Israel or Palestine?

zone · Apr 6, 2013

hello? rachel?
are you reading anything i'm writing at all??

the jews at Khazaria.com SAY they are gentile converts - CHECK

they SAY they are not racial hebrews - CHECK

they SAY they migrated to Eastern Europe - CHECK

RachelBibleStudent said:

what'd you leave this out for?

All existing studies fail to compare modern Jewish populations' DNA to ancient Judean DNA and medieval Khazarian DNA, but in the absence of old DNA, comparisons with living populations appear to be adequate to trace geographic roots.

Jewish Genetics - DNA, genes, Jews, Ashkenazi < click

i know you don't like the new studies posted.
the antisemitic revisionists i guess....
maybe revisit them?
it's up to you.

..............................................

At the same time, there are traces of European (including Northern Italian and Western Slavic or Eastern Slavic) and Khazar ancestry among European Jews.

Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria, 652-1016
Over a thousand years ago, the far east of Europe was ruled by Jewish kings who presided over numerous tribes, including their own tribe: the Turkic Khazars.

After their conversion, the Khazar people used Jewish personal names, spoke and wrote in Hebrew, were circumcised, had synagogues and rabbis, studied the Torah and Talmud, and observed Hanukkah, Pesach, and the Sabbath. The Khazars were an advanced civilization with one of the most tolerant societies of the medieval period. It hosted merchants from all over Asia and Europe. On these pages it is hoped that you may learn more about this fascinating culture.

...............................

Rabbi Zelig Schachnowitz

if you wouldn't mind, rachel...help me understand WHICH jews the Khazars (gentile converts 700AD) are, if they are NOT the Ashkenazism - who are Biblical Israelites.

just make it simple for me.
thanks.

zone · Apr 6, 2013

RachelBibleStudent said:

re this post you said is changing the subject.
the subject of it WAS:

WHY do Ashkenazim (who you say are the Israelites) persecute the colored jews?

are the non-caucasian jews not really Israelites?

are you at all familiar with Naeim Giladi.
tell me about him please.

RachelBibleStudent · Apr 6, 2013

zone said:

i got the figures in question from ariella oppenheim's DNA study...you had quoted an article titled 'eran elhaik confirms ariella oppenhiem's DNA study'... had you looked at oppenheim's results you would have known of the figures i quoted...

'the white-skinned ashkenazis are biblical israelites with some turkish mixing'...that is an accurate summary of my views...-it is also the opinion expressed by the khazaria site you keep directing me to-...

british israelism is not supported by any genetic studies... and skin color is not a reliable way of determining ancestry...for example the celts and the slavs are both white...but biblically speaking they are as distant in their relation to one another as the persians and the arameans... as another example...both the lighter skinned egyptians and the darker skinned ethiopians are descendants of ham...

black jews would not be israelites...the khazaria site you keep directing me to is in agreement..."Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry." the one exception would be the lemba people of zimbabwe who are evidently descendants of israelite refugees who fled to africa and intermarried with africans following the fall of judah in 586 BC...their gene pool is now a fairly equal mixture of african and israelite elements...

sephardic jews are also israelite...again from the khazaria site..."The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite."

the arabs openly trace their ancestry back to ishmael...some of them literally have genealogies going back that far... if the modern arabs and modern jews share a common ancestor...logically that would be abraham...unless you want to claim that most modern jews are actually arabs too...or that both modern arabs and modern jews are lying khazars...

this isn't complicated...arabs are descendants of ishmael...the various modern jewish ethnic groups including the ashkenazim are descendants of isaac and more specifically isaac's son jacob...and most khazar jews were absorbed into the ashkenazi gene pool in the middle ages...

RachelBibleStudent · Apr 6, 2013

zone said:

well someone keeps bringing up the khazar theory and is now desperately trying to defend it even in spite of all but one of her own DNA study sources as well as the sum of all other scientific research contradicting it...and that person isn't me...

all the data...including the sources you kept citing...refute the khazar theory...except for the elhaik paper which i already pointed out a fatal flaw in...

and the khazaria site you keep pointing me to agrees with me on that study since they provide this caveat with links when they mention it..."But also see this commentary against the study's consideration of Armenians as a fundamentally Caucasus-based people and this commentary about its mistake in using Armenians as a proxy for the gene pool of the Khazar Empire as well as Seth Frantzman's commentary mentioning a possible problem relating to the Druse among other concerns."

for whatever reason you -need- this khazar theory to be true...even though your own sources keep contradicting it and even though you say you don't care about race...talk about cognitive dissonance...

RachelBibleStudent · Apr 6, 2013

zone said:

i have no idea where you are seeing that 'the jews at khazaria.com say they are gentile converts'...i don't see the webmaster claiming to be either jewish or khazar himself...all i see given are his academic credentials and publications...

i have yet to find any article on that site that claims that the modern ashkenazim are primarily just khazar converts under another name...though i have found many quotations to the contrary...

this is evidently representative of the khazaria site's official position on the khazar theory..."The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. [...] Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples from the northern Mediterranean region and even less from Slavs and Khazars."

the khazar jews were absorbed into the ashkenazi gene pool...through intermarriage they completely blended with the ashkenazim over time...and contributed an interesting but not remotely overriding percentage to the ashkenazi gene pool...so that the ashkenazi gene pool remains overwhelmingly israelite...

zone · Apr 6, 2013

RachelBibleStudent said:

okay rachel

....let's take another look at Elhaik:

Elhaik says there is no common genetic origin between european and non-european jews.

"The various groups of Jews in the world today do not share a common genetic origin. We are talking here about groups that are very heterogeneous and which are connected solely by religion…[the] genome of European Jews is a mosaic of ancient peoples and its origin is largely Khazar”

Haaretz asked Elhaik what he made of older, widely publicized studies which claimed to show a common genetic middle eastern origin for jews (making them Biblical Israelites according to you?).

he said the reserch(ers) have “no empirical basis, sometimes even contradicts itself and offers conclusions that are simply not convincing…It is my impression that their results were written before they began the research.

First they shot their arrow - and then they painted the bull's-eye around it.....The majority of Jews do not have the Middle Eastern genetic component in the quantity we would expect to find if they were descendants of the Jews of antiquity”
Haaretz

...................

The Jewish people's ultimate treasure hunt

In his search for Jewish ancestry, Eran Elhaik says he has discovered that some Ashkenazis originated in the Khazar empire, not the kingdom of Judah.

By Ofer Aderet | 09:12 28.12.12 | 69

The Jewish people's ultimate treasure hunt - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper < click

....................

Out of Khazaria—Evidence for “Jewish Genome” Lacking

Danielle Venton*

December 20, 2012.

Hebrew language and Jewish culture have been around for thousands of years. For much of that history, the Jews managed to maintain their heritage and cultural identity in the absence of a geographical state. Wanderings, settlements, and dispersal were thus a big part of their history. Is evidence for that history preserved in genome data?

Eran Elhaik, a geneticist at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, thinks so. In a recently published study in Genome Biology Evolution (Elhaik 2012), he is calling for a rewrite of commonly held assumptions about Jewish ancestry.

Instead of being primarily the descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel, present-day Jewish populations are, finds Elhaik, primarily the children of a Turkish people who lived in what is now Russia, north of Georgia, east of Ukraine. This civilization, the Khazars, converted from tribal religions to Judaism between the 7th and 9th centuries.

The controversy cut into by Elhaik's work runs deep, far past the lab bench. Among some circles, his conclusions are bound to be unpopular. “This is the first scientific paper to prove the Khazarian Hypothesis and reject the Rhineland Hypothesis,” he says, “and with it about 40 years of research.”

Highlight: Out of Khazaria—Evidence for “Jewish Genome” Lacking < click

so you do what you want with it rachel.
i'm moving on.
this stuff is extremely distasteful to me as it, being ashkenazi on my mom's side anyway.

my WHOLE POINT IS - no one...not you or anyone else can tell us WHO the ancient Israelites are.
to do that, you have got to dig up King David or find Abraham's bones.

the whole thing is mind-numbing - that we are even discussing it - since the Church is Israel, and half of it wants to call somebody else Israel.

zone · Apr 6, 2013

RachelBibleStudent said:

so, the ashkenazi were the biblical Hebrews.
who migrated to the Kingdom of the Khazars - Turks.
the hebrews married the khazars, and the khazars are now absorbed into the authentic hebrew genetic line, enough that we are able to hold to a solid Hebrew genetic lineage, we are calling Ashkenazi.

great....now can you please provide a single shred of evidence that Ashkenazi are Hebrews.

more than verbal genaologies or just saying a little of this from here and there, jews are from here, here, here, here, a mix of people from there and here....and STILL we say Ashkenazi are the Hebrews.

HUH?

like HUH?

are you serious?

okay....could you post some photographs of the people you say are literal actual Biblical Hebrews.

this will be my last post on the matter. you might be totally right and i could be completely wrong.
i want to make sure God doesn't curse me, so i need to know for sure the Ashkenazi ARE the Hebrews.

please just show me which jews they are.

i'll assume all the others are the converts. that'll narrow it down.
thanks.

RachelBibleStudent · Apr 6, 2013

zone said:

this should be enough to answer your questions on who is who...i will quote from the khazaria site you pointed me to...which i am really starting to like

The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite.
Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples from the northern Mediterranean region and even less from Slavs and Khazars.
Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern Europeans.
Sephardim also descend, in a smaller way, from various non-Israelite peoples.
Georgian Jews (Gruzinim) are a mix of Georgians and Israelites.
Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites.
Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly Israelites.
Libyan Jews are mainly Israelites who may have mixed somewhat with Berbers.
Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry.
Bene Israel Jews and Cochin Jews of India have much Indian ancestry in their mtDNA.
Palestinian Arabs are probably partly Israelite.
Samaritans are descended from Israelite men and Assyrian women.
Those Lembas who possess the Cohen Modal Haplotype have Middle Eastern ancestry, possibly Jewish Cohen. The Buba clan is especially Middle Eastern in its paternal DNA.
Many Spanish-speaking Latinos of the American Southwest are descended from Anusim (Spanish Jews who were forced to convert to Catholicism).
The Mizo people of northeastern India, the self-styled "B'nei Menashe", have no proven genetic connection to the Israelites.

so there you have your israelites...do with that knowledge whatever you want...

wdeaton65 · Apr 6, 2013

Ok how many end time gatherings are there how many times is Yeshua going to put and end to transgressions. and please let stick to the scriptures. I learned how to use this thing cut and paste so I will put Daniel 9;24 up for us and we can go through it line on line Isa 28;10 each and every letter one by one right from the text. Then we can see what it says first hand.

zone · Apr 6, 2013

RachelBibleStudent said:

this should be enough to answer your questions on who is who...i will quote from the khazaria site you pointed me to...which i am really starting to like

The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite.
Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples from the northern Mediterranean region and even less from Slavs and Khazars.
Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern Europeans.
Sephardim also descend, in a smaller way, from various non-Israelite peoples.
Georgian Jews (Gruzinim) are a mix of Georgians and Israelites.
Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites.
Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly Israelites.
Libyan Jews are mainly Israelites who may have mixed somewhat with Berbers.
Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry.
Bene Israel Jews and Cochin Jews of India have much Indian ancestry in their mtDNA.
Palestinian Arabs are probably partly Israelite.
Samaritans are descended from Israelite men and Assyrian women.
Those Lembas who possess the Cohen Modal Haplotype have Middle Eastern ancestry, possibly Jewish Cohen. The Buba clan is especially Middle Eastern in its paternal DNA.
Many Spanish-speaking Latinos of the American Southwest are descended from Anusim (Spanish Jews who were forced to convert to Catholicism).
The Mizo people of northeastern India, the self-styled "B'nei Menashe", have no proven genetic connection to the Israelites.

so there you have your israelites...do with that knowledge whatever you want...

YAY! EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD ARE ISRAELITES!!

zone · Apr 6, 2013

wdeaton65 said:

once.
it is finished.
He put an end to all that at the Cross.
k.

zone · Apr 6, 2013

zone said:

Gene study settles debate over origin of European Jews

(AFP) – Jan 16, 2013

PARIS — Jews of European origin are a mix of ancestries, with many hailing from tribes in the Caucasus who converted to Judaism and created an empire that lasted half a millennium, according to a gene study.

The investigation, its author says, should settle a debate that has been roiling for more than two centuries.

Jews of European descent, often called Ashkenazis, account for some 90 percent of the more than 13 million Jews in the world today.

According to the so-called Rhineland Hypothesis, Ashkenazis descended from Jews who progressively fled Palestine after the Moslem conquest of 638 AD.

They settled in southern Europe and then, in the late Middle Ages, about 50,000 of them moved from the Rhineland in Germany into eastern Europe, according to the hypothesis.

But detractors say this idea is implausible.

Barring a miracle --which some supporters of the Rhineland Hypothesis have in fact suggested -- the scenario would have been demographically impossible.

It would mean that the population of Eastern European Jews leapt from 50,000 in the 15th century to around eight million at the start of the 20th century.

That birth rate would have been 10 times greater than that of the local non-Jewish population. And it would have occurred despite economic hardship, disease, wars and pogroms that ravaged Jewish communities.

Seeking new light in the argument, a study published in the British journal Genome Biology and Evolution, compares the genomes of 1,287 unrelated individuals who hail from eight Jewish and 74 non-Jewish populations.

Geneticist Eran Elhaik of the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland, trawled through this small mountain of data in search of single changes in the DNA code that are linked to a group's geographical origins.

Such telltales have been used in past research to delve into the origins of the Basque people and the pygmy people of central Africa.

Among European Jews, Elhaik found ancestral signatures that pointed clearly to the Caucasus and also, but to a smaller degree, the Middle East.

The results, said Elhaik, give sound backing for the rival theory -- the "Khazarian Hypothesis."

Under this concept, eastern European Jews descended from the Khazars, a hotchpotch of Turkic clans that settled the Caucasus in the early centuries AD and, influenced by Jews from Palestine, converted to Judaism in the 8th century.

The Judeo-Khazars built a flourishing empire, drawing in Jews from Mesopotamia and imperial Byzantium.

They became so successful that they sent offshoots into Hungary and Romania, planting the seeds of a great diaspora.

But Khazaria collapsed in the 13th century when it was attacked by the Mongols and became weakened by outbreaks of the Black Death.

The Judeo-Khazars fled westwards, settling in the rising Polish Kingdom and in Hungary, where their skills in finance, economics and politics were in demand, and eventually spread to central and western Europe, according to the "Khazarian Hypothesis."

"We conclude that the genome of European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including Judaised Khazars, Greco-Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews and Judeans," says Elhaik.

"Their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga, with roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan."

Many things are unknown about the Khazars, whose tribal confederation gathered Slavs, Scythians, Hunnic-Bulgars, Iranians, Alans and Turks.

But, argues Elhaik, the tale sketched in the genes is backed by archaeological findings, by Jewish literature that describes the Khazars' conversion to Judaism, and by language, too.

"Yiddish, the language of Central and Eastern European Jews, began as a Slavic language" before being reclassified as High German, he notes.

Another pointer is that European Jews and their ancestral groups in the Caucasus and Middle East share a relatively high risk of diseases such as cystic fibrosis.

The investigation should help fine-tune a fast-expanding branch of genomics, which looks at single-change DNA mutations that are linked with inherited disease, adds Elhaik.

GreatisHisGlory · Apr 7, 2013

Zone there are people that will continue to believe a lie, even if the truth is smack dab in their face. It is really sad to be honest, they would in a heartbeat continue to accept lies than truth.

PeteWaldo · Apr 15, 2013

GreatisHisGlory said:

So then you believe that calling the land of Israel by the name assigned to it through the New Testament scriptures is a lie, but that calling that land by the name "Palestine" assigned to it by a satanically controlled 2nd century Roman ruler in efforts to erase it, is truth?

Let alone how the satanic device of the use of the terms "Palestine" and "Palestinians" obscures how Israeli citizens are otherwise easily categorized, and thus the groups in conflict easily seen. Which is Israeli Muslims engaged in the 1400 year goal of conquest and subjugation of all people to Islamic slavery VS the freedom, liberty and right to self-determination the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State offers to Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims, where Muslims enjoy more freedom than they do in any Muslim controlled country on earth.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel-13.html#post985301

[video=youtube;XBnciAZDoL4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBnciAZDoL4[/video]

zone · Apr 15, 2013

PeteWaldo said:

why are some ppl so obsessed with LAND?
all that killing...tsk tsk.

PeteWaldo said:

why are so-called-christians involved in and supportive of wars between unsaved, unbelieving peoples?

this here?

"VS the freedom, liberty and right to self-determination the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State offers to Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims, where Muslims enjoy more freedom than they do in any Muslim controlled country on earth."

well i reckon we'll have to take a look at your Hasbara.

i mean....just look at THIS

freedom, liberty and right to self-determination the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State offers to ......

hmm....

sumpin notadding up here, but for the life of me i just can't figure out wha......

zone · Apr 15, 2013

PeteWaldo said:

i wonder if anyone could please identify the guy in the video?

thanks.

ya Central?
look...this is getting ridiculous.
are you guys drinking over there or what?
come on!

.........

also....could anyone familiar with the various sects of "Islam" please explain who Abu Hurairah was

; when he converted to Islam

; explain about the 40,000 hadiths he interpreted or narrated.

how broad is acceptance of the hadiths of Abu Hurairah in the Islamic world?

anybody? anybody?

the OP is such that these questions are indeed on topic and relevant.
probably fairly critical at this point that we ask a few more questions.

also, i see the video is another MEMRI production.

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) explores the Middle East and South Asia through their media. MEMRI bridges the language gap between the West and the Middle East and South Asia, providing timely translations of Arabic, Farsi, Urdu-Pashtu and Dari media, as well as original analysis of political, ideological, intellectual, social, cultural, and religious trends.

Founded in February 1998 to inform the debate over U.S. policy in the Middle East, MEMRI is an independent, nonpartisan, nonprofit, 501(c)3 organization. MEMRI's main office is located in Washington, DC, with branch offices in various world capitals. MEMRI research is translated into English, French, Polish, Japanese, and Hebrew.

...

MEMRI's work directly supports fighting the U.S. War on Terror. Highly trained staff thoroughly translate and analyze open-source materials that include television programming, radio, newspapers, textbooks, and websites.

Every single day, MEMRI receives requests from members of the U.S. government, military, and legislature. Since September 11, 2001, the demand for this material has significantly increased – providing thousands of pages of translated documents of Arab, Iranian, Urdu, Pashtu, Hindi, Dari, and Turkish print media, terrorist websites, school books, and tens of thousands of hours of translated footage from Arab and Iranian television.

This video takes you from the halls of government to the briefing rooms of the U.S. military to the frontlines of counter-terrorism efforts, and demonstrates just how MEMRI has become – A Vital Component in the U.S. War on Terror.

....

THE MEMBERS OF MEMRI'S CAJFI BOARD ARE:

Sen. Joe Lieberman (I/D-CT)
Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ)
Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA)
Rep. Gary Ackerman (D-NY)
Rep. Peter King (R-NY)
Rep. Steven Rothman (D-NJ)
Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA)
Rep. Russ Carnahan (D-MO)
Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ)
Rep. Brad Sherman (D-CA)
Rep. Bill Shuster (R-PA)
Rep. Eliot Engel (D-NY)
Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV)
Governor Sam Brownback (R-KS)
Former CIA Director Jim Woolsey
Former FBI Counter-Terrorism Director of Operations Buck Revell
Nobel Prize Winner Elie Wiesel
Professor Judea Pearl

MEMRI – A Vital Component in the U.S. War on Terror – Civic Action for a Jihad-Free Internet (CAJFI) < click

....

thanks very much then.
any help would be appreciated.
counter-intelligence is fun and easy.

(please direct-deposit any nickels)

zone · Apr 15, 2013

A November 2008 Washington Report article “A Conservative Estimate of Total Direct U.S. Aid to Israel: $114 Billion,” by Shirl McArthur, puts the cumulative total even higher.

According to McArthur, “[T]he indirect or consequential costs to the American taxpayer as a result of Washington’s blind support for Israel exceed by many times the amount of direct U.S. aid to Israel. Some of these ‘indirect or consequential’ costs would include the costs to U.S. manufacturers of the Arab boycott, the costs to U.S. companies and consumers of the Arab oil embargo and consequent soaring oil prices as a result of U.S. support for Israel in the 1973 war, and the costs of U.S. unilateral economic sanctions on Iran, Iraq, Libya and Syria. (For a discussion of these larger costs, see ‘The Costs to American Taxpayers of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: $3 Trillion,’ by the late Thomas R. Stauffer, June 2003 Washington Report, p. 20.)”

US Aid to Israel and the Palestinians < click

THREE TRILLION DOLLARS.
paid for by Americans.

that was way back 2003.
a decade ago.

TABLE 3: Summary Overview of Costs to U.S. of Support for Israel Since WWII (in 2002 dollars or jobs per year)

Direct $1,845 bn
Official foreign aid 247 bn
Rescue Costs (1973) 1,050 bn
Collateral costs (aid) 451 bn
Special, ad hoc support 106 bn
Trade & Job losses 275,000 jobs/yr
Linked $324 bn min
Aid to periphery (NIS, etc) 49 bn+
Energy autarky 235 bn min
"Defense" of the Gulf 40 bn
Contingent
Oil Supply Guarantee
(not yet implemented) $3 bn/month

The Costs to American Taxpayers of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: $3 Trillion < click

Genesis 12
1Now the LORD said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. 2And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. 3I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

how's that Scofield (Oxford) Bible workin' for ya?

PeteWaldo · Apr 15, 2013

zone said:

If you had watched the video, the video identifies him. Muhammad Hussein Yacoub is just your average run of the mill Islamic cleric, scholar, and Egyptian TV proselytizer, that GETS Islam and understands what the false prophet Muhammad commanded of his true followers.
He's just part of the fruit on team Zone's anti-Zionist tree.
Muhammad Hussein Yacoub - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sahih Bukhari B52 #177 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "the Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Qur'an 33:26 "Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things."
JIHAD

[video=youtube;UQERHieZHcg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQERHieZHcg[/video]

Of course this next leader flat out lies regarding the Quran not cursing Christians, perhaps so that Bible and Quran ignorant partial preterists, are more easily duped into sitting around his campfire with him and singing his "us against the Jews" kumbaya while drinking his kool-aid.

zone said:

Good of you to point out the blindness of those that are of the world, when the problem is obvious to those of us that don't parrot a Satan led 2nd century Roman ruler, by calling Israel Palestine.

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
united copts .org - Statement by Father Juan Carlos Martos cmf

JaumeJ · Apr 15, 2013

The politics of this age have nothing to do with our Kingdom.

2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2Ti 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

PeteWaldo · Apr 15, 2013

JaumeJ said:

This isn't about politics, but about judging a tree by its fruit as scripture instructs:

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

In this case the fruit of the tree of Zionism and the fruit of the tree of anti-Zionism.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel-13.html#post985301

On that subject perhaps you can contribute. Could you click on the following link and provide a reply to the last paragraph on the OP of the thread?
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel.html

"I would appreciate it if members began their replies as to whether you believe the restoration of Jews to Israel is of the Lord, as millions believe was prophesied - and as Christians anticipated long before that restoration began to take place - or whether you believe it is of Satan, and why, or offer another alternative."

As Christians I imagine we can both agree, that it didn't take place in a spiritual vacuum.

Israel or Palestine?

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