That's what I'm talking about Luke. It doesn't matter what anybody says. You just dismiss everything. We will not wow you with science and you think we live in some psychological state.I really enjoyed your storyBut I don't think it proved your point, I think those sort of things are natural psychological events, since they happen in false religions and secular social situations too. People get stage fright
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HappyLuke
Guest
We ALL live in psychological states, just some people mistake psychological events for external beings. You believe that too, since you believe false religions also induce religious experiences.
You are being irrational if you say that 'Luke didn't accept evidence claim X and Y as demonstrating God' proves that 'Luke wouldn't accept any evidence claim as demonstrating God'.
I can explain in more detail why claims X and Y really, truly don't prove God, but you're not interested in that, just pretending it backs up your claim that I wouldn't accept actual, valid evidence. Kind of as a cover to avoid admitting you don't have any?
Can you please stop bullying me everyone else is making really polite, thought-provoking, enjoyable conversation
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HappyLuke
Guest
I wasn't converted by the barrage of people telling me that the feelings they have while praying proves God exists, and seeing that you came in as the "we don't take kindly to folks like you round here" guy.
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Powemm
Guest
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Nuns_n_roses
Guest
I would encourage you to read "God Doesn't Believe in Atheists." I cannot vouch for it's scientific viewpoints myself as I have personally never read it, but I have heard about it from relatives. The author was an Athiest bent on proving Christianity wrong, via science I believe, only to convert.
Might be an interesting read for you.
Might be an interesting read for you.
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HappyLuke
Guest
Ahahaha That was funny, I was about to say "Okay thanks, I'll give it a go "
Then I googled it
It's by Ray Comfort lol I can negatively vouch for it's scientific viewpoints, his science knowledge is horrendous!
And it's kind of a business to him, he's been taught in detail where the things he says are wrong, by qualified scientists of the field, but he keeps saying the same old wrong things. He's a nice guy, not deeply dishonest, just overconfident in his misinformation.
It's author may have been an atheist at some point, I kind of doubt it, but he was never a sceptic nor scientifically literate.
That was funny, I was about to say "Okay thanks, I'll give it a go "Then I googled it
It's by Ray Comfort lol
I can negatively vouch for it's scientific viewpoints, his science knowledge is horrendous! And it's kind of a business to him, he's been taught in detail where the things he says are wrong, by qualified scientists of the field, but he keeps saying the same old wrong things. He's a nice guy, not deeply dishonest, just overconfident in his misinformation.
It's author may have been an atheist at some point, I kind of doubt it, but he was never a sceptic nor scientifically literate.
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HappyLuke
Guest
Ray vs Ra - YouTube
Skip to 2:55 and Ray Comfort will give an insaaaane summary of how he thinks evolution happens, he clearly just didn't plan it out before saying it (and clearly he doesn't understand the history of life)
He's like "the first life forms after the Earth cools, then over millions of years the dog evolved. He's the first dog, with legs, a mouth, a head, a tail, and eyes, and it's good that he's got eyes because he's got to first a female! A female dog that just happens to have evolved into a dog at that very same time.
It's like "What do you think gave birth to that 'first' dog, Ray? A big ball of slime with no legs, tail, head or eyes?"
Scientifically he's an absolute moron, but I do like him because he was charming when he was a guest on my favourite show and when he did an interview with Thunderf00t
Nice guy, but spreads ignorance
Skip to 2:55 and Ray Comfort will give an insaaaane summary of how he thinks evolution happens, he clearly just didn't plan it out before saying it (and clearly he doesn't understand the history of life)
He's like "the first life forms after the Earth cools, then over millions of years the dog evolved. He's the first dog, with legs, a mouth, a head, a tail, and eyes, and it's good that he's got eyes because he's got to first a female! A female dog that just happens to have evolved into a dog at that very same time.
It's like "What do you think gave birth to that 'first' dog, Ray? A big ball of slime with no legs, tail, head or eyes?"
Scientifically he's an absolute moron, but I do like him because he was charming when he was a guest on my favourite show and when he did an interview with Thunderf00t
Nice guy, but spreads ignorance
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HappyLuke
Guest
"he's been blind for millions of years, and now he can see"
lol
He's got no idea what he's saying
lol
He's got no idea what he's saying
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AEisen
Guest
I am a Scientist at the top of my field. I was an Atheist, but and am now an evangelical Christian I will try and answer in a compatible format to that which you requested earlier, but the proposed response isn't something that can be reached immediately. First let me present the scientific process in an easy-to-relate, well-known, and somewhat simplified model:
The scientific process initially guesses some theory.
The scientific process then develops that theory.
The scientific process then predicts some implications of that theory.
The scientific process then compares these implications to what is observed in nature.
- If the measurements from the observations don't match what is observed in nature, it is wrong and discarded.
- If the measurements match the observations found in nature, it is said to be true.
- And finally, theories may be disproved if more accurate measurements contradict the results.
Now, in quote "try and find arguments for God", as a scientist you are encouraged to apply the scientific process to Gods word; the collection of historical documents known as the Bible. A common atheist primitive to this suggestion is, quoting R. Dawkins, "Would you need to read learned volumes on Leprechology before disbelieving in leprechauns?" This attitude is unscientific and contradictory, as it is not applying the scientific method to Leprechology; doing so would immediately invalidate it, as leprechauns or evolutionary evidence for leprechauns are not observed in nature. In comparison to the word of God, there is substantial evidence that Jesus was a real man who existed and is recorded by various measurable historical documents. The Bible claims that Jesus was fully God and fully human, therefore he appears to be the perfect tool for humans to measure. This is a good thing for scientists. If you really are willing to try to find arguments for God (which was the same attitude I had as an Atheist) I encourage you to search for and attend a regular local Bible study, or a similar Christianity Explored course, and try to engage with local Christians at your level of intellect. In such sessions I further encourage you to measure the lives of the Christians who host such a study, and to take a systematic and scientific approach to measuring the validity of God’s word. In particular, I found it helpful to look at the motivation of the authors of the Bible, the life and claims of Jesus, the timeline of historical events that occurred, and the intention of the language in which it is written. To do this with an unbiased approach and thorough coverage requires a few years of your life, as in my case. It is also beneficial to have local access to scholars who can help you access to the original documents and bridge the translation problem. Finally, I do not think the internet is a good place to begin; if God really does exist and offer eternal life to real humans, then this is surely something you need to see for your self in nature.
I apologise for any incoherency in this answer, as I am rushed to reply and create a forum account and have to go now.
I will try and answer in a compatible format to that which you requested earlier, but the proposed response isn't something that can be reached immediately. First let me present the scientific process in an easy-to-relate, well-known, and somewhat simplified model:The scientific process initially guesses some theory.
The scientific process then develops that theory.
The scientific process then predicts some implications of that theory.
The scientific process then compares these implications to what is observed in nature.
- If the measurements from the observations don't match what is observed in nature, it is wrong and discarded.
- If the measurements match the observations found in nature, it is said to be true.
- And finally, theories may be disproved if more accurate measurements contradict the results.
Now, in quote "try and find arguments for God", as a scientist you are encouraged to apply the scientific process to Gods word; the collection of historical documents known as the Bible. A common atheist primitive to this suggestion is, quoting R. Dawkins, "Would you need to read learned volumes on Leprechology before disbelieving in leprechauns?" This attitude is unscientific and contradictory, as it is not applying the scientific method to Leprechology; doing so would immediately invalidate it, as leprechauns or evolutionary evidence for leprechauns are not observed in nature. In comparison to the word of God, there is substantial evidence that Jesus was a real man who existed and is recorded by various measurable historical documents. The Bible claims that Jesus was fully God and fully human, therefore he appears to be the perfect tool for humans to measure. This is a good thing for scientists. If you really are willing to try to find arguments for God (which was the same attitude I had as an Atheist) I encourage you to search for and attend a regular local Bible study, or a similar Christianity Explored course, and try to engage with local Christians at your level of intellect. In such sessions I further encourage you to measure the lives of the Christians who host such a study, and to take a systematic and scientific approach to measuring the validity of God’s word. In particular, I found it helpful to look at the motivation of the authors of the Bible, the life and claims of Jesus, the timeline of historical events that occurred, and the intention of the language in which it is written. To do this with an unbiased approach and thorough coverage requires a few years of your life, as in my case. It is also beneficial to have local access to scholars who can help you access to the original documents and bridge the translation problem. Finally, I do not think the internet is a good place to begin; if God really does exist and offer eternal life to real humans, then this is surely something you need to see for your self in nature.
I apologise for any incoherency in this answer, as I am rushed to reply and create a forum account and have to go now.
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danschance
Guest
If that is true, that is pathetic. Multiple accounts, multiple names and multiple genders?
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Phillipy
Guest
I am a Scientist at the top of my field. I was an Atheist, but and am now an evangelical Christian
The scientific process initially guesses some theory.
The scientific process then develops that theory.
The scientific process then predicts some implications of that theory.
The scientific process then compares these implications to what is observed in nature.
- If the measurements from the observations don't match what is observed in nature, it is wrong and discarded.
- If the measurements match the observations found in nature, it is said to be true.
- And finally, theories may be disproved if more accurate measurements contradict the results.
Great message! You should create a more active account and spend some time here teaching us more about science
You reminded me of that great old Richard Feynman quote;
I might as well give my testimony, just to add some variety
I'm a non-believer, I've never come to understand there to be any reasons to think that a being is listening to my thoughts, controlling the world around me, created life or the universe, or any of the finer details like died for my sins. However I have come to understand several natural processes that can lead such stories without them being true, so at this point I'm unable to believe such claims on testimony alone, there are naturalistic, less world-view altering alternate explanations. I'll need to verify such things actually happen, before I can accept miraculous claims on testimony alone.
So my testimony is, I'm on an ongoing quest for logical, scientific evidence of God
I am curious as to how deeply you have studied science. The reason that I am curious is because you will take note that many great scientists determined that things must have been designed in order for them to be.
It is usually a result of the mathematical probability of everything being accidental verses it being designed. The probabilities are vastly different.
It is somewhat similar to me presenting a bicycle to someone that had never seen one before and telling them that there is no evidence that there was a creator. The evidence is all around you. Look closer.
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Sain
Guest
At times, I find myself doubting my own faith. There will always be a lot of questions when it comes to Christianity for me but I have to remember this; Even an atheist has faith. They have faith that God didn't create the universe but that the universe came to exist in another way, some insisting that it came to exist on its own! (which takes a LOT of faith!) When I have doubts, God reassures me with bible passages such as that when He created the universe, He stretched it out. The universe has been confirmed to have expanded since it began, proving this to be true. God also mentioned that the earth was a sphere long before men found it to be true. God reassures us with this to let us know He is truly the Creator. If you're interested, I'd love to give you the bible verses!
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Phillipy
Guest
Hiiii! I was just wondering, is that verse written before Eratosthenes of about 300b.c.?
/watch?v=G8cbIWMv0rI
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danschance
Guest
Atheists not only have faith, but they have a religion. Some atheists even exhibit "rabid religious extremism" the same exhibited by fundamentalist Muslims who fly jets into the twin towers. Opening up multiple accounts under multiple psuedo-identities with multiple genders and ages and countries, being banned over and over and returning to the same activities again and again, trying to trick others into thinking they need to argue science vs. faith and even pretending to be christian scientists or a female christian in distress are but a few symptoms of atheistic rabid religious extremism.
God loves them and I am trying to.
God loves them and I am trying to.
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DannyC
Guest
re·li·gion
The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power,esp. a personal God or gods.
That is the first definition from the Oxford English dictionary.
Atheism cannot be a religion by simple comparison of definitions. Atheists hold no belief or worship in a superhuman controlling power, i.e God. Nor do they have any belief system or doctrinal code to follow.
In fact atheism couldn't be further from the definition of religion if it so tried. It involves a lack of belief in a God, and that's it. I'm sure you can find some that add to the core of that but none propose a belief in God or a set of dogma is essential to its definition.
You should really watch your words when comparing the actions of extremist moslems who flew planes into two skyscrapers killing thousands with someone who has made multiple accounts on a christian site. It is idiotic and it's completely tactless.
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Nuns_n_roses
Guest
American researcher has discovered that while praying, the brain re-programs itself Thought this may fascinate you from a psychological stand point. "Therefore, and according to a number of Western researchers, to be religious is better than being atheist for the good of humanity to be safe and sound." Of course that is a sweeping statement, but please read to understand.
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Tethered
Guest
"The more man meditates upon good thoughts, the better will be his world and the world at large."Confucius
*less of a sweeping statement*
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Elesian
Guest
I might as well give my testimony, just to add some variety
I'm a non-believer, I've never come to understand there to be any reasons to think that a being is listening to my thoughts, controlling the world around me, created life or the universe, or any of the finer details like died for my sins. However I have come to understand several natural processes that can lead such stories without them being true, so at this point I'm unable to believe such claims on testimony alone, there are naturalistic, less world-view altering alternate explanations. I'll need to verify such things actually happen, before I can accept miraculous claims on testimony alone.
So my testimony is, I'm on an ongoing quest for logical, scientific evidence of God
Well good luck. Let me know how that turns out for you.
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Brighthouse
Guest
Want to get a little deep in the subject of what a mindset is? There are some of us here,who know fully the power of and in the mind. God's Word teaches us how to train the mind along his Word, For example. ( rom 12:1-2) To set ones mind like an alarm clock comes with much discipline,and practice.
For what good is having a mind that is set if one never uses it? The negitive set is before us each day as we walk or on our jobsite or wherever we go. The world choose to set there mind on that which is only temporal.( 2 cor 5:16-18) Through the trials of life, they set there mind to what problem will happen to them,and they get excatly what they have set there mind to. Many pray to the Lord for help in this area,as if by some miracle he will fix our mind set. This he can do,but we are also required to do our part to!( james 1:22)
To follow the instruction given to us by Jesus in his Word, is having the ability to set ones mind of who we follow.We can measure this mindset by how we act when it rains in our life.( matt 5:45) It will rain! The Service training I received in bootcamp is just the purpose for bootcamp.It is not about learning to follow orders so much as it is about setting ones mind according to the opertaion at hand for the soldier. It takes much discipline and training! So it is with the believer! Please do read the 4 chapters of 2 tim, for how one's mindset can be affected by how, and often one trains there mind in this area.
Training is not once a week at your local church,training is daily, yes everyday of ones life. To many non believers, they are this way because they are to lazy to deal with themselves, let alone others in there life,hence the result! Nothing from nothing leaves nothing!That is the result to that mind set.
However as even many non believers see in the world, when one has set there mind to a desire in ther life,like becoming a great singer,or great baseball player, the discipline required for such a task in made into light, by how they first change there mind towards there goal,and there actions associated with that goal! That no matter how many people tell them it is to hard,or how many mistakes one makes they keep moving forward towards there goal in life!
While many believers are at the malt shop getting fat,in the non mindset of the world, many believers are coming to understand fully the great need to set ones mind on the things of the Lord,and the purpose of becomeing established in that Word! Hence there result! No fear,peace even in a storm,and the ability to not boast to others,but rather show others through the LOVE!!! Of Jesus which carries them to there goal!( 1 cor 9:23-27!!)
For what good is it to others who see another reaching there goal, if that person keeps how they reached that goal to themselves? But to speak in authority to others, one must first be truly established in there mindset.This does take time, and very hard work on our part! When good friends ask you to go to the bar with them,and you choose not to,not because you are better then they are!!But rather because your mindset has a purpose in your life,and hopefully this you can convey to them to do the same.
While it is very true some will leave you as there friend because of this,who is better off? They want to discuss the problems of there day and life,you wish to discuss how through discipline of staying in God's Word,one can truly set there mind in not only becoming free,but staying free through our Lord Jesus! But the action of discipline comes not from the Lord,but from self in the Lord.
We have to be willing to pay the price to have what we so desire! When you ride in an airplane you can ride coach,but in order to ride first class, you must be willing to pay the price to ride there! So it is with the believer. SO!!! I the least of the brethen in Christ Jesus encourage you to pay the price to ride first class! For indeed the ride in Christ Jesus is much more fuller,and more joyful when your mind is set in him,rather then in others, or self!
For my brothers and sisters,one cannot give to others what one does not have to give! HAVE something to give!! Get your mindset upon the Word, so others can receive the result of your belief in your very faith! STAYING free through Christ Jesus because of it! Freedom is established through God's Word but NOT!!!! to turn ones freedom for opportinuity for the flesh!! BUT through LOVE!!! Serving one another!! amen!! ( gal 5:13-15) To love you neighbor you first have to learn how you stay loved by God in yourself!! This is what a mindset in Christ Jesus does! And the result is leading others to recive such a wonderful gift as a mind set in Jesus! Blessing all!
For what good is having a mind that is set if one never uses it? The negitive set is before us each day as we walk or on our jobsite or wherever we go. The world choose to set there mind on that which is only temporal.( 2 cor 5:16-18) Through the trials of life, they set there mind to what problem will happen to them,and they get excatly what they have set there mind to. Many pray to the Lord for help in this area,as if by some miracle he will fix our mind set. This he can do,but we are also required to do our part to!( james 1:22)
To follow the instruction given to us by Jesus in his Word, is having the ability to set ones mind of who we follow.We can measure this mindset by how we act when it rains in our life.( matt 5:45) It will rain! The Service training I received in bootcamp is just the purpose for bootcamp.It is not about learning to follow orders so much as it is about setting ones mind according to the opertaion at hand for the soldier. It takes much discipline and training! So it is with the believer! Please do read the 4 chapters of 2 tim, for how one's mindset can be affected by how, and often one trains there mind in this area.
Training is not once a week at your local church,training is daily, yes everyday of ones life. To many non believers, they are this way because they are to lazy to deal with themselves, let alone others in there life,hence the result! Nothing from nothing leaves nothing!That is the result to that mind set.
However as even many non believers see in the world, when one has set there mind to a desire in ther life,like becoming a great singer,or great baseball player, the discipline required for such a task in made into light, by how they first change there mind towards there goal,and there actions associated with that goal! That no matter how many people tell them it is to hard,or how many mistakes one makes they keep moving forward towards there goal in life!
While many believers are at the malt shop getting fat,in the non mindset of the world, many believers are coming to understand fully the great need to set ones mind on the things of the Lord,and the purpose of becomeing established in that Word! Hence there result! No fear,peace even in a storm,and the ability to not boast to others,but rather show others through the LOVE!!! Of Jesus which carries them to there goal!( 1 cor 9:23-27!!)
For what good is it to others who see another reaching there goal, if that person keeps how they reached that goal to themselves? But to speak in authority to others, one must first be truly established in there mindset.This does take time, and very hard work on our part! When good friends ask you to go to the bar with them,and you choose not to,not because you are better then they are!!But rather because your mindset has a purpose in your life,and hopefully this you can convey to them to do the same.
While it is very true some will leave you as there friend because of this,who is better off? They want to discuss the problems of there day and life,you wish to discuss how through discipline of staying in God's Word,one can truly set there mind in not only becoming free,but staying free through our Lord Jesus! But the action of discipline comes not from the Lord,but from self in the Lord.
We have to be willing to pay the price to have what we so desire! When you ride in an airplane you can ride coach,but in order to ride first class, you must be willing to pay the price to ride there! So it is with the believer. SO!!! I the least of the brethen in Christ Jesus encourage you to pay the price to ride first class! For indeed the ride in Christ Jesus is much more fuller,and more joyful when your mind is set in him,rather then in others, or self!
For my brothers and sisters,one cannot give to others what one does not have to give! HAVE something to give!! Get your mindset upon the Word, so others can receive the result of your belief in your very faith! STAYING free through Christ Jesus because of it! Freedom is established through God's Word but NOT!!!! to turn ones freedom for opportinuity for the flesh!! BUT through LOVE!!! Serving one another!! amen!! ( gal 5:13-15) To love you neighbor you first have to learn how you stay loved by God in yourself!! This is what a mindset in Christ Jesus does! And the result is leading others to recive such a wonderful gift as a mind set in Jesus! Blessing all!