of the law and are not separate from one another. In saying that theywill point to a scripture thats speaking of circumcision and then apply thatscripture to Gods 10 commandments. This is done to extreme in the book ofGalatians. The scripture below separates the law, the commandments and theordinances

2 KINGS 17 [36] Butthe LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and astretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to himshall ye do sacrifice.[37] AND the statutes, AND the ordinances, AND the law,AND the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do forevermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.

AND means AND

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision isnothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

And although the law of circumcision was nailed to thecross, Gods law (the 10 commandments) are to be kept.

 

[Wall]

My friend can you rest in keeping law. Jesus is my rest. Yes I observe Him and worship Him with my friends on Sunday and enjoy it much. But I rest in Him. there is nothing else I can do. Observing a day is work and binds me to law. I cannot keep law no one can. That's why Jesus did what he did for us. Why this offends so many I don't know.

"Rest in Him"? Whats that mean? Where in scripture do you find you can make this claim to the end of not obeying His voice (as found in Hebrews)?

 

[Wall]

under Law means under the law of moses.If your under the law of moses you have to obey of all of it.Read the book of Galatians.

Exodus 16:27-30 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
[SUP]29 [/SUP]See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]So the people rested on the seventh day.

 

[Wall]

Even Job said "I know my redeemer lives". Do you believe that Jesus is your redeemer

Yes i believe that Jesus is my Redeemer. Whats He saith about what we are discussing?

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL; I am the LORD thy Godwhich teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thoushouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thypeace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

 

[hermanodaniel]

Many accuse born again Christians and some go even as far as accusing Paul of doing away with the Law when in reality it’s not the Law that is abolished it’s the old man in the flesh to whom the letter of the Law applies who is to be counted dead. This confusion has led to many contend against the Body of Christ that was purchased with the precious blood of the Lamb accusing them of voiding the Law of God or exchanging it for a license to sin under grace. Those who advocate observances to the 10 commandments are quick to cite Matthew 5:17-19. Here Jesus stated the Law won't pass away till heaven and earth passes away thus a clear indication that the Law of God are still in effect. Now as born again Christians, are we under the Law? No! Why? Because, we have died to the Law that applied to our flesh, however, the Law of God continues to lead people to Christ. If the Spirit of God dwells in us we do not live after the flesh for the letter of the Law to apply. Big difference! (Romans 8:9) Those in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:8)

Can a dead person sin?(Romans 6:7) No, and the Word of God clearly states that we are not under the Law but under grace Romans 6:14-15. You can't get any clearer than that! But notice that because it states we are not under the Law that doesn't mean the Law disappeared or was abolished it means that we are no longer under it. This indicates that the Law is still present but only for those who are in the flesh to lead them to Christ. Why? Because if we are IN Christ, the old man is dead, thus why 1 Timothy 1:8-10 states the Law is not for the righteous man but for those who transgress the Law. We cannot be alive to sin (transgress the law) and state or act like we are alive IN Christ. The old man crucified with Christ is to be counted dead that the new man IN Christ may live. However, now as born-again Christians we are not without Law. We are now under the Law of Christ (the Law of the spirit which imparts life) and not the Letter of the Law of sin and death. (Romans 8:2) I will go into this further but first I am going to explain why an attempt to obey according to the letter (10 commandments written on stone) which applies to the flesh does not justify us or even apply to those who are born again or regenerated since our new man is now created after God in righteousness and true holiness. (Ephesians 4:24)

Apart from faith, the letter produces dead works and at best partial obedience. Partial obedience is disobedience due to the fact that there are no gray spots in being obedient you either obeyed fully or you failed to obey, hence why the letter kills because we can never obey it fully to the "T". This is why the Law in the form of the letter is not of faith. Galatians 3:12. It seems that may law abiding sects advocating obedience according to the letter stumble over this simple truth. The Law (Torah) in the letter exposes what sin is and condemns sins BUT it does not serve as a restraint to sin since it's not of faith. The results are dead works, since the letter is not of faith. Those in the OT like Abraham, Jacob (Israel), David, Samuel etc. were all justified by faith and not by keeping the letter. Circumcision was given after Abraham was justified by faith and this was a seal of his righteousness that he attained before by faith. It also revealed those who will be justified by faith in Christ after him (Abraham). Circumcision is really of the heart inwardly, that is, of the spirit and not the letter. Romans 2:29

 

[hermanodaniel]

If we have been regenerated in the spirit, are we to keep the 10 commandments in the letter? Are we not under the Law of Christ?

Jesus stated clearly that unless one is born again he or she cannot see the Kingdom of God meaning regeneration. The individual's old nature tainted by sin is shattered or put to death and a new creation united in Christ emerges. We become born again or born of God and now God has made his dwelling place in us guiding us and instructing us in His ways pouring out His love in our hearts to obey after the spirit. (John 3; Romans 5) Jesus' death and resurrection made this possible for we were united in His death and His resurrection in which now we serve God after the newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter (Romans 7:6) We became dead to sin and alive to righteousness after the spirit by faith. Romans 6:10 "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."

Now that we are dead to sin and are to be continued to be counted dead to sin we strive to walk and live after the spirit and love as Christ loved which is the Law we are now under: the Law of Christ. (John 13:34-35 Galatians 6:2) We do not and cannot keep the 10 commandments according to the letter since they apply to the flesh and condemn the flesh once we fail to keep it perfectly Romans 7:25. In the flesh we can only serve sin because we are dominated by the sinful nature which strength is the Law of God. So is the Law of God bad? NO, because the Law brings us to Christ revealing the need for a redeemer. However, the Law of God are not pushed aside as being obsolete or abolished their true intentions are now fulfilled in the Law of Christ!


How can some one worship in spirit and truth yet be alive to the letter of the law in the flesh (sinful nature)? Romans 7 states that this is spiritual adultery… You can’t be alive to the flesh and state you are in the truth in the spirit. Why? Because if you advocate observance to the letter you are alive to the flesh deceiving yourself in trying to keep the letter of the Law which is not of faith. The New covenant is of the spirit and gives no room for any confidence in the flesh since the flesh is now dead crucified with Christ and is to be continued to be counted dead. The Law is now written in our hearts and this Law is of the spirit not of the letter which kills. (2 Corinthians 3) The letter kills because again it’s the strength of sin ever since we were sold to sin (Romans 7:14)

What about Paul stating the Law is not void but rather that we uphold the Law? Upholding the Law (Torah) means to agree that the Law is good and perfect and that it is to be obeyed but obedience is of the heart (Romans 6:17). When we confide in Christ alone realizing that we contribute nothing (no dead works according to the letter but rather faith working in love Galatians 5:6b) we are upholding the Law since He has kept it perfectly. The Law (Torah) exposes sin for what it is and you need to be counted dead to sin that Christ may live in you otherwise your flesh will have dominion over you as it is provoked by the Torah in your members. Those in the flesh cannot please God but if you are dead to sin opposed to being dead IN sin, you are then abiding in the new creation that God has created through His Son’s sacrifice and resurrection which is Christ in you the hope of Glory! A regenerated spirit is one with Christ and in order for that transformation to manifest outwardly one must die daily to me, myself and I, that Christ may be the center bearing fruit to the glory of God. Upholding the Law (Torah) and not making it void does not mean that we can now keep it in our flesh. It means that inwardly we are to recognize that we have transgress it and instead of excusing ourselves or justifying sin we are acknowledging our sin and thus bringing death to our flesh as a result, but living in the spirit because Christ lives in us. John 4:24 is exactly that when taken into context and compared with Psalm 51:6, Job 38:36, Jeremiah 31:22 (Rightly dividing the Word). Just as Jesus revealed to the Samaritan woman her sins and she truthfully responded in saying she had no husband she was demonstrating what the Father desires from us. The Father desire that upon our sins being exposed that we truthfully speak or expose what we are harboring in our inward parts which is sin which is transgression against the Law (Torah). Partial obedience is not what the Father wants because compare what happened to Saul in 1 Samuel 15, he was rejected! We will never obey in our FLESH (the sinful nature) the Law (Torah) because it provokes our flesh to sin and because it is not of faith. If a little yeast works through the whole dough what do you think a little sin would do? Could you imagine our thoughts on display for everyone to see? It would expose anyone and everyone. To worship in spirit and in truth is to willingly admit and acknowledge our sin and the wages of sin is death to our flesh but in Christ it doesn’t have to mean death to our spirit as well. Why? Because Christ lives in us and we are united in spirit with the Author of Life.

 

[hermanodaniel]

And this is why we see

Here's some repost of what I previously posted

"...the commandments mentioned in 1 John 5, Revelation 22, John 14 & 15 etc. are not references to the 10 commandments written on stone they're references to the Law of Christ. Compare John 6:28-29, 13:34-35 with 1 John 3:23. Remember context is key so when we read in 1 John that his commands are not grievous he is referring to the command given by Christ to love as He loved and John goes on to say if we don't love our brother we can't say we love God. If you haven't noticed in John 14 Jesus stated if you love me keep MY commands and in context with the previous chapter John 13:34-35 Jesus was referring to the command to love as he loves which is actually a deeper love since it requires death to our flesh hence why we must carry our cross daily. Also if you carefully examined John 15:10 you will see that Jesus stated that we are to abide in His love as he abode in His Father's revealing that the commands we are now under are His which fulfills the law for Christ's commands is to love. Jesus abode in His Father's love perfectly to the T, that is, all the commands written on stone was kept perfectly something we can never do in the flesh (sinful nature). And this is why I have made my point before that we don't serve God after the letter but in newness of the spirit. Romans 7:6 This is why Jesus contrasts over and over in the Gospels with His teachings because He is revealing the true intentions underneath. We live off every Word of God and that includes every iota but not in the sense of the letter for that understanding is veiled and is unveiled in Christ revealing the deep things of God spoke of in 1 Corinthians 2 and 2 Corinthians 3. Paul was revealed the mysteries of the Gospel and that wisdom is rooted in Christ himself for He is the Living Word of God expounding the mysteries in the written Word through the Holy Spirit our teacher. The reason we are now under the Law of Christ is because it allows to be in a position to receive from God for it requires that we die to self carrying our cross and thus being in the spirit where we can understand plainly that which we have received from God and that's all the promises which results in our glorious rest in Christ. Glory to God!"

"All I can say is carefully seek God in prayer and test what I am saying reading and comparing the verses I have cited. Keep in mind that the same John who wrote the Gospels is the same John who wrote the epistles and Revelation and in His Gospel He has defined what commandments he was talking about and has mentioned them in the Gospel he wrote. Context is always key. I am not ignoring the written word nor am I advocating that anybody should do this. The written Word has always been pointing to the Living Word of God who is Jesus Christ and His testimony whom again John wrote is the spirit of prophecy. In the end those who have understood the Word of God in the spirit has not neglected not one iota but rather has embraced it to the fullest capacity in Christ in which one day we will see COMPLETELY!"

"Rightly divide that with romans 7:6 where we don't serve after the oldness of the letter but after the newness of the spirit. No one is saying that we don't keep the commandments of God. They are kept by believing in the Christ whom God has sent and to love other as he loved (Cf. John 6:28-29, John 13:34-35, 1 John 3:23)

The two greatest commands on which hang all the law and the prophets are to love God with all of your heart, mind and soul and to love our neighbors as ourselves. Matthew 22:40 These two are fulfilled in the following two commands given by Christ.

John 6:28-29 28 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

John 13:34 "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

This covers the first great command for we cannot offer God any dead works which are produced by the letter because if we stumble at one it results in breaking the Law as a whole and that offering is then blemished which is unacceptable. But in Christ we can offer our bodies as spiritual sacrifices before God. Romans 12 but this is in the spirit where our flesh was crucified with Christ for sinning under the letter our flesh was condemned but our spirit is justified in righteousness. Romans 8:1-4, 8:10.

The second great command is to "Love your neighbor as yourself" and this is fulfilled in the other command given by Christ which is the Law of Christ. Notice that Christ states a new commandment that on the surface seems to be the same as Leviticus 19:18 which is "Love your neighbor as yourself" BUT actually it's a bit deeper because Jesus states "Love others as I HAVE LOVED YOU" thus a sacrificial love that requires death to the flesh. This is the LAW OF CHRIST reflecting the truth behind the letter now written in our hearts if we are born again in the Spirit of God."