salvation

[justamazed]

I always learned the trinity to be much like an egg. We can all accept and visualize an egg. Inside the an oval shape possible brown or white. The egg has three seperate parts. A shell which contains a egg yolk and egg white. Depending on what you useing the egg for each has its own charteristics. The yolk is only used in Brule's one one my favorite desserts and the white is only used making meringues for pie and the shell which contains whole the package together. Of course you can have eggs at breakfast which are typically the white and yolk cooked together. have them scrambled, boiled, poached, fried with some hashbrowns and toast and I am going to breakfast now. Made myself hungry

Maybe that will help with some confusion or thought process

Is not the shell discarded? I understand the trinity, it's just not who God is. Again God is Spirit.

 

[Bowman]

where is this in scripture.

For god so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him, and believes he is God. will never die..

I can't find that in my bible. is mine flawed?

or how about this.

for it is by grace we have been saved through faith and believing Jesus is God, not of works. lest any one should
boast?

or this

whoever calls out on the name of the lord., and says yes Lord, i believe you are God,, will be saved.

None of your paraphrasing does anything to diminish Jesus' deity.

Here is a 'clearer' example for those of you that lack the ability to see clearly...


οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος

oidamen de hoti ho huios tou theou hēkei kai dedōken hēmin dianoian hina ginōskōmen ton alēthinon kai esmen en tō huiō autou Iēsou Christō houtos estin ho alēthinos theos kai zōē aiōnios

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)


Is this clear enough, now...?

 

[stek]

You reject Jesus as God.

For this, you will die twice.

Simple.

Proverbs 16:21 the wise man is known by his common sense, and a pleasant is the best.

 

[Bowman]

Is not the shell discarded? I understand the trinity, it's just not who God is. Again God is Spirit.

No, you do not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

None of your paraphrasing does anything to diminish Jesus' deity.

Here is a 'clearer' example for those of you that lack the ability to see clearly...


οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος

oidamen de hoti ho huios tou theou hēkei kai dedōken hēmin dianoian hina ginōskōmen ton alēthinon kai esmen en tō huiō autou Iēsou Christō houtos estin ho alēthinos theos kai zōē aiōnios

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)


Is this clear enough, now...?

I see nothing in that passage which says we must believe this to be saved..

Are you trying to add to scripture now??

Who is the true God and eternal life in that passage? Jesus, or the father?

lets see what jesus says.

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Now the same author wrote both. did the author contradict himself?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see nothing in that passage which says we must believe this to be saved..

Are you trying to add to scripture now??

Who is the true God and eternal life in that passage? Jesus, or the father?

lets see what jesus says.

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Now the same author wrote both. did the author contradict himself?

I am not trying to deny Jesus is God, or say we should not teach he is God.. I am trying to show.. your not going to convince someone of any truth if you are going to condemn them to hell. And there is nothing in scripture which states this must be believed for a person to get to heaven.

If anyone says Christ was no pre-existant before his birth, I can see the argument, how can mere man pay for our sin.. But I have not heard this from anyone lately.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, you do not.

lets be honest. Non of us will fully understand it until we get to heaven..

 

[stek]

Is not the shell discarded? I understand the trinity, it's just not who God is. Again God is Spirit.

Yes some people discard the shell. I personally use the shell in my garden as a mulch, fertilizer,

Some people discard alot of things, the point is an egg which is one also has three seperate parts. You freely accept that but disregard that anything else could be of the same or try to minimize the value of the shell.

You once used John 1:1 but have since left verse alone and dont respond to it. How do you explain John 1:1 which clearly states two which are one?

Again I will state that I believe you to be right that salvation does not depend on believeing a doctrine such as the trinity. I am not trying to convince you of the trinity, just trying to assist you in what I believed you to was confusing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is not the shell discarded? I understand the trinity, it's just not who God is. Again God is Spirit.

so since God is spirit, that means there can not be 3 unique individual spirits. all in unity and character and essence, which are one, and this be God?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes some people discard the shell. I personally use the shell in my garden as a mulch, fertilizer,

Some people discard alot of things, the point is an egg which is one also has three seperate parts. You freely accept that but disregard that anything else could be of the same or try to minimize the value of the shell.

You once used John 1:1 but have since left verse alone and dont respond to it. How do you explain John 1:1 which clearly states two which are one?

Again I will state that I believe you to be right that salvation does not depend on believeing a doctrine such as the trinity. I am not trying to convince you of the trinity, just trying to assist you in what I believed you to was confusing.

yes, but he also has to explain john 1: 1 - 16. not just john 1: 1

 

[Bowman]

Let's review your ignorance...

I see nothing in that passage which says we must believe this to be saved..

Are you trying to add to scripture now??

Who is the true God and eternal life in that passage? Jesus, or the father?

lets see what jesus says.

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Now the same author wrote both. did the author contradict himself?

Of the seventy times in which the demonstrative pronoun ουτος has a personal referent in the Gospel of John and his Epistles, the Father is never the referent! This fact, along with proximity, significantly increases the likelihood that Jesus Christ is the antecedent in the case of 1 John 5.20, as thus…


οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος

oidamen de hoti ho huios tou theou hēkei kai dedōken hēmin dianoian hina ginōskōmen ton alēthinon kai esmen en tō huiō autou Iēsou Christō houtos estin ho alēthinos theos kai zōē aiōnios

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)




Regarding your centerpiece, John 17.3, if you were even remotely familiar with Greek, then you would already be cognizant that there are absolutely no grammatical reasons at all for denying that αληθινον θεον refers to Jesus Christ.

This can be deduced from a study of the article with multiple substantives connected via kai.


αυτη δε εστιν η αιωνιος ζωη ινα γινωσκωσιν σε τον μονον αληθινον θεον και ον απεστειλας ιησουν χριστον

hautē de estin hē aiōnios zōē hina ginōskōsin se ton monon alēthinon theon kai hon apesteilas Iēsoun christon

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. (John 17.3)


You were saying...?

 

[Bowman]

lets be honest. Non of us will fully understand it until we get to heaven..

That's an excuse to NOT study scripture.

 

[stek]

The trinity is a hard concept to grasp, I am not as certain as you (bowman) that anyone who does not believe in the trinity is not going to heaven. Remember a pleasant teacher is best. I do believe your correct in the trintiy John 1:1 think you should have used John 17:1-5 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, [SUP]2 [/SUP]as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[SUP][a][/SUP] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. [SUP]4 [/SUP]I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

People over complicate Salvation. No you have to believe this doctrine, or don't believe that doctrine.....blah blah blah. It's a very simple thing

Romans 10:9

"That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved."

Whoomp there it is.

John 6:29

"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent."

WHY on earth do people think it's so complicated?

 

[shae0104]

its believe and do what he commands, not out of because there is this check of list, but because u love and want to be obiedant

 

[mark54]

WHY on earth do people think it's so complicated?

They don't on the whole in the churches, but do more on websites like these
Could it have somethnig to do with some(and I only say some) being consumed by 'theology'?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: Let's review your ignorance...

Of the seventy times in which the demonstrative pronoun ουτος has a personal referent in the Gospel of John and his Epistles, the Father is never the referent! This fact, along with proximity, significantly increases the likelihood that Jesus Christ is the antecedent in the case of 1 John 5.20, as thus…


οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος

oidamen de hoti ho huios tou theou hēkei kai dedōken hēmin dianoian hina ginōskōmen ton alēthinon kai esmen en tō huiō autou Iēsou Christō houtos estin ho alēthinos theos kai zōē aiōnios

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)




Regarding your centerpiece, John 17.3, if you were even remotely familiar with Greek, then you would already be cognizant that there are absolutely no grammatical reasons at all for denying that αληθινον θεον refers to Jesus Christ.

This can be deduced from a study of the article with multiple substantives connected via kai.


αυτη δε εστιν η αιωνιος ζωη ινα γινωσκωσιν σε τον μονον αληθινον θεον και ον απεστειλας ιησουν χριστον

hautē de estin hē aiōnios zōē hina ginōskōsin se ton monon alēthinon theon kai hon apesteilas Iēsoun christon

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. (John 17.3)


You were saying...?

lol.. don;t be so haughty just because you might know a little greek. It does not fit in the greek or the english..

Might know you, and the one who you sent.

Who is you?? the one who sent Christ.

The you is the true God. not the one who was sent.

Nice try though.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

They don't on the whole in the churches, but do more on websites like these
Could it have somethnig to do with some(and I only say some) being consumed by 'theology'?

There's false teachers everywhere. Online/Offline.....etc.....We were warned about that. It's the genuine confusion over it that I can't understand when it's stated very plainly and simplistically in the Bible.

 

[justamazed]

Yes some people discard the shell. I personally use the shell in my garden as a mulch, fertilizer,

Some people discard alot of things, the point is an egg which is one also has three seperate parts. You freely accept that but disregard that anything else could be of the same or try to minimize the value of the shell.

You once used John 1:1 but have since left verse alone and dont respond to it. How do you explain John 1:1 which clearly states two which are one?

Again I will state that I believe you to be right that salvation does not depend on believeing a doctrine such as the trinity. I am not trying to convince you of the trinity, just trying to assist you in what I believed you to was confusing.

I'll try to explain as best I can to you. In the beginning it was only the Father. However your mind can picture nothing but an invisible Spirit. Pure Consciousness and state of being (I AM). This state of being and pure consciousness is eternal. You understand this by your own life. Before knowledge, all you knew is as long as you can remember, you was! Someone told you had a beginning and this with the increase in knowledge is
also that in sorrows.

Now picture this pure holy consciousness speaking "I AM". This is consciousness taking action, the Word having made known the presence of the Father. The Word was with God meaning that God is EVERYWHERE but where this pure consciousness spoke again it made known of the Father's presence.

And the Word was God. If you're upstairs and you yell to your child to get you a glass of water, the words the child hears is recognized by your voice and he knows it.

 

[mark54]

There's false teachers everywhere. Online/Offline.....etc.....We were warned about that. It's the genuine confusion over it that I can't understand when it's stated very plainly and simplistically in the Bible.

I had been to trinitarian churches for over 25 years when I first ventured onto these kinds of websites. When I heard people talking of the ontological/economic trinity, I hadn't got a clue what they were on about. No minister of any church I went to ever preached on it. In fact no ministrer that I can recall preached on the subject of trinity at all, as it is discussed on here. We were taught the son of God died for your sin, if you repent of your sin and ask him into your life as Lord and Saviour you are saved, that's it.
The crazy demands you get on these websites are because some people have made a god out of 'doctrine' and studying. The ministers know what is most important(on the whole) and it isn't striving to have a perfect theological understanding of Father, Son and Holy Spirit,(Trinity) They seem more concerned as to their flock walking ever closer to ther teaching of Christ and the Apostles