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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I agree. You know the gospel. I think tho the understanding of Israel does cause
some rather big ramifications. Its leaven that has permeated the church. And has
had worldwide consequences. But besides that No big deal
lol. To this I agree. But I think it has ramifications and permeations from BOTH sides.. Not just those who may believe something like me, but take it to another level (dual covenant) How many people have died in jerusalem since ad 70 in the name of Christ, in the Name of Jehovah, and the name of allah??
A
Abiding
Guest
Yitzhak Ben Zvi former president of Israel and David Ben Gurion first prime minister, both stated on several occasions as late as 1929 that the [arab] peasants of Palestine were the descendants of the inhabitants of ancient Judea.
Yiddish language of the Jews of eastern europe - a germano-slavic language, which incorporated Hebrew words.
David Ben Gurion, Yitzhak Ben Zvi, Eretz Israel in the past and present 1918 [Yiddish] Jerusalem 1980 [Hebrew]
Yitzhak Ben Zvi Our population in the country, Executive Committee of the Union for Youth and the Jewish National Fund, Warsaw 1929 [Hebrew]
Schlomo Sand
Yiddish language of the Jews of eastern europe - a germano-slavic language, which incorporated Hebrew words.
David Ben Gurion, Yitzhak Ben Zvi, Eretz Israel in the past and present 1918 [Yiddish] Jerusalem 1980 [Hebrew]
Yitzhak Ben Zvi Our population in the country, Executive Committee of the Union for Youth and the Jewish National Fund, Warsaw 1929 [Hebrew]
Schlomo Sand
A
Abiding
Guest
Exactly men go from one extreme to another. Thats exactly what happened with a little "public relations" added.
Its extremely complicated now. Like never before we need to use the scriptures. Less we fall into this mess.
I actually see all truths and doctrines today is a matter of public opinion and which group looks best for me. ie cc forums.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I do not see it any different today that the 300 AD and beyond. The only difference is we are free to believe with no ramifications or fear based.. well depending on where you live.. I also do not see it any more extreme. the gospel is the same today as it was back then.. and will be hated by those who hate the gospel the same. if anything, today it is more free to go out.. but I think that is going to change soon..
and public opinion is dangerous.. the masses have been shown to be wrong since the beginning of time.. Very few in history have been showed to hold on to truth.. compared to the masses, even in Israel at its hayday.
public opinion curcified Christ if we look at it. and freed a murderer
You asked for NT scripture.
You were supplied with it.
You disagree with it and choose to twist its meaning into spiritual things when there is no indication at all that this should be done.
I'm afraid you lost all credibility with that one comment and I stopped reading this thread from that point as there is little purpose when you will just reply with long posts that ignore what the Bible says, pretending
In the last days many Jews will turn to Christ. There has always been a 'remnant' if you read the OT.
When Christ told the disciples
Who do you think those 12 tribes of Israel were?
I'm guessing you have some baseless nonsense already prepared...
Fulfilled eh. Let's see, an invisible Jesus standing on an invisible Mount of Olives with an invisible cleavage creating an invisible valley sometime in the invisible past?lol crossnote...you are funny.
Zech 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
fulfilled bud
[video=youtube;XxxMppPxXCw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxxMppPxXCw[/video]
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Dr. Ilan Pappe - Part 1
Uploaded on Jul 15, 2007
http://www.ilanpappe.org
The present dismal reality unfolding in the Middle East has clear historical roots and a journey into the past may help to illuminate what lies behind the destructive policies of Israel in both Palestine and Lebanon.
Zionism arrived in Palestine in the late 19th as a colonialist movement motivated by national impulses.
The colonisation of Palestine fitted well the interests and policies of the British Empire on the eve of the First World War.
With the backing of Britain, the colonisation project expanded, and became a solid presence on the land after the war and with the establishment of the British mandate in Palestine (which lasted between 1918 and 1948).
While this consolidation took place, the indigenous society underwent, like other societies in the rest of the Arab world, a steady process of establishing a national identity.
But with one difference. While the rest of the Arab world was shaping its political identity through the struggle against European colonialism, in Palestine nationalism meant asserting your collective identity against both an exploitative British colonialism and expansionist Zionism.
Thus, the conflict with Zionism was an additional burden. The pro-Zionist policy of the British mandate there naturally strained the relationship between Britain and the local Palestinian society.
This climaxed in a revolt in 1936 against both London and the expanding Zionist colonisation project.
At the end of November 1947, the UN offered to divide Palestine into two states almost equal in their territorial space. The Jews were only one third of the population by 1947 and most of them had arrived in Palestine only a few years earlier.
The categorical Palestinian refusal to go along with this deal, backed by the Arab League, allowed the Zionist leadership to plan carefully the next step. Between February 1947 and March 1948, a final plan for ethnic cleansing was prepared.
The Zionist leadership defined 80 percent of Palestine (Israel today without the West Bank) as the space for the future state.
This was an area in which one million Palestinians lived next to 600,000 Jews.
The idea was to uproot as many Palestinians as possible. From March 1948 until the end of that year the plan was implemented despite the attempt by some Arab states to oppose it, which failed.
Some 750,000 Palestinians were expelled, 531 villages were destroyed and 11 urban neighbourhoods demolished.
Half of Palestine's population was uprooted and half of its villages destroyed. The state of Israel was established in over 80 percent of Palestine, turning Palestinian villages into Jewish settlements and recreation parks, but allowing a small number of Palestinian to remain citizens in it.
The June 1967 war allowed Israel to take the remaining 20 percent of Palestine.
This seizure defeated in a way the ethnic ideology of the Zionist movement. Israel encompassed 100 percent of Palestine, but the state incorporated a large number of Palestinians, the people who Zionists made such an effort to expel in 1948.
The fact that Israel was let off easily in 1948, and not condemned for the ethnic cleansing it committed, encouraged it to ethnically cleanse a further 300,000 Palestinians from the West Bank and the Gaza strip.
~
i disagree with Pappe that Zionism is a "colonialist movement":
Colonialism is the establishment, exploitation, maintenance, acquisition and expansion of colonies in one territory by people from another territory
neither do i agree that The Jewish State is entirely an "apartheid" project either:
The crime of Apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime
my personal assessment of zionism and the effects of it - is that it is a cruel hoax on all involved, based on a falsified religio-racial heritage foisted upon generations of people from all over the world.
i believe this hoax was perpetrated by a small group of apostate Judaic reprobates form Biblical Judaism (from Christ's Day) following the rejection of Logos....and all who came into contact with the religion they devised have been harmed and deceived by it for thousands of years.
i believe the remedy is the preaching of the Gospel of salvation
and the education of deceived Christian, Jews and Muslims.
honesty and compassion is required for all.
in any case, we can't stop it by any means.....the end game of it is global dominion....the ultimate enemy is Jesus of Nazareth and the church.
that's what the bible declares.
just reading this in context makes it really clear who Jesus was speaking to; and what He was speaking about.
the wheat are Christians.
Matthew 13
Prophecy and Parables
34All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. 35This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:e
“I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Dr. Ilan Pappe - Part 1
Uploaded on Jul 15, 2007
http://www.ilanpappe.org
The present dismal reality unfolding in the Middle East has clear historical roots and a journey into the past may help to illuminate what lies behind the destructive policies of Israel in both Palestine and Lebanon.
Zionism arrived in Palestine in the late 19th as a colonialist movement motivated by national impulses.
The colonisation of Palestine fitted well the interests and policies of the British Empire on the eve of the First World War.
With the backing of Britain, the colonisation project expanded, and became a solid presence on the land after the war and with the establishment of the British mandate in Palestine (which lasted between 1918 and 1948).
While this consolidation took place, the indigenous society underwent, like other societies in the rest of the Arab world, a steady process of establishing a national identity.
But with one difference. While the rest of the Arab world was shaping its political identity through the struggle against European colonialism, in Palestine nationalism meant asserting your collective identity against both an exploitative British colonialism and expansionist Zionism.
Thus, the conflict with Zionism was an additional burden. The pro-Zionist policy of the British mandate there naturally strained the relationship between Britain and the local Palestinian society.
This climaxed in a revolt in 1936 against both London and the expanding Zionist colonisation project.
At the end of November 1947, the UN offered to divide Palestine into two states almost equal in their territorial space. The Jews were only one third of the population by 1947 and most of them had arrived in Palestine only a few years earlier.
The categorical Palestinian refusal to go along with this deal, backed by the Arab League, allowed the Zionist leadership to plan carefully the next step. Between February 1947 and March 1948, a final plan for ethnic cleansing was prepared.
The Zionist leadership defined 80 percent of Palestine (Israel today without the West Bank) as the space for the future state.
This was an area in which one million Palestinians lived next to 600,000 Jews.
The idea was to uproot as many Palestinians as possible. From March 1948 until the end of that year the plan was implemented despite the attempt by some Arab states to oppose it, which failed.
Some 750,000 Palestinians were expelled, 531 villages were destroyed and 11 urban neighbourhoods demolished.
Half of Palestine's population was uprooted and half of its villages destroyed. The state of Israel was established in over 80 percent of Palestine, turning Palestinian villages into Jewish settlements and recreation parks, but allowing a small number of Palestinian to remain citizens in it.
The June 1967 war allowed Israel to take the remaining 20 percent of Palestine.
This seizure defeated in a way the ethnic ideology of the Zionist movement. Israel encompassed 100 percent of Palestine, but the state incorporated a large number of Palestinians, the people who Zionists made such an effort to expel in 1948.
The fact that Israel was let off easily in 1948, and not condemned for the ethnic cleansing it committed, encouraged it to ethnically cleanse a further 300,000 Palestinians from the West Bank and the Gaza strip.
~
i disagree with Pappe that Zionism is a "colonialist movement":
Colonialism is the establishment, exploitation, maintenance, acquisition and expansion of colonies in one territory by people from another territory
neither do i agree that The Jewish State is entirely an "apartheid" project either:
The crime of Apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime
my personal assessment of zionism and the effects of it - is that it is a cruel hoax on all involved, based on a falsified religio-racial heritage foisted upon generations of people from all over the world.
i believe this hoax was perpetrated by a small group of apostate Judaic reprobates form Biblical Judaism (from Christ's Day) following the rejection of Logos....and all who came into contact with the religion they devised have been harmed and deceived by it for thousands of years.
i believe the remedy is the preaching of the Gospel of salvation
and the education of deceived Christian, Jews and Muslims.
honesty and compassion is required for all.
in any case, we can't stop it by any means.....the end game of it is global dominion....the ultimate enemy is Jesus of Nazareth and the church.
that's what the bible declares.
just reading this in context makes it really clear who Jesus was speaking to; and what He was speaking about.
the wheat are Christians.
Matthew 13
Prophecy and Parables
34All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. 35This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:e
“I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
A
Abiding
Guest
What i meant by extremes is that jews were expelled all over the world
now they are worshiped and national economies and blood is spilt for them.
Thats quite a change from 300ad
k...i'm fine with that
prove it.
you find out more about them if read the NT.
uh....lemme think about it:
the twelve tribes of Israel.
what kind of judging do you think they are doing?
W
wdeaton65
Guest
To all reading and following this thread Do we all agree that Daniel 9;24 is talking about Yeshua giving HIS life on Passover 2000 or so years ago This is a Yes or No question lets start with what we can all agree on Thanks This way we can keep an even playing field for all. Thanks
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
lol..
1. I am not talking about the jews. I am talking about the gospel
2. Blood has been spilt over the jews since Egypt.
nothing has changed.. As for blood being spilt over them. I am sure 90 % of the people dieing are not dieing for some biblical prophesy, but because they see them as our ally. Like millions died for others in ww2. in korea, in vietnam, in grenada (don't listen to the news,, we lost MANY people in grenada.) and other places..
it is not all about the jews..
A
Abiding
Guest
Dan 9:24...... to seal up vision and prophecy
Matt 5:17..Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Luke 24:27 “And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.” And verse 44 notes, “And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that All things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and the prophets and the psalms, concerning me.
"After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), 'I thirst.' A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, 'It is finished,' and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." (John 19:28-30,
Matt 5:17..Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Luke 24:27 “And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.” And verse 44 notes, “And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that All things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and the prophets and the psalms, concerning me.
"After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), 'I thirst.' A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, 'It is finished,' and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." (John 19:28-30,
Deciphering Zechariah 14:5 - LXX
LXX | Deciphering Zechariah 14:5 < click
worth the 30 or so days it will take.
compare it then to this:
Zech 14:4
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
in that day:
The Jews thought that Elias would come again before the days of the Messiah
And this, they say, will be one day before the coming of the Messiah. ... So Trypho the Jew, the same with R. Tarphon, so often mentioned in Talmudic ... "shall not know himself, nor have any power, "till Elias comes", and anoints him in that day
etc.
find out what they believed about that day.
Matthew 11:14
And if you are willing to accept it, he [John] is the Elijah who was to come.
Matthew 21
The Triumphal Entry
1Now when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, 2saying to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Untie them and bring them to me. 3If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” 4This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5 “Say to the daughter of Zion,
‘Behold, your king is coming to you,
humble, and mounted on a donkey,
anda on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden.’”
6The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them. 7They brought the donkey and the colt and put on them their cloaks, and he sat on them. 8Most of the crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. 9And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!” 10And when he entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred up, saying, “Who is this?” 11And the crowds said, “This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth of Galilee.”
Luke 21
37And every day he was teaching in the temple, but at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet. 38And early in the morning all the people came to him in the temple to hear him.
The Sermon on the Mount (anglicized from the Matthean Vulgate Latin section title: Sermo in monte) is a collection of sayings and teachings of Jesus, which emphasizes his moral teaching found in the Gospel of Matthew (chapters 5, 6 and 7).[1] It is the first of the Five Discourses of Matthew and takes place relatively early in the Ministry of Jesus after he has been baptized by John the Baptist and preached in Galilee.
The Sermon is the longest piece of teaching from Jesus in the New Testament, and has been one of the most widely quoted elements of the Canonical Gospels.[2] It includes some of the best known teachings of Jesus, such as the Beatitudes, and the widely recited Lord's Prayer. To most believers in Jesus, the Sermon on the Mount contains the central tenets of Christian discipleship.[2]
Sermon on the Mount - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that All things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and the prophets and the psalms, concerning me.
does he include Daniel in the prophets thing?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Note the words..
Jesus did not say ALL prophesy would be fulfilled
He said all prophesy (CONCERNING ME) would be fulfilled.
not all prophesy concerned Christ.
Jesus DID fulfill all prophesy concerning him as suffering servant, which is what he came as.
Also look at the words..
"it is finished"
if all prophesy was finished.. why was 70 AD and other things yet future?? guess it was not all finished on the cross. and it was NOY all about Jesus and salvation.
It is finishes concerns the work of Christ and salvation. Our salvation was paid in full. he completed his mission as suffering servant. DONE!