Any Moral Government people out there?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#21
Aug 2, 2009
24,602
4,273
113
#21
Speaking of governments and morals, I just had a thought about an old nursery rhyme and how it eerily depicts the perilous financial crisis that the world is facing today in the US and Europe (both of which have governments facing bankruptcy). Right now, powerful nations are wondering how they will continue to provide basic services to their people that they have provided for hundreds of years, and there is no solution in sight.

Humpty Dumpty (an old english nursery rhyme that first appeared in 1803)

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall (could this be an eery reference to Wall Street)
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall (stock market crash and global recesssion, a.k.a. falling sales of goods and services all over the world)
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#25
#25
Hadn't really heard of Moral Government Theology, so I looked up a bit of stuff, I found this (amongst otherS) that was pretty much to the point.

Gotquestions.org said:
............

First, let’s examine the idea of the power of contrary choice in regard to mankind. The proponents of moral government theology claim that humans are able to fulfill the law, and we are not bound by a sin nature that continually wants to sin. Further, through our good choices and an iron will, mankind can turn away from sin, and we can achieve perfection if we work hard enough to make good choices. All these ideas directly contradict the Bible, which sets forth a completely different picture of man in his natural state. We are, by nature, objects of wrath (Ephesians 2:3) and dead in our transgressions and sins (Ephesians 2:1). A dead person cannot make choices of any kind, and a spiritually dead person most certainly cannot make a choice for God and His righteousness until he has been made a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). While we are still in our old sin nature, we are at war with God and we can’t choose to stop warring. Romans 8:7-8 tells us that “the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God” (italics added).


..................

Second, the moral government theology impugns God’s character and recreates Him in the likeness of man. Contrary to moral government theology’s claims, the Bible declares that God does not change His mind, He is not surprised by anything that happens, and what He has foreordained will come to pass (Isaiah 14:24). God is—by His very nature:

omniscient (all-knowing): “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!” (Romans 11:33);

omnipotent (all-powerful): "Ah, Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you” (Jeremiah 32:17);

immutable (unchanging): “I am the Lord; I change not” (Malachi 3:6); and

sovereign (in complete control of every atom in the universe): “For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! (Romans 11:36).
What is moral government theology? <---- click
Click to expand...
Hmmm, sounds to me like it's a no-go.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
#26
#26
Catlynn said:
Harry Conn Moral Government Videos
Click to expand...
Moral Government Theology denies penal substitutionary atonement, salvation by faith alone, imputed righteusness, biblical regeneration, and original sin. It is not Christian. It is Pelagian in nature, and is basically works oriented theology. They also teach a view of God called open theism, which reduces God to the level of humanity. Various heretical street and campus preachers nowadays teach it, including Jesse Morrell, Kerrigan Skelly, Jed Smock and Micah Armstrong. Some of the original teachers of it include Gordon C. Olson, Winkey Pratney, and Harry Conn. A book was written about this by C. Calvin Beisner called Evangelical Heathenism: Examining Contemporary Revivalism.

Here is an article about this by Christian Research Institute:

The False God and Gospel of Moral Government Theology - Christian Research Institute

I would NOT recommend watching these videos.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
#27
#27
jimmydiggs said:
Hadn't really heard of Moral Government Theology, so I looked up a bit of stuff, I found this (amongst otherS) that was pretty much to the point.



Hmmm, sounds to me like it's a no-go.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you have some discernment. Very false doctrine...rat poison..stay away from it.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
#28
#28
Catlynn said:
The Moral Government of God by N. W. Taylor: Vol. 1 Table of Contents
Click to expand...
Moral Government Theology denies penal substitutionary atonement, salvation by faith alone, imputed righteusness, biblical regeneration, and original sin. It is not Christian. It is Pelagian in nature, and is basically works oriented theology. They also teach a view of God called open theism, which reduces God to the level of humanity. Various heretical street and campus preachers nowadays teach it, including Jesse Morrell, Kerrigan Skelly, Jed Smock and Micah Armstrong. Some of the original teachers of it include Gordon C. Olson, Winkey Pratney, and Harry Conn. A book was written about this by C. Calvin Beisner called Evangelical Heathenism: Examining Contemporary Revivalism.

Here is an article about this by Christian Research Institute:

The False God and Gospel of Moral Government Theology - Christian Research Institute
 
S

sparkman

Guest
#29
#29
Moral Government Theology denies penal substitutionary atonement, salvation by faith alone, imputed righteusness, biblical regeneration, and original sin. It is not Christian. It is Pelagian in nature, and is basically works oriented theology. They also teach a view of God called open theism, which reduces God to the level of humanity. Various heretical street and campus preachers nowadays teach it, including Jesse Morrell, Kerrigan Skelly, Jed Smock and Micah Armstrong. Some of the original teachers of it include Gordon C. Olson, Winkey Pratney, and Harry Conn. A book was written about this by C. Calvin Beisner called Evangelical Heathenism: Examining Contemporary Revivalism.

Here is an article about this by Christian Research Institute:

The False God and Gospel of Moral Government Theology - Christian Research Institute


Catlynn said:
Ah ok. :)
This guy has Harry Conn's full lecture on MG. I'd suggest at least checking out Lecture 1 Part 1 for now.
http://m.youtube.com/#/profile?desk...}&start=0&user=mgtheology&autoplay=True&gl=US
Click to expand...
 
S

sparkman

Guest
#30
#30
TheGrungeDiva said:
I guess I haven't heard of "Open Theism" either.

I found this in wikipedia (not that that is a reliable source, but it can give me a starting point):


This sounds like an interesting theory.

I have problems with a lot of the aspects of the substitution theory. I feel it makes God out to be a vengeful, wrathful being, without the love that Jesus taught. The concept that anyone could purchase anything from God with blood as a currency just seems wrong. I subscribe to the "Christus Victor" theory myself.

I would like to hear more from others on this topic.
Click to expand...
Moral Government Theology denies penal substitutionary atonement, salvation by faith alone, imputed righteusness, biblical regeneration, and original sin. It is not Christian. It is Pelagian in nature, and is basically works oriented theology. They also teach a view of God called open theism, which reduces God to the level of humanity. Various heretical street and campus preachers nowadays teach it, including Jesse Morrell, Kerrigan Skelly, Jed Smock and Micah Armstrong. Some of the original teachers of it include Gordon C. Olson, Winkey Pratney, and Harry Conn. A book was written about this by C. Calvin Beisner called Evangelical Heathenism: Examining Contemporary Revivalism.

Here is an article about this by Christian Research Institute:

The False God and Gospel of Moral Government Theology - Christian Research Institute
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#31
Sep 4, 2013
30,429
6,657
113
#31
Catlynn said:
Moral Government sort of falls under Open Theism but also stands on it's own. I know there are many negative views on open theism so I don't want to strictly put it into that category. It's basically the way God governs His creation and what we, as moral beings, are held accountable for.
Click to expand...
Where I come from that's called the Holy Bible
 
You must log in or register to reply here.