Trophimus in 2 Timothy 4:20
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In James we read it is actually the people that pray for health that should have faith, not the sick person. And Elizabeth there we read that the sickness as well as the sin would be removed... But there is a condition...
Read this, and see how God CANNOT say no to healing done this way.... The only NO to healing is LACK OF FAITH FROM ELDERS!...
WOW!
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Who else see that God will NEVER say no to a faithful group of elders? I believe this with my whole heart! Seen it happen before, obviously helps.
Read this, and see how God CANNOT say no to healing done this way.... The only NO to healing is LACK OF FAITH FROM ELDERS!...
WOW!
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Who else see that God will NEVER say no to a faithful group of elders? I believe this with my whole heart! Seen it happen before, obviously helps.
How come Jesus didn't heal the Chinese? He could have. Oh noes! Therefor, Jesus didn't do any miracles at all.
Stick to scripture.
There is an argument against modern miracles in scripture, and you're not using it.
Stick to scripture.
There is an argument against modern miracles in scripture, and you're not using it.
Until I came across this scripture, I always thought the ceasing happened when the apostles died. That they had their gifts until the point of death. I never really thought they could fade, and they were not able to perform miracles as often as they first could.
I am also looking at how they did cease. Did they cease upon death or did they fade. It may seem insignificant to some to ponder it, but if I am wrong in my understanding I want to correct it.
Unless you know what the Church of Christ actually believes then it is best not to comment on it. I do not believe in the ceasing of gifts because I attend the Church of Christ. This belief isn't restricted to just the CoC. There some branches of the CoC they do still believe in spiritual gifts btw. Before you try to slam a persons belief then at least know what they do believe. Otherwise you look like an ignorant troublemaker.
J
Depending upon which branch, the Churches of Chrst (proper that is) deny the doctrine of Original Sin, and are fiercely anti-calvinist. They hate monergism.
They have beeen enamored with 19th century ideals, rather than scripture. This thread is just a propoganda thread.
Not a problem, I haven't said this.
I think you miss the point of my post. My post wasn't a criticism of cessationism. I am generally cessationist (though not totally, I believe God intervenes as I am a theist and not a diest).
Maybe the DoC, which is the liberal wing of the Restorationist denominations.
I wasn't criticizing cessationism. I much prefer it over the Benny Hinn types.
I am by far ignorant, that I confess. For I know but a miniscule amount, compared to an omniscient God who knows all. As regards troublemaking, I have done nothing but sin all my days. There is not one iota of righteousness within me. I will let you proclaim yourself as righteous though.
They have beeen enamored with 19th century ideals, rather than scripture. This thread is just a propoganda thread.
Not a problem, I haven't said this.
I think you miss the point of my post. My post wasn't a criticism of cessationism. I am generally cessationist (though not totally, I believe God intervenes as I am a theist and not a diest).
Maybe the DoC, which is the liberal wing of the Restorationist denominations.
I wasn't criticizing cessationism. I much prefer it over the Benny Hinn types.
I am by far ignorant, that I confess. For I know but a miniscule amount, compared to an omniscient God who knows all. As regards troublemaking, I have done nothing but sin all my days. There is not one iota of righteousness within me. I will let you proclaim yourself as righteous though.
There is a view (Cornelius Stam in his Acts Dispensationally Considered) that holds that Acts was just a much of a telling of the waning and eventual postponement of the promised Kingdom to the Jews due to their overall unbelief than it had to do with the growth of the Church. Part of that 'waning ' involved the waning of the gifts..
Which is a prime example of you taking a comment out of context. Did you not even see the comment I actually replied to?
Yes, God can heal anyone he wants. He does at HIS will. Not ours. He can do whatever his will is. He is all powerful.
I NEVER said "he can, but doesn't" as if he doesn't want to. He will not do things that would go against his Word. He never promised that the Holy Spirit would physically heal every person on the planet. EG was correct in saying he can't heal everyone because we would never die...because that isn't His purpose.
Again, please do not take comments out of context. You came in this thread with intentions or starting something. Taking comments out of context, and condescending a person's church belief and congregation(which doesn't even pertain to this thread) is childish, and uncalled for.
If you would like to discuss the actual topic it would be appreciated. If not then our discussion is over.
Yes, God can heal anyone he wants. He does at HIS will. Not ours. He can do whatever his will is. He is all powerful.
I NEVER said "he can, but doesn't" as if he doesn't want to. He will not do things that would go against his Word. He never promised that the Holy Spirit would physically heal every person on the planet. EG was correct in saying he can't heal everyone because we would never die...because that isn't His purpose.
Again, please do not take comments out of context. You came in this thread with intentions or starting something. Taking comments out of context, and condescending a person's church belief and congregation(which doesn't even pertain to this thread) is childish, and uncalled for.
If you would like to discuss the actual topic it would be appreciated. If not then our discussion is over.
There you go again taking part of a comment, and making something of it that it never was intended. You do realize the who reason for this thread is why is it that Trophimus was not healed miraculously by Paul don't you?
Who is talking about catholics in this thread? Yet again you take comments out of context and blow stuff out of proportion. Never said one should speak against something they don't believe. Derailing a thread, and attacking someone about it when it doesnt even pertain to the topic is the problem....
You have yet to discuss the actual topic. You have derailed this thread long enough. Goodbye
Who is talking about catholics in this thread? Yet again you take comments out of context and blow stuff out of proportion. Never said one should speak against something they don't believe. Derailing a thread, and attacking someone about it when it doesnt even pertain to the topic is the problem....
You have yet to discuss the actual topic. You have derailed this thread long enough. Goodbye
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Ok I'll amend it..
Here I'll give you six angles at the debate...
1. Well he obviously lacked faith and couldn't get his healing. Paul left him sick.
2. God never heals ever. So duh. He's left sick.
3. He clearly had sin in his life and hadn't repented yet. SO yeah he had to be left sick.
4. It wasn't God's time to heal him.
5. It's a sign the gifts of healing were fading out.
6. Some other option where they are left sick because the apostle can't heal at will, and they are left sick.
Edit that--->Now imagine all five of those perspectives arguing until they are repeating themselves, and adding 50 pages to this thread.
To that---->Now imagine all six of those perspectives arguing until they are repeating themselves, and adding 50 pages to this thread.
Here I'll give you six angles at the debate...
1. Well he obviously lacked faith and couldn't get his healing. Paul left him sick.
2. God never heals ever. So duh. He's left sick.
3. He clearly had sin in his life and hadn't repented yet. SO yeah he had to be left sick.
4. It wasn't God's time to heal him.
5. It's a sign the gifts of healing were fading out.
6. Some other option where they are left sick because the apostle can't heal at will, and they are left sick.
Edit that--->Now imagine all five of those perspectives arguing until they are repeating themselves, and adding 50 pages to this thread.
To that---->Now imagine all six of those perspectives arguing until they are repeating themselves, and adding 50 pages to this thread.