Question about salvation

[Chr]

First you say no one can live without sin, then you say we cant live in sin. So which one is it? Whhere do you stand?

James 1:[SUP]8 [/SUP]A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

sinless read the whole book of 1 John thats where I stand.We christians are not sinless but we don't live in a lifestyle of sin like the world.We repent and obey God's commandments.

 

[Skinski7]

Who are you going to believe?

An individual who twists a a few passages out of context yet will NEVER show you these other passages which are in the Bible, or are you going to believe the WHOLE COUNSEL of God.

Many treat the Bible as a menu and are soothed by isolating and twisting out of context select verses whilst IGNORING what the Bible actually teaches.

Shy, you cannot lose your salvation, ever. Do not listen to those who think they are maintaining their salvation by works.

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.





'For by grace (which teaches Tit 2:11-12) you have been saved through faith (obedient yielding Heb 11). And this is not your own doing (not of anything we do apart from God); it is the gift of God (the gift of God is eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ Rom 6:23, we must ABIDE in Christ (Joh 15:3-4), the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ sets us free (Rom 8:2) ,But to all who did receive him (recieved Him by laying aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness Jam 1:21), who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,[SUP]13 [/SUP]who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God (God raises us up by his power when we receive Him (Joh 1:12), having repented and converted (Act 3:19), whereby we put off the body of sins by the circumsion of Christ and then were raised up by God's power (Col 2:11-12). But to all who did receive him (again, one must lay aside all known sin in order to receive Christ Jam 1:21), who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,[SUP]13 [/SUP]who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,[SUP]13 [/SUP]who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God, not a result of works (not a result of keeping the rules and rituals of the mosaic law or any other law, this does not negate works of faith Heb 11, 2Pet 1:5-11), so that no one may boast." Eph. 2:8-9 (the boast was in the observance of the law of Moses Rom 2:17)



I was taught this lie for many years in churches where Arminian theology was taught. When I prayed God showed me so many scriptures, which tell us that GOD saves, and we are born again of the Spirit. Arminian theology is in error also for they teach a second work of grace and thus also adhere to salvation apart from heart purity.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," 1 Peter 1:3

To be born of God, means you are his child. God does not cast out his children. (God cast out Adam, God cut off the children of Israel. Has God changed?) There is a small point in which we are walking with God and we obey him and try to please him. But not because we FEAR losing our salvation, but because we love Jesus so much. And we are not perfect, so when we do sin, it will cut off our fellowship with God if we do not repent.

If you disobey it cuts you off from God. If you are still disobedient you probably never repented in the first place but only experienced worldly sorrow.

"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13.

God bless you, "He will never leave or forsake you." Hebrews 13:5, Deut. 31:6

Yet you can leave and forsake Him. God is patient and God is kind but don't count on his patience and kindness as approval of rebellion or that rebellion won't put you in hell.

 

[sinless]

sinless read the whole book of 1 John thats where I stand.We christians are not sinless but we don't live in a lifestyle of sin like the world.We repent and obey God's commandments.

I think you need to read the book of 1 John

1st John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Could he be more clear?
#1 He says we who have the hope of resurrection will purify ourselves EVEN AS CHRIST IS PURE...once again that is sinless
#2 He says Christians are not permitted to sin
#3 He says those that do sin are not of God but of the devil

 

[sinless]

So if we all claim to be wicked men, why do we argue over who goes to heaven and who doesn't? The truth is we haven't changed. Look at how we live as a whole.

Im not wicked, nor I have claimed to be. I am a new creation fashioned in the mage of Christ Himself

 

[justamazed]

Im not wicked, nor I have claimed to be. I am a new creation fashioned in the mage of Christ Himself

Then I ask you the same "new creature". 18 million homes and 3 million homeless. What's wrong with this picture?

 

[Chr]

I agree with tintin about you sinless.

 

[sinless]

Then I ask you the same "new creature". 18 million homes and 3 million homeless. What's wrong with this picture?

I not sure what your point is supposed to be? There were many homeless people when Jesus walked the Earth. He didnt build them houses.

What exactly are you trying to say?

 

[justamazed]

I not sure what your point is supposed to be? There were many homeless people when Jesus walked the Earth. He didnt build them houses.

What exactly are you trying to say?

I'm trying to see what's new about us. There was not 6 homes for every homeless person in Jesus' day. No my friend. We refuse to crucify the old man. I guess it'll take 36 million empty homes to see the abundance in the land in which we are still unfaithful with.

 

[sinless]

I agree with tintin about you sinless.

Im cool with that. Jesus said the world would hate those who follow Him, Paul said all who live godly would suffer persecution. What you, tintin or anyone else thinks of me doesn't bother me a bit. As long as I know what God has said in His word, and believe what He has said about me. As long as I align my life up to His word Im good. However I will continue to speak God's truth to you, and pray one day you will hear what God is saying through His word and ministers.
One the symptoms of the last day apostate church is that they would be despisers of those who are good 2 Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, DESPISERS OF THOSE THAT ARE GOOD,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away

 

[sinless]

I'm trying to see what's new about us. There was not 6 homes for every homeless person in Jesus' day. No my friend. We refuse to crucify the old man. I guess it'll take 36 million empty homes to see the abundance in the land in which we are still unfaithful with.

We? I think you would need to speak for yourself. If you mean the church as a whole I would agree most are lost and don't even know it. But don't include me in your we

 

[justamazed]

We? I think you would need to speak for yourself. If you mean the church as a whole I would agree most are lost and don't even know it. But don't include me in your we

So all men will be saved correct?

 

[sinless]

So all men will be saved correct?

Not sure will you get that from. Jesus said few will find the path that leads to life

 

[Chr]

sinless your a heretic,you deny the context of 1 John. Im done talking to you.

 

[Angela53510]

When I lived up in northern Canada, in a community that was mostly Arminian, some of the natives would get drunk every Saturday night and come to church every Sunday morning and get re-saved! Now I heard that from another native, it was a joke in their church.

I guess they had it down to a weekly getting born again, again. Of course, you could be be born again more often I would assume, depending upon how fast you did..... did what? Ask Jesus back into your heart again? Did some good works?? Not quite clear on this, since it seems like repenting of your sins is not enough.

Loved the thought, Crossnote. And that it is space cadet theology. I assume that is spaced out? Or out of this world?

 

[sinless]

sinless your a heretic,you deny the context of 1 John. Im done talking to you.

1st John says those that sin are of the devil, and that Christians do not sin. Your problem is not with me, but with the WORD

 

[justamazed]

Not sure will you get that from. Jesus said few will find the path that leads to life

He also said that He came to save the MANY. Point being that we both KNOW that we're going to die. Whatever happens after is by faith. But if we are unfaithful in the 18 million homes that WE CAN SEE, then how could the world believe either you or me?

 

[sinless]

1 John 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

John shows us that when we repent we are not only forgiven but also cleansed from ALL and every sin rendering us sinless. Verse 8 is spicifically speaking of those that believe they have no need of repentance at all, and verse 10 confirm we do need to repent, saying we have all sinned (past tense). There is nothing in this passage that says believers cannot cease from sin. Especially when we keep reading through chapter 2 verse 6

1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

John first says DO NOT SIN, next he says IF (not when) we sin there is forgiveness, then he says those that do not obey Christ are not christians but liar, lastly He says we who name Christ ought to live as He live...that was sinlessly

Furthermore if we continue to read 1st John through chapter 3 he makes it even clearer

1st John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Could he be more clear?
#1 He says we who have the hope of resurrection will purify ourselves EVEN AS CHRIST IS PURE...once again that is sinless
#2 He says Christians are not permitted to sin
#3 He says those that do sin are not of God but of the devil

Lastly 1 John 5:18 reads ''18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.''

Those that ignore the whole of 1st John (muchless the whole of scripture) and use 1 or 2 verses out of context to teach believers cannot cease from sin are not only in gross error but false teachers perpretuating the strong delusion of 2nd Thessalonians 2:10-12

 

[sinless]

When I lived up in northern Canada, in a community that was mostly Arminian, some of the natives would get drunk every Saturday night and come to church every Sunday morning and get re-saved! Now I heard that from another native, it was a joke in their church.

I guess they had it down to a weekly getting born again, again. Of course, you could be be born again more often I would assume, depending upon how fast you did..... did what? Ask Jesus back into your heart again? Did some good works?? Not quite clear on this, since it seems like repenting of your sins is not enough.

Loved the thought, Crossnote. And that it is space cadet theology. I assume that is spaced out? Or out of this world?

These people who continued in sin getting ''born again'' over and over were never born again in the first place. If they had been they would have forsaken their sin

 

[Angela53510]

Not really sure how I don't know the Bible, Skinski. Let's see, I've read it from cover to cover over 35 times. I've read the New Testament in Greek. I'm reading the Old Testament in Hebrew.

If you want, I could post long passages in context, I do understand the meaning of good hermeneutics. I've been studying the Bible in depth in Seminary for 7 years, under godly men and women who have been international missionaries and brought many to Christ. But it seems to me, no matter how much I posted, even the whole Bible, some people have an agenda, and they are not going to listen to the truth.

I guess I should not bother with refuting personal attacks from people who use the Bible as club. I will pray about forgiving those who do not know what they do. Not speaking about attacks on me, I can take it. Just a bit horrified anyone would do this to a young Christian. That they would try and discourage them from serving God and confusing them about God's love.

And very sorry my Bible verses somehow did get literally twisted in my first post. Not sure how it happen, but I will promise to re-read before my edit time expires, from now on.

"By grace you are saved through faith, not of works that anyone should boast." Eph. 2:8

Grace, grace, grace. Trying to make it simpler, rather than more complex!

Grace is what saves us. Grace that is greater than all my sins.

[video=youtube;19IvMy5sb8o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19IvMy5sb8o[/video]

 

[justamazed]

1 John 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

John shows us that when we repent we are not only forgiven but also cleansed from ALL and every sin rendering us sinless. Verse 8 is spicifically speaking of those that believe they have no need of repentance at all, and verse 10 confirm we do need to repent, saying we have all sinned (past tense). There is nothing in this passage that says believers cannot cease from sin. Especially when we keep reading through chapter 2 verse 6

1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

John first says DO NOT SIN, next he says IF (not when) we sin there is forgiveness, then he says those that do not obey Christ are not christians but liar, lastly He says we who name Christ ought to live as He live...that was sinlessly

Furthermore if we continue to read 1st John through chapter 3 he makes it even clearer

1st John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Could he be more clear?
#1 He says we who have the hope of resurrection will purify ourselves EVEN AS CHRIST IS PURE...once again that is sinless
#2 He says Christians are not permitted to sin
#3 He says those that do sin are not of God but of the devil

Lastly 1 John 5:18 reads ''18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.''

Those that ignore the whole of 1st John (muchless the whole of scripture) and use 1 or 2 verses out of context to teach believers cannot cease from sin are not only in gross error but false teachers perpretuating the strong delusion of 2nd Thessalonians 2:10-12

All of this means nothing but words without understanding. You believe that only a few will be saved. This is not perfect love which casts out fear, but fear itself. What do you base your salvation off of, your beliefs? Even the devils believe. Something is missing in all of this. Again we now live in a world in where WE can virtually eliminate all crime, poverty, famine and homelessness but we continue to build upon the things which we all know is destroyed.