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You are aware that in fact the character Socrates only lives through the Platonic dialogues and while a core part of the birth of philosophy and intellectual thought, he may well have been fabricated by Plato, as merely a character to voice his views. The Socrates of his dialogues may be based on Plato's old teacher which is believed to be a man named Socrates, but whether he existed or those views documented were in fact his, is completely unknown.
Many important figures in the past are questionable to whether they existed or not, but the point is Socrates doesn't need to be a deity for his work to still echoe with orginality or importance.
Many important figures in the past are questionable to whether they existed or not, but the point is Socrates doesn't need to be a deity for his work to still echoe with orginality or importance.
H
Good response man! You're right that Socrates isn't known to have existed with any level of confidence, and could have just been a fictional voice for Plato to express controversial ideas through - but the theist you were replying to didn't list Socrates 
(although many people see Buddha in the same light)
(although many people see Buddha in the same light)
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Good response man! You're right that Socrates isn't known to have existed, and could have just been a fictional voice for Plato to express controversial ideas through - but the theist you were replying to didn't list Socrates
(although many people see Buddha in the same light)
(although many people see Buddha in the same light)
Also I would take issue with biblical inerrancy.
I'd understand if propagating a lie would reap some sort of benefit but why lie if you would be hated, hunted down and executed? Do you suppose Christianity would have survived the first four hundred years if every time an apostle spoke they were proven wrong by other eye witnesses? It was a boom and it divided families and friends. The records and scriptures dated back to within a couple of decades of Christ's death and there wasn't just one copy. All the copies they found were separate eye witnesses accounts agreeing with eachother. All you atheists like to claim your science backs your beliefs. If that was true there would be no debate. The problem is science backs both sides of the argument in some situations and everything else is assumed to be true. History is on the side of Christians, but you choose to ignore it. There are cave drawings with humans living with dinosaurs but hey, let's skip that, it must have been a coincidence. You are the ones who are being intellectually dishonest. If you are truly here to learn your closed minds are a hindrance. They keep other knowledge out and your opinion in.
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Just calm down a second buddy, we are all friends here Don't "All you atheists like to claim your science backs your beliefs." us
To be a sceptic (a little different than being an atheist) means you care if your beliefs are backed by science, we don't claim that all our beliefs are supported by scientific evidence, we just strive towards that goal.
Don't "All you atheists like to claim your science backs your beliefs." us To be a sceptic (a little different than being an atheist) means you care if your beliefs are backed by science, we don't claim that all our beliefs are supported by scientific evidence, we just strive towards that goal.
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I promise my mind is open, and if there are really cave drawings of dinosaurs, that would be interesting (because all the fossils are over 65 million years old), I'm simply not aware of any. You might be thinking of the Akor Wat carving in Vietnam, which is only considered to be a stegosaurus by creationists. Or do you mean the Ica stones? Those are known to be fakes
But ya I'm totally open minded if you have real evidence that hasn't been utterly confirmed to be fakes, there'd be no more exiting an idea from a scientific point of view than the kind of things you believe, I would be absolutely thrilled if you could convince me any are true I won't be trying to prove you wrong, I'll be trying to prove you right - just with healthily sceptical standards of evidence
But ya I'm totally open minded if you have real evidence that hasn't been utterly confirmed to be fakes, there'd be no more exiting an idea from a scientific point of view than the kind of things you believe, I would be absolutely thrilled if you could convince me any are true
I won't be trying to prove you wrong, I'll be trying to prove you right - just with healthily sceptical standards of evidence
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(and of course, verifiable cave drawings of dinosaurs wouldn't prove God or biblical creationism, it could only ever prove that not all dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago! There have been a few 'living dinosaurs' found, species thought to have died out millions of years ago, like the deep sea fish coelacanth. But it would CERTAINLY be exciting, large reptiles like dinosaurs still alive just thousands of years ago. We could even get dino DNA!)
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Dino DNA is like the holy grail of sci-fi nerds. We are scientifically on the verge of being able to recreate extinct species from DNA samples. Within about 3 years the leading lab is going to be bringing back an extinct species of frog, is late breaking news within the last 2 weeks. It's a pretty recently extinct species, but it's most of the technological gap covered, it will only be a decade or two before we can bring back the woolly mammoth So far we haven't found any intact DNA older than about 400 thousand years old. Still, that window includes awesome animals we could bring back, like Australian megafauna, or the dodo. There's a bit of argument on if it's worth spending the money though, it may be ultimately a useless project even from a biodiversity point of view. Science nerd dreams come true though
So far we haven't found any intact DNA older than about 400 thousand years old. Still, that window includes awesome animals we could bring back, like Australian megafauna, or the dodo. There's a bit of argument on if it's worth spending the money though, it may be ultimately a useless project even from a biodiversity point of view. Science nerd dreams come true though 
First of all I'm already quite calm. Secondly when atheists come on a Christian Site and start picking apart your core beliefs and inferring that we are all uneducated simpletons, it is insulting. It's like having a house guest tell you your decor is bad and your cooking is lousy. If you are really interested in the many examples of unexplained ancient dinosaur art, Google it. I think it's hilarious that you doubt any validity to Jesus who walked the earth a couple thousand years ago and you are absolutely sure that dinosaurs existed 65 million years ago. Tell me how do some skeletons fossilize while others decompose? How can you be sure the fossil record is even somewhat accurate other than somebody you trust telling you so? Is the earth billions of years old or is it just assumed because that's how long it would take to get this way if everything evolved from nothing? Your faith in science to me requires less proof than Christianity.
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>"when atheists come on a Christian Site and start picking apart your core beliefs and inferring that we are all uneducated simpletons, it is insulting"
- I'm sorry! I really am a caring person and I don't want to insult you.
>"Tell me how do some skeletons fossilize while others decompose?"
- Fossilization takes rare conditions. Animals that die in the open will decompose, animals trapped in landslides will fossilize (and several other similar situations like tar pits).
>" Is the earth billions of years old or is it just assumed because that's how long it would take to get this way if everything evolved from nothing?"
- Radioactive decay science which I have only a mediocre involvement with dates the age of the Earth, and astronomy which I'm intimately familiar with dates the universe to billions of years old And the age of the Earth reported by radioactive decay physicists (and tectonic geologists actually) match the detailed cosmological understanding of how solar systems form from the collapse of interstellar clouds. It's not assumed to allow the timescale necessary for huge evolutionary changes in biology at all, sciences outside of biology confirm huge timescales completely independently. We can see galaxies billions of light years away - the light hitting our telescopes left those galaxies billions of years ago, we don't see them as they are, we see images of them as they were back then.
- I'm sorry! I really am a caring person and I don't want to insult you.
>"Tell me how do some skeletons fossilize while others decompose?"
- Fossilization takes rare conditions. Animals that die in the open will decompose, animals trapped in landslides will fossilize (and several other similar situations like tar pits).
>" Is the earth billions of years old or is it just assumed because that's how long it would take to get this way if everything evolved from nothing?"
- Radioactive decay science which I have only a mediocre involvement with dates the age of the Earth, and astronomy which I'm intimately familiar with dates the universe to billions of years old
And the age of the Earth reported by radioactive decay physicists (and tectonic geologists actually) match the detailed cosmological understanding of how solar systems form from the collapse of interstellar clouds. It's not assumed to allow the timescale necessary for huge evolutionary changes in biology at all, sciences outside of biology confirm huge timescales completely independently. We can see galaxies billions of light years away - the light hitting our telescopes left those galaxies billions of years ago, we don't see them as they are, we see images of them as they were back then.Hello sir! I'm a happy atheist too! There are some remarkable and intelligent people here who don't just blindly quoute scripture, they will also offer valid opinion and explanations behind it too which is very interesting and insightful.... Which I aim to take full advantage of during my time here
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Hello sir! I'm a happy atheist too! There are some remarkable and intelligent people here who don't just blindly quoute scripture, they will also offer valid opinion and explanations behind it too which is very interesting and insightful.... Which I aim to take full advantage of during my time here
T
This life is so complicated and we just want the truth right? So my quest began. I wanted proof like you. But no one has ever seen God or will see God in this lifetime. We wouldn't be able to look at him because of his greatness. So, that proof goes out the window. But he created us with more than one sense. Even though I can't see him, I can feel him. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the father of lights. So everytime I see the sunset, feel the ocean breeze on my face, or just get that I indescribable peace that overwhelms me, I know it's God. Because I can't duplicate it myself, they are gifts! I started reading many godly books, that were edifying and uplifting. The first one was "Heaven is for Real" by Todd Burpo. Its about a child's experience of heaven through a near death experience. He came back telling of his experience with Jesus. A child has no reason to try to persuade someone to believe in Jesus and God, he was simply telling what happened to him. To make a long story short, he had seen Jesus for himself and knew that drawing and paintings he would see were not correct. One day the little boys father has been sent an email of a painting of Jesus. It was pulled up on his computer and the little boy stops dead in his tracks and said " Daddy, that's Jesus!" It had been painted by an 8 year old little girl whose mother was an atheist. She had never been taught about Jesus, God or heaven. You must see for yourself the paintings that were truly by the hand of God, he simply used a child who believed. Her name is Akiane kramarik. All you have to do is google her name. The truth speaks for itself. Hope this has been inspiring. It surely touched my soul and moved my faith to greater heights. The pure joy that we have that this world is not all there is!!
Feel free to Pm me with questions or add me on skype if you want to ask things - Stuey727.
A book that may answer some questions is Lee Strobel's 'The Case for Christ' - although from what you have said you may have done more research than this book. If you are looking for evidence, have you heard of John Dixon? He lectures at a uni in Sydney, I'd recommend some of his history.
A book that may answer some questions is Lee Strobel's 'The Case for Christ' - although from what you have said you may have done more research than this book. If you are looking for evidence, have you heard of John Dixon? He lectures at a uni in Sydney, I'd recommend some of his history.
I suppose that your first name is Luke so I hope you don't mind me calling you such. I would like to encourage you to continue in your search for truth no matter where you find yourself! Though, I must admit, I do hope you find Christianity as your ultimate home--I wouldn't be much of one if I didn't! I also thank you for your outreach to find truth in a place in which you should be able to go and inquire Christianity; namely a gathering place of Christians! Finally, I would like to apologize on behalf of some of the posters in this forum for their responses. I implore you to please forgive them, for they ought to know better!
I'm not a big forum guy, so forgive my late responses in the future. I'm usually on the chat, so if you want to talk there too, I welcome you to do so! Having said all that, let's move on.
I want to be clear, I do not question your motives on this site, but I do have some inquiries about your personal journey of seeking truth.
1) Other than Christian chat/forums such as this one, where else have you searched for answers to your inquiries?
2) Are you familiar with apologetics?
3) Through your ten year pursuit of investigating whether or not Christianity is true, have you encountered the works submitted by Alvin Plantinga (who deals with the logical problem of evil, relation between science and religion, and most known for his argument against naturalism), N.T Wright (who has written on many books concerning Jesus and his resurrection, J.P. Moreland (who is a jack of all trades, so to speak), Richard Swinburne (a renound Christian philosopher who deals with the existence of God, morality, etc), William Lane Craig (who is quite popular among Christians and uses similar arguments throughout his career), Gary Habermas (who specializes specifically with the resurrection of Jesus), and many more!
I suppose, after you have answered these questions, we can begin discussing what you disagree with regarding some of these men's work in philosophy of religion, philosophy, science; so on and so fourth. I look forward to discussing with you these things, though, I am not well versed in science. My hope is that you can educate not only me, but perhaps other viewers of this post!
High regards,
Brandon
I'm not a big forum guy, so forgive my late responses in the future. I'm usually on the chat, so if you want to talk there too, I welcome you to do so! Having said all that, let's move on.
I want to be clear, I do not question your motives on this site, but I do have some inquiries about your personal journey of seeking truth.
1) Other than Christian chat/forums such as this one, where else have you searched for answers to your inquiries?
2) Are you familiar with apologetics?
3) Through your ten year pursuit of investigating whether or not Christianity is true, have you encountered the works submitted by Alvin Plantinga (who deals with the logical problem of evil, relation between science and religion, and most known for his argument against naturalism), N.T Wright (who has written on many books concerning Jesus and his resurrection, J.P. Moreland (who is a jack of all trades, so to speak), Richard Swinburne (a renound Christian philosopher who deals with the existence of God, morality, etc), William Lane Craig (who is quite popular among Christians and uses similar arguments throughout his career), Gary Habermas (who specializes specifically with the resurrection of Jesus), and many more!
I suppose, after you have answered these questions, we can begin discussing what you disagree with regarding some of these men's work in philosophy of religion, philosophy, science; so on and so fourth. I look forward to discussing with you these things, though, I am not well versed in science. My hope is that you can educate not only me, but perhaps other viewers of this post!
High regards,
Brandon
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