Prayer of Renunciation

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danschance

Guest
Let me ask why Scripture commands us to test spirits within us unless we can get an evil one?

Beth, a personal friend, attends the 1st Baptist church of Naples, FL., was counseling a young Baptist lady named Rachel who was in spiritual turmoil so Beth called me for advice. It seems Rachel was kneeling at the mourners bench one Sunday evening when a woman walked up behind her, laid hands on her and said, “Rachel, you will now speak in tongues” and sure enough Rachel did. Here is Beth's account of what happened next:

“Rachel loves the Lord, reads her Bible every day, and could speak in tongues at will. I asked Rachel if she had ever had her "tongue" spirit tested as commanded by 1John 4:1-3: (excerpts) . . .

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God . . . Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the Antichrist . . .”

Rachel conceded that she never had her spirit tested like that, but would like to have it done. We met a couple of days later in a prayer room at the church. After a short time of prayer, I asked Rachel to start speaking in tongues.

While Rachel was doing so, I said in a quiet voice, "Spirit, in the name of the Lord Jesus, declare Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." This spirit did not respond directly, but Rachel started speaking louder in tongues.

Again I said, "Spirit, in the name of the Lord Jesus, declare Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." Again, this spirit did not acknowledge Jesus.

Now does it not strike you as strange, that a spirit (supposedly God's Holy Spirit) would not confess Jesus? It did me. So I said, "Don't you see, Rachel, that this spirit cannot be of the Lord? It refuses to confess Jesus."

To which Rachel replied, "But in my mind this spirit is saying, 'I am lord.' "

I was almost deceived by that declaration, but I had just called ES, an elder, to discuss my meeting with Rachel when he warned me that demons are cunning, and could say something like that. So·I pressed Rachel’s spirit with, "Spirit, are you the Lord who died on the Cross, was buried, rose on the third day, and now sits at the right hand of Authority on high?"

The spirit within Rachel shrieked out, "Nooooo!" Rachel's face contorted, and hissing and snarling, she fell off her chair. Her hands twisted into unnatural claw-like shapes. She curled into a fetal position and whimpered, "Please help me get rid of this thing." I phoned two friends experienced in deliverance and asked them to come assist me, and within an hour or so Rachel was completely free of that demon.

Are we now going to claim that Rachel wasn’t really a Christian or that her familiar spirit wasn’t really a demon? Please don’t make me laugh. I know those people personally; they weren’t lying and neither am I.

You have no quarrel with me. I know first hand that a Christian can be demonized. Futhermore you make perfect sense to me.

I find it odd that the bible is a complete work and yet so many questions left to the ambiguous. As i mentioned, some see "Once saved, always saved" and others do not. I make similar lists on other topics which we seem to go round and round on this forum. It just strikes me as odd.
 
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Therapon

Guest
Ellis, do you think the lady that touched Rachel and said speak in tongues was the culprit?
When I post an account like that, I try to be an honest reporter, not to editorialize or post an opinion. However, Rachel didn't suddenly start speaking in tongues all by herself.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
There is a heap of difference between theoretical theology and the reality of actually facing a demon. I'll just keep on helping those who ask, you guys keep on working on your theology, LOL.
Unfortunately that's what people say when they can't find biblical proof to support what they're doin.
And if the Bible doesn't support it, one probably shouldn't be doin it, let alone claiming the Lord wants it done...

What Jesus says about folks who thought they were really casting out demons in his name and doing his work, but in all reality weren't..

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
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i don't believe the Holy Spirit resided in Rachel to begin with.

If that was so then we are saying that demon have the power and that is not so the power is given over them.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
I know first hand that a Christian can be demonized. Futhermore you make perfect sense to me.
That's the problem.
First hand evidence is driving what is believed, taught and practiced.

This is what we call traditions of men.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
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I don't doubt your story other than what i shared above.

When I post an account like that, I try to be an honest reporter, not to editorialize or post an opinion. However, Rachel didn't suddenly start speaking in tongues all by herself.
 
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danschance

Guest
Unfortunately that's what people say when they can't find biblical proof to support what they're doin.
And if the Bible doesn't support it, one probably shouldn't be doin it, let alone claiming the Lord wants it done...

What Jesus says about folks who thought they were really casting out demons in his name and doing his work, but in all reality weren't..
What scriptures can you post that support your theories?
 
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1still_waters

Guest
What scriptures can you post that support your theories?
What Biblical proof do I have to support that Christians aren't bound by demons?
I already gave that a couple times.
 
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djness

Guest
Let me ask why Scripture commands us to test spirits within us unless we can get an evil one?

Beth, a personal friend, attends the 1st Baptist church of Naples, FL., was counseling a young Baptist lady named Rachel who was in spiritual turmoil so Beth called me for advice. It seems Rachel was kneeling at the mourners bench one Sunday evening when a woman walked up behind her, laid hands on her and said, “Rachel, you will now speak in tongues” and sure enough Rachel did. Here is Beth's account of what happened next:

“Rachel loves the Lord, reads her Bible every day, and could speak in tongues at will. I asked Rachel if she had ever had her "tongue" spirit tested as commanded by 1John 4:1-3: (excerpts) . . .

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God . . . Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the Antichrist . . .”

Rachel conceded that she never had her spirit tested like that, but would like to have it done. We met a couple of days later in a prayer room at the church. After a short time of prayer, I asked Rachel to start speaking in tongues.

While Rachel was doing so, I said in a quiet voice, "Spirit, in the name of the Lord Jesus, declare Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." This spirit did not respond directly, but Rachel started speaking louder in tongues.

Again I said, "Spirit, in the name of the Lord Jesus, declare Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." Again, this spirit did not acknowledge Jesus.

Now does it not strike you as strange, that a spirit (supposedly God's Holy Spirit) would not confess Jesus? It did me. So I said, "Don't you see, Rachel, that this spirit cannot be of the Lord? It refuses to confess Jesus."

To which Rachel replied, "But in my mind this spirit is saying, 'I am lord.' "

I was almost deceived by that declaration, but I had just called ES, an elder, to discuss my meeting with Rachel when he warned me that demons are cunning, and could say something like that. So·I pressed Rachel’s spirit with, "Spirit, are you the Lord who died on the Cross, was buried, rose on the third day, and now sits at the right hand of Authority on high?"

The spirit within Rachel shrieked out, "Nooooo!" Rachel's face contorted, and hissing and snarling, she fell off her chair. Her hands twisted into unnatural claw-like shapes. She curled into a fetal position and whimpered, "Please help me get rid of this thing." I phoned two friends experienced in deliverance and asked them to come assist me, and within an hour or so Rachel was completely free of that demon.

Are we now going to claim that Rachel wasn’t really a Christian or that her familiar spirit wasn’t really a demon? Please don’t make me laugh. I know those people personally; they weren’t lying and neither am I.
Satan has to ask for permission to do anything to a christian {Job,Simon}. This does not include inhabiting their body.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

God does not share with Satan, God did not go halves on the check that was paid for our souls, being the death of his Son Jesus Christ.

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

Your story is skeptical at best.

 
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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
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Luke 10

17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
verse 20 is not to be overlooked.
 
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Therapon

Guest
Satan has to ask for permission to do anything to a christian {Job,Simon}. This does not include inhabiting their body.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

God does not share with Satan, God did not go halves on the check that was paid for our souls, being the death of his Son Jesus Christ.

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

Your story is skeptical at best.

Skeptical to you, maybe, but it happened nonetheless.
 
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Therapon

Guest
What Biblical proof do I have to support that Christians aren't bound by demons?
I already gave that a couple times.
Now let me asl you a question. Do you believe that all the demons Jesus cast out in the New Testament were only in unsaved unbelievers? I suspecrt you do so prove it scripturally.
 
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Therapon

Guest
Unfortunately that's what people say when they can't find biblical proof to support what they're doin.
And if the Bible doesn't support it, one probably shouldn't be doin it, let alone claiming the Lord wants it done...

What Jesus says about folks who thought they were really casting out demons in his name and doing his work, but in all reality weren't..
Why do you think the Lord gave us a test for spirits, 1John 4:1-3, if the Church didn't need one?
 
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1still_waters

Guest
Now let me asl you a question. Do you believe that all the demons Jesus cast out in the New Testament were only in unsaved unbelievers? I suspecrt you do so prove it scripturally.
Believers can't be possessed/bound/demonized(How you define it.)

Why do I believe this?

Because of what the Bible says.
I feel like I'm repeating myself.
I am!
But here are some Bible verses.
Again.
Your question is just a silly way to avoid what the Bible is clear about concerning believers and demons.


Believers are delivered from the power of darkness, and transferred into his kingdom. Colossians 1:13
Believers are blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ. Ephesians 1:3
Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 1:13
The prince of the power of the air USED to be working in us. Ephesians 2:1-3
Believers are seated in the heavenly places in Christ. Ephesians 2:6
Believers are God's workmanship. Ephesians 2:10
Believers have a spirit of power love and a sound mind. 2 Tim 1:7
 
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1still_waters

Guest
Why do you think the Lord gave us a test for spirits, 1John 4:1-3, if the Church didn't need one?
Because 1 John 4
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

So we can test for false prophets.
False prophets are not believers.
Believers are not false prophets.
False prophets have demons.

 
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djness

Guest
Skeptical to you, maybe, but it happened nonetheless.
So if it NEVER happened in the bible but someone says it happen in the world currently are we to dismiss the bible?
 
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Therapon

Guest
Believers can't be possessed/bound/demonized (How you define it.) Why do I believe this? Because of what the Bible says.
I know you believe that, but with all due respect, out in the real world, it just isn't so.

Beth’s was not an isolated case. In fact, how I learned to help demonized Christians was through a marvelous books about freedom from demonic influence by the internationally recognized conservative theologian, Dr. Neil T. Anderson of Biola University. His book, “The Bondage Breaker,” has led literally thousands of oppressed Christians to freedom in Christ. In “Bondage Breaker” (over a million copies sold) and his follow-up book, “Released From Bondage,” are dozens of account of demonized Christians led to freedom, including an almost identical case of demonic deception through the counterfeit gift of "tongues." In fact, it was by reading this account in “The Bondage Breaker” that I was able to advise Beth on how to deal with the evil spirit within Rachel.

Though paraphrased, the incident below is recorded in: Dr. Neil T. Anderson, The Bondage Breaker, (Eugene, OR, Harvest House, 1990) pp159-160.

After a lengthy discussion about false prophets and teachers, Robert admitted, "I think my problems began when I failed to test the 'gifts' of tongues and prophecy conferred on me by false teachers. Not only was I deceived, but I have deceived others myself."

"Would you be willing to put your gift of tongues to the test?" Anderson asked. He assured Robert that he was interested in putting the spirit to the test, not Robert. Wanting to be free of deception and right with God, Robert said "Yes."

Anderson instructed Robert to begin praying aloud in his "spiritual language." As he began to chant an unintelligible prayer, Anderson said, "In the name of Christ, and in obedience to God's Word, I command you, spirit, to identify yourself." Alvin stopped in the middle of his chanting and said, "I am he."

At this point a novice may have been tempted to take off his shoes, thinking he was on holy ground. But Anderson continued the test: "Are you the 'he' who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, buried, raised on the third day, and who now sits at the right hand of the Father?"

Robert almost shouted the response: "No! Not he!" Anderson led Robert through a prayer renouncing Satan's activity in his life, and he was freed from that spirit.




 
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Therapon

Guest
Because 1 John 4
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

So we can test for false prophets.
False prophets are not believers.
Believers are not false prophets.
False prophets have demons.


LOL, testing false prophets in not what that verse commands. That's not what it says. It says we are to test the spirits. False prophets are the result of listening to false spirits, not the other way around.
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
“The Bondage Breaker,” has led literally thousands of oppressed Christians to freedom in Christ. In “Bondage Breaker”
Was the Messiah not able to look after His own? or is it that they had not been Baptized with the Holy Spirit to begin with?
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
...I'll just keep on helping those who ask, you guys keep on working on your theology...
I was not questioning your motive (which is a good one) for wanting to help people, but simply your method, for if our practices are not lined up against Scriptural truth, we will surely get into problems and not minister as the Lord Jesus would want us to and replace Scriptural truth with unscriptural man made traditions, even as the Scribes and Pharisees did...