Real Italian Pizza

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Mar 30, 2021
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#1
Ok - I may be setting myself up for a giant disappointment, but this is worth the risk.

IN MY opinion, there is no better food I've ever had than the pizza I would eat in restaurants around northern Italy, (around Venice and Pordenone). One day, when all this mess is done and Christ tarries, I'm flying back there just to have the pizza!

I would love to have a pizza recipe from someone who has been there, knows what I'm talking about, and knows what they're doing in this regard.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,611
265
83
#3
Oh, they're nice indeed. Recall the potato pizza I ate in Rome once. Unforgettable - and undoable. The lady is very correct about US style, and basically most non-Italian, pizzas.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,611
265
83
#5
My gosh, my wife and I were in tears just seeing the expression on the girls face when she bit into the Italian pizza. To anyone reading this - it is so worth the flight! My gosh yes!!
Itr's all in the bread, ain't it? Ye gotta have good raw ingridients, make that perfect blend and get the right thickness and crispyness - not too crispy. Most "pizzas" out there in the shops are really only warm sandwiches (although sometimes taste nice) in comparision.
 
Mar 30, 2021
84
44
18
#6
Itr's all in the bread, ain't it? Ye gotta have good raw ingridients, make that perfect blend and get the right thickness and crispyness - not too crispy. Most "pizzas" out there in the shops are really only warm sandwiches (although sometimes taste nice) in comparision.
It's all in the bread - yes, and the oven. I'd love to get enough work done around my place to be able to think seriously about building a brick oven outside - I have the masonry skills, but not enough time right now! Wonder if you can order pizza dough from Italy?
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,611
265
83
#7
It's all in the bread - yes, and the oven. I'd love to get enough work done around my place to be able to think seriously about building a brick oven outside - I have the masonry skills, but not enough time right now! Wonder if you can order pizza dough from Italy?
Prolly you can. Not heard of people doing such though and it's far off if you're in the US. DeLallo is quiet popular I'd think. Easy to use too. However not totally sugar-free as far as I know.
 
Mar 30, 2021
84
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#8
Prolly you can. Not heard of people doing such though and it's far off if you're in the US. DeLallo is quiet popular I'd think. Easy to use too. However not totally sugar-free as far as I know.
Just went to the DeLallo web site - had not heard of them before - we will definitely try them! Thanks so much!
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
5,070
2,508
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#9
Flour, salt, yeast, water, how can we not get that right here? I know when I put a touch of salt on an apple, the Himalayan salt has so much MORE effect without the American additives to salt, and I hear Celtic Salt is the go to salt for many. what type olive oil for the dough? Do we really get true olive oil anyway?
I have heard all of King Arthur Flour is made with hard wheat, not soft wheat, and that a large majority of our fine American Hard Red wheat goes to Italy, perhaps that is a difference.
Blessings
 
Mar 30, 2021
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#10
Hey - thanks for responding. My wife and I are going to make a pilgrimage to Pittsburg to visit the DeLallo store over there next month - not that far from us. You know, I've got a couple of acres I'm not doing anything with - always wanted to raise some wheat - wonder how much trouble it is to grind your own wheat! That would be cool!
 

JohnDB

Active member
Jan 16, 2021
417
245
43
#11
Pizza dough is best when it's made with high gluten flour (above 14% protein)
A little oil, sugar and salt...but it needs to be rather lean on the oil.

Bread flour (like King Arthur) is ok...but it just isn't chewy enough for most people.

I've heard of using egg whites (no yolks) to help increase the protein content in the dough for a harder crust. I've done it for crusty breads but not pizza. All purpose flour has the same amount of protein as semolina flour (used to make pasta) but the quality of the gluten in semolina is far better for the stretching. But high gluten breath flour can be as high as 17% or more depending upon a host of factors. I prefer bleached, enriched, and bromated for the looks and rise.
Superlative was the brand name I used most often. The owner complained about it's cost and I told him that if he could find a replacement that was equal specifications I'd try it...but if it failed he was going to have to help me make the next batch that day. I wouldn't have the time. So we never found a cheaper replacement. (50 lb bags)

That flame fired oven is what makes a pizza really good. It can be wood, coal or natural gas...but that unrelenting rock surface is definitely needed for that wonderful crust.

NY and Chicago has that great coal fired pizza...tastes like petroleum and it takes a bit of getting used to...but it isn't bad at all....I kinda miss those pies.

California got the whole wood fired oven thing going. Hardwoods do better than evergreen woods do...so I have no idea how they got going with that.

But either one is good in it's own right.

Getting the oven right is the difficult part. (If doing it yourself) I'm not a mortar person (great grandfather's were as well as grandpa...but I never learned it)

I've worked with a couple of different ones and some are definitely better than others with larger even heat spots than the other ones.
Some are bad about burning one side but leaving the other side almost raw.

(I was cooking professionally when the craze for gourmet pizza was just getting started... I stopped just after that)

Flour/wheat is a commodity these days...bought and sold by the boxcar by the purveyors of it...ConAgra is one I remember off the top of my head...there are others but their names are escaping me. Most places like Pillsbury, Gold Medal and Kellogg's use contracts for their grain needs. Just like Perdue uses contracts for their chickens. Meaning they provide the chicks and feed...the farmers just provide the farm. Same thing for wheat. They provide seed, fertilizers and pesticides and then pay for the grain when received. (Below market but market based and still profitable)

I've seen a few independent farmers growing wheat...I'm guessing that the co-op rents the farm implements needed to harvest. Never tried grinding wheat but I doubt it is difficult. A lot of work maybe but not difficult.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
5,070
2,508
113
#12
I have a Corona grain mill, it is too much work!
 
Mar 30, 2021
84
44
18
#13
Pizza dough is best when it's made with high gluten flour (above 14% protein)
A little oil, sugar and salt...but it needs to be rather lean on the oil.

Bread flour (like King Arthur) is ok...but it just isn't chewy enough for most people.

I've heard of using egg whites (no yolks) to help increase the protein content in the dough for a harder crust. I've done it for crusty breads but not pizza. All purpose flour has the same amount of protein as semolina flour (used to make pasta) but the quality of the gluten in semolina is far better for the stretching. But high gluten breath flour can be as high as 17% or more depending upon a host of factors. I prefer bleached, enriched, and bromated for the looks and rise.
Superlative was the brand name I used most often. The owner complained about it's cost and I told him that if he could find a replacement that was equal specifications I'd try it...but if it failed he was going to have to help me make the next batch that day. I wouldn't have the time. So we never found a cheaper replacement. (50 lb bags)

That flame fired oven is what makes a pizza really good. It can be wood, coal or natural gas...but that unrelenting rock surface is definitely needed for that wonderful crust.

NY and Chicago has that great coal fired pizza...tastes like petroleum and it takes a bit of getting used to...but it isn't bad at all....I kinda miss those pies.

California got the whole wood fired oven thing going. Hardwoods do better than evergreen woods do...so I have no idea how they got going with that.

But either one is good in it's own right.

Getting the oven right is the difficult part. (If doing it yourself) I'm not a mortar person (great grandfather's were as well as grandpa...but I never learned it)

I've worked with a couple of different ones and some are definitely better than others with larger even heat spots than the other ones.
Some are bad about burning one side but leaving the other side almost raw.

(I was cooking professionally when the craze for gourmet pizza was just getting started... I stopped just after that)

Flour/wheat is a commodity these days...bought and sold by the boxcar by the purveyors of it...ConAgra is one I remember off the top of my head...there are others but their names are escaping me. Most places like Pillsbury, Gold Medal and Kellogg's use contracts for their grain needs. Just like Perdue uses contracts for their chickens. Meaning they provide the chicks and feed...the farmers just provide the farm. Same thing for wheat. They provide seed, fertilizers and pesticides and then pay for the grain when received. (Below market but market based and still profitable)

I've seen a few independent farmers growing wheat...I'm guessing that the co-op rents the farm implements needed to harvest. Never tried grinding wheat but I doubt it is difficult. A lot of work maybe but not difficult.
Hey John - really appreciate your input! I just remembered the search word I've been trying to think of for the last few days. Years ago the magazine Smithsonian ran an article on "Heritage Wheat". Just did a google search on it and have found one good place, I think, to order seeds from - growseed.org. As that website says, "The Heritage Grain Conservancy is a farmer-owned cooperative to collect, conserve and restore delicious world heritage grains on the verge of extinction." It is expensive to order, but I think I'd like to try that. Actually, I'm seeing a whole bunch of heritage wheat sites, now. Hmm. Very interesting.

Anyway, you have a great day!
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
5,070
2,508
113
#15
I see King Arthur Flour is putting the % of gluten on the front of the package although I don't see any that high, perhaps add gluten to it? I thought it was about resting the dough, thank you friend.
 

JohnDB

Active member
Jan 16, 2021
417
245
43
#16
I see King Arthur Flour is putting the % of gluten on the front of the package although I don't see any that high, perhaps add gluten to it? I thought it was about resting the dough, thank you friend.
High gluten bread flour isn't available in the local grocery stores. For that stuff you will need a restaurant supply store or something along those lines.

Sam's club or Costco might have a bag...just don't expect it to be a small one. 50 lb bags of flour are pretty standard. The grocery stores usually carry 5 lb bags. But...it's great if you make a lot of bread. I have a recipe that uses 3lbs at a batch. It makes 3 loaves at a time. And when you have a few munchers running around it still doesn't last long. (Something about the smell of fresh baked bread draws them like flies)

And when I do pizza crusts I use a recipe that uses about half that amount of the flour...but then I proof, form and pre-bake the crusts and freeze them.
Then pull them out later as I wish. (Makes like 8-10 pizza shells)
 

Mak33

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2019
317
330
63
#18
Ok - I may be setting myself up for a giant disappointment, but this is worth the risk.

IN MY opinion, there is no better food I've ever had than the pizza I would eat in restaurants around northern Italy, (around Venice and Pordenone). One day, when all this mess is done and Christ tarries, I'm flying back there just to have the pizza!

I would love to have a pizza recipe from someone who has been there, knows what I'm talking about, and knows what they're doing in this regard.
It's the best! Nothing compares to their fresh Italian ingredients, Pizza, Pasta, Bruschetta! ❤️❤️❤️