The rapture
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6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)
#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the resurrection of the just/rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.
1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.
#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.
2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.
#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.
#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the resurrection of the just/rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.
1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.
#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.
2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.
#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.
watchmen
we have to know who the scripture is talking about before we can intrepet the true meaning of the scriptures.
most folks fails to recognize who these verses are talking about , " and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other."
the elect are not us Christains but rather the jews let me give you a verse to show this to be true, 2ti 2:10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
also we find :
Ro 11:25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.Ro 11:26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:Ro 11:27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.Ro 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
see here concerning the Gospel. the jews were our enemies . but as far as they being the elect they were blessed for the father's sakeso when He gather's His elect He is gathering just the jews. most bible scholars will tell us that Matthew is written for the jews, that the gospel was intended for the Jews first. some say the first 14 chapters others say all of matthew was just for the jews. thus we have in order rev saying the Bride is already there through a Pre-trib, only because they are already there before the first resurrection see when the rapture takes place both living and the dead are raised. so it's not really a resurrection for that would be just dead people, then rev , tells us that the first resurrection is for the tribulation saints who have not taken the mark of the beast and then the rest of the dead which is matt. 24 is raised after the 1000 year reign.
Re 19:7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.Re 19:8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
The Bride/the Church has already been judged at this time we know this by her having her clean white linen
Re 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.Re 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
This is the tribulations saints for they refused the mark of the beast. then we have the ones raised in matt 24
Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
So according to scriptures I will have to say
pre-trib
we have to know who the scripture is talking about before we can intrepet the true meaning of the scriptures.
most folks fails to recognize who these verses are talking about , " and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other."
the elect are not us Christains but rather the jews let me give you a verse to show this to be true, 2ti 2:10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
also we find :
Ro 11:25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.Ro 11:26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:Ro 11:27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.Ro 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
see here concerning the Gospel. the jews were our enemies . but as far as they being the elect they were blessed for the father's sakeso when He gather's His elect He is gathering just the jews. most bible scholars will tell us that Matthew is written for the jews, that the gospel was intended for the Jews first. some say the first 14 chapters others say all of matthew was just for the jews. thus we have in order rev saying the Bride is already there through a Pre-trib, only because they are already there before the first resurrection see when the rapture takes place both living and the dead are raised. so it's not really a resurrection for that would be just dead people, then rev , tells us that the first resurrection is for the tribulation saints who have not taken the mark of the beast and then the rest of the dead which is matt. 24 is raised after the 1000 year reign.
Re 19:7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.Re 19:8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
The Bride/the Church has already been judged at this time we know this by her having her clean white linen
Re 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.Re 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
This is the tribulations saints for they refused the mark of the beast. then we have the ones raised in matt 24
Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
So according to scriptures I will have to say
pre-trib
C
Mr, the "jews" of the Old Testament are first introduced in 2 Kings 16:6 and they are the enemies of Israel and at war with Israel's allies- Syria, it is still the same today, the main problem facing Christians is the deception of the 'synagogue of Satan' who pass themselves off as Israel, however it is biblically and historically accurate to know that the "jews" are decended from Esau/Edom, they are anti-christs and their theology is Babylonian Talmudism, they have an interpretation of scripture called 'Torah' it is jewish, but that is not the Old Testament, they do not worship the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac, they're Abraham's seed by Esau, as Jesus told us. They are anti-christs like the muslims are anti-christs, the muslims are not as cunning as the jews but anti-christs nontheless and they to have their version of holy scripture; the Koran. The jewish old testament has unfortunately become the testament of decieved christians and this goes back to when they first copied the greek Septuagint into Masoretic Hebrew which is a mongrel language invented by Masorete priests in around 500 AD, these Masoretes were the decendants of the Pharisees and jewish scribes, none of them were Israelites. Israelites and "jews" are always given seperate identities in the Bible, it is clear even from the corrupt ones if you study them.
Mr, your understanding of the words "gentiles", "jews" and "Israel" are all woefully inadequate, but ignorance abounds these days since the fathers fell asleep.
Mr, your understanding of the words "gentiles", "jews" and "Israel" are all woefully inadequate, but ignorance abounds these days since the fathers fell asleep.
J
Post-trib
(as the tribulation ended in 70AD)
Matthew 23:36
I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
Matthew 24:34
I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Mark 13:30
I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Luke 21:32
"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
oh and these two go together:
Luke 11:50 - 52
Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
Revelation 18:24
In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth."
Conclusion:
All of the book of Revelation
has all ready been fufilled before the Apostle John died.
(except for the Jesus coming back and judging the living and the dead part)
(as the tribulation ended in 70AD)
Matthew 23:36
I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
Matthew 24:34
I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Mark 13:30
I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Luke 21:32
"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
oh and these two go together:
Luke 11:50 - 52
Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
Revelation 18:24
In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth."
Conclusion:
All of the book of Revelation
has all ready been fufilled before the Apostle John died.
(except for the Jesus coming back and judging the living and the dead part)
Ok this is very confusing.
The Post-trib Christians believe that everyone (believers and unbelievers) will experience the Great tribulation. Am I correct?
In contrast, the Pre-trib Christians believe that only Christians will not experience the tribulation because the rapture would have occurred, right?
Well I believe in the Pre-trib rapture because:
1) I do not want to experience the wrath to come.
2) When the rapture occurs, the dead in Christ will rise, the believers on earth will meet Jesus and participate in the Marriage supper of the Lamb for 7 years while the tribulation is occurring, the second part of the second coming of Christ will occur, then the Millennium reign after the 7 years. Although during the tribulation, there will still be people (the tribulation saints) who will stand for God (those people missed the first rapture due to sin in their lives) and not accept the mark of the beast “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath” (Rev 14:9,10). If one accepts the mark then they are destined for hell, but those who endure will be raptured during the second part.
3) If we are all going to face the tribulation, why will God say in Luke 21: 34-36 "34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
If we will all face the turmoil, He would not tell us to watch and pray to escape the wrath of the antichrist. "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev 3:10); He would not say that if the saints will face the tribulation.
The Post-trib view is a misconception.
The Post-trib Christians believe that everyone (believers and unbelievers) will experience the Great tribulation. Am I correct?
In contrast, the Pre-trib Christians believe that only Christians will not experience the tribulation because the rapture would have occurred, right?
Well I believe in the Pre-trib rapture because:
1) I do not want to experience the wrath to come.
2) When the rapture occurs, the dead in Christ will rise, the believers on earth will meet Jesus and participate in the Marriage supper of the Lamb for 7 years while the tribulation is occurring, the second part of the second coming of Christ will occur, then the Millennium reign after the 7 years. Although during the tribulation, there will still be people (the tribulation saints) who will stand for God (those people missed the first rapture due to sin in their lives) and not accept the mark of the beast “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath” (Rev 14:9,10). If one accepts the mark then they are destined for hell, but those who endure will be raptured during the second part.
3) If we are all going to face the tribulation, why will God say in Luke 21: 34-36 "34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
If we will all face the turmoil, He would not tell us to watch and pray to escape the wrath of the antichrist. "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev 3:10); He would not say that if the saints will face the tribulation.
The Post-trib view is a misconception.
C
You don't understand the word "generation" or how Jesus is using it and how it is biblically applied. It means if you study the Biblical Koine Greek of the New Testament; offspring of a certain kind proceeding on, so to 'generate' - words change over time that is why we can only know God's word by tracing each and every word all the way back. When Jesus says "generation" He means the offspring of those He spoke to in Mat. will not pass away, it refers to a racial decendant, like "gene", "genus" "gentile" it all relates to those of the same tribe. That tribe will not pass away, that geneolgy.
AD 70???? The Israelites had already left, only the "Jews" remained, the Temple was rent asunder and the new Covenant applied as per Hebrews 8:812, the House of Israel and the House of Judah were all converted each and every one long before a AD 70, they had already gone to the "ethnos" the gentiles who were as the word means "of their tribe" the same tribe, the "Jews" were left behind because they were not Israel, same as in the Assyrian captivity and the Babylonian, the "Jews" stayed behind while Israel was taken into captivity, that because the "Jews" have no covenant with God, being decended from Esau/Edom they have no Covenant, their decendant lost when they mongrelized with the canaanites.
J
"1) I do not want to experience the wrath to come."
is not a good reason,
you need to be willing to take up your cross and follow Jesus.
You need to be willing to drink from the same cup as Jesus drinks,
and be baptised with the same baptism as Jesus was baptised if you want to be saved.
not avoid suffering
If suffereing is good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for me.
is not a good reason,
you need to be willing to take up your cross and follow Jesus.
You need to be willing to drink from the same cup as Jesus drinks,
and be baptised with the same baptism as Jesus was baptised if you want to be saved.
not avoid suffering
If suffereing is good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for me.
D
Thaddaeus' pre-trib rapture does NOT account for any LIVING bodies. Did U know that Revelation 20:8 is talking about George "Dubya" Bush? Many people don't know about the conspiracy conspirators (group of deceitful liars)!!! Bush is a 33rd degree skull & bones freemason who was "knighted" into the title of magog (to make war with the saints)!!! Also... PRE-trib is impossible because tribulation returns with every government (mountain upon waters [people]). The catholic church killed more people than hitler during the papal inquisition!!! It was publicised (written) that the inquisition was to suppress heresy! I don't believe that because the highest vatican authority is derived from the law of the caesars (when papal rome was still pagan rome). The devil loves to use government authority to force God's people to break His command (Esther 3, Daniel 3 & 6, Act 12:21,22). Those who refuse are the TRUE saints.
D
I in no way suggested that this went unnoticed.
As a side note... Pope John Paul II visited my city (Toronto) in 2002 for "World Youth Day". I didn't attend, bu I was told that after he left... the area where the gathering had taken place flooded!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUH4fu4NheQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4QHrDYX9KI&feature=related
As a side note... Pope John Paul II visited my city (Toronto) in 2002 for "World Youth Day". I didn't attend, bu I was told that after he left... the area where the gathering had taken place flooded!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUH4fu4NheQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4QHrDYX9KI&feature=related
sir I am sorry but I think you have been under some teaching of man that has tried to come up with some strange teaching so that they can say I am the only one that sees this truth about the Bible so that puts me head over everyone else, the jews in the old testament were part of the Israel's tribes God's chosen/elect people. they were of the tribe of judah. to say that judah was a enemy of God is just crazy talk. yeah in your reference verse, it appears to seem so, but it is not uncommon to see the twelve tribes of God's chosen/elect to war amongst themselves. some scholars say that God's chosen/elect people living in Israel were knowns as Israelite and all of God's chosen/elect living outside of Israel were called Jews, but this does not make them Anti-christ as you would say. your verse only prove that even in the old testament they couldn't get along with their kinsmen even as we today can't. what do you teach on these verses:
Ps 78:65Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine.Ps 78:66And he smote his enemies in the hinder parts: he put them to a perpetual reproach.Ps 78:67Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim:Ps 78:68But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.Ps 78:69And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.Ps 78:70He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:
sir with your understanding of the term "Jew" then there can't be any Christians are either all Christians are anti-christs :
Isa 65:9And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Mt 2:1Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,Mt 2:2Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
the Bible lumps people into two classes the Jews and the Gentiles, with in these classes we have the elect, the saved and the lost. the elect will be saved for they are The chosen ones of God "all Israel shall be saved". the saved are us Christians, and of course the lost are the ones that have their part in the lake of fire. How else do we explain this verse, paul say the the elect aren't christians, for they need to obtain salvation yet.2ti 2:10Therefore I endure all things for the ELECT's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Ac 21:21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the JEWS which are among the GENTILES to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Ro 3:9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both JEWS and GENTILES, that they are all under sin;
Ro 3:29Is he the God of the JEWS only? is he not also of the GENTILES? Yes, of the GENTILES also:
Ro 9:24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the JEWS only, but also of the GENTILES?
1co 10:32Give none offence, neither to the JEWS, nor to the GENTILES, nor to the church of God:
1co 12:13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be JEWS or GENTILES, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Ga 2:14But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of GENTILES, and not as do the JEWS, why compellest thou the GENTILES to live as do the JEWS?
Ga 2:15We who are JEWS by nature, and not sinners of the GENTILES,
Ps 78:65Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine.Ps 78:66And he smote his enemies in the hinder parts: he put them to a perpetual reproach.Ps 78:67Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim:Ps 78:68But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.Ps 78:69And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.Ps 78:70He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:
sir with your understanding of the term "Jew" then there can't be any Christians are either all Christians are anti-christs :
Isa 65:9And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Mt 2:1Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,Mt 2:2Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
the Bible lumps people into two classes the Jews and the Gentiles, with in these classes we have the elect, the saved and the lost. the elect will be saved for they are The chosen ones of God "all Israel shall be saved". the saved are us Christians, and of course the lost are the ones that have their part in the lake of fire. How else do we explain this verse, paul say the the elect aren't christians, for they need to obtain salvation yet.2ti 2:10Therefore I endure all things for the ELECT's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Ac 21:21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the JEWS which are among the GENTILES to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Ro 3:9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both JEWS and GENTILES, that they are all under sin;
Ro 3:29Is he the God of the JEWS only? is he not also of the GENTILES? Yes, of the GENTILES also:
Ro 9:24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the JEWS only, but also of the GENTILES?
1co 10:32Give none offence, neither to the JEWS, nor to the GENTILES, nor to the church of God:
1co 12:13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be JEWS or GENTILES, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Ga 2:14But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of GENTILES, and not as do the JEWS, why compellest thou the GENTILES to live as do the JEWS?
Ga 2:15We who are JEWS by nature, and not sinners of the GENTILES,
A
We need to be careful trying to create a time line that will reveal the day and the hour of Christs' return Matthew 25:13. Even in the pre trib/post trib arguments we tend to argue that we know more then our Lord does, Mark 13:32-33
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.
Christs command for me, is not to figure out when He is coming, but to be ready for when He does.
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.
Christs command for me, is not to figure out when He is coming, but to be ready for when He does.
I am not going to say what I want to you, about what i think our your prophecy about Mr. Bush but sir if you would even take time to think about what you said , it would make you laugh also. look at the scripture right before rev 20:8 this is after the first resurrection so you are saying that the first resurrection has already happened? and it is also after the thousand year reign so you are saying that, that has also already happened, or either that mr. bush will live for another thousands years. HAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHA !!!!!!!!!!!! HAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am Sorry!!!!
Re 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.Re 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,Re 20:8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
thank you so much I needed a good laugh!!
Re 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.Re 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,Re 20:8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
thank you so much I needed a good laugh!!
Ummm....for a Christian to face the Great tribulation (after running the Christian race on earth) is not “taking up your cross and following Christ”. No believer will experience the wrath to come. I suggest you read the bible thoroughly and ask the Holy Spirit for a better interpretation not your own opinion.
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