Are Christians Blind?

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Feb 27, 2019
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#21
Do you actually believe that anyone is actually going to consider your OP and apply it to their life? The chance of that happening is less than zero. God gave general guidance to the role of man in regards to certain matters pertaining to the earth. Each Christian is a unique creation in Christ and they ain't going to read your OP and then try to subdue the world. Someone asking for God's will for their life is seeking particular guidance that is based on who they are and what they are about. They may however be fruitful and multiply but even that can become problematic in today's troubled world.
@turist

Hi, turist -

Do you actually believe that anyone is actually going to consider your OP and apply it to their life?
I have no beliefs in regards to whether or not anyone applies anything I have written.

The chance of that happening is less than zero.
What is the basis for this claim?

Each Christian is a unique creation in Christ and they ain't going to read your OP and then try to subdue the world.
This is a conclusion that has been made on the basis of a weak premises. It is a fallacy of defective induction.

They may however be fruitful and multiply but even that can become problematic in today's troubled world.
I am not sure what you are responding to ... I never made any claims about the problematic nature of pursuing the vision our Father has for us. Perhaps, this is a "straw man" argument? Nonetheless, thanks for your input on this matter.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#22
That is hardly the answer to a Christian asking God for direction in their life.
What is the basis for this statement?

OK, all of that stuff was accomplished centuries ago, what happens next.
All of what stuff was accomplished centuries ago?

Subduing the earth and dominion over fish, birds animals, etch.

Your answer to the question about God's will for one's life is borderline ridiculous.
What is the basis for this statement?

Your claim that Christian's are blind for asking for God's will for their life while offering up your own guidance from Genesis.

You have to open your eyes because in regards to understanding scripture you are blind as a bat.
What is the basis for this statement?
Because of your claim that Christians are blind for seeking God's will for their life. Everyone is not suited for the same purpose in life, the Holy Spirit gives gifts that are unique to the purpose in mind for each individual. Your spiritual insight is seriously lacking. I'm not saying that you are not sincere though or are a bad person but you might want to work on your inter-personal skills so that you may offer pertinent, timely counsel
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#23
@turist

Hi, turist -

Do you actually believe that anyone is actually going to consider your OP and apply it to their life?
I have no beliefs in regards to whether or not anyone applies anything I have written.

The chance of that happening is less than zero.
What is the basis for this claim?

Each Christian is a unique creation in Christ and they ain't going to read your OP and then try to subdue the world.
This is a conclusion that has been made on the basis of a weak premises. It is a fallacy of defective induction.

They may however be fruitful and multiply but even that can become problematic in today's troubled world.
I am not sure what you are responding to ... I never made any claims about the problematic nature of pursuing the vision our Father has for us. Perhaps, this is a "straw man" argument? Nonetheless, thanks for your input on this matter.
OK, I believe we are done here in regards to this particular OP.
 
Feb 27, 2019
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#24
OK, I believe we are done here in regards to this particular OP.
Okay ... so let's recap:

I shared my thesis that people who read Genesis and then later ask what is God's will for their lives are blind. The basis for my assertion that they are blind is that our Father shared His will very plainly in Genesis. I then demonstrated our Father sharing His will in Genesis by quoting what He said in Genesis.

The next step I took was to encourage Christians to pursue the vision our Father laid out for us in Genesis. In addition, I provided additional Scriptural references to underscore the magnitude of that vision. In response, tourist took a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand was avoided by instead attacking my character, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. It was classic ad hominem.

Here are the statements made by tourist about my character:
  • Apparently, you are living in some sort of fantasy world.
  • Your answer to the question about God's will for one's life is borderline ridiculous.
  • You have to open your eyes because in regards to understanding scripture you are blind as a bat.
  • Your spiritual insight is seriously lacking.
The above claims were made about me without warrant. My hope is that those reading this post don't repeat this ineffective approach at discourse. God bless! :)
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#25
Okay ... so let's recap:

I shared my thesis that people who read Genesis and then later ask what is God's will for their lives are blind. The basis for my assertion that they are blind is that our Father shared His will very plainly in Genesis. I then demonstrated our Father sharing His will in Genesis by quoting what He said in Genesis.

The next step I took was to encourage Christians to pursue the vision our Father laid out for us in Genesis. In addition, I provided additional Scriptural references to underscore the magnitude of that vision. In response, tourist took a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand was avoided by instead attacking my character, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. It was classic ad hominem.

Here are the statements made by tourist about my character:
  • Apparently, you are living in some sort of fantasy world.
  • Your answer to the question about God's will for one's life is borderline ridiculous.
  • You have to open your eyes because in regards to understanding scripture you are blind as a bat.
  • Your spiritual insight is seriously lacking.
The above claims were made about me without warrant. My hope is that those reading this post don't repeat this ineffective approach at discourse. God bless! :)
Those statements of mine in no way reflect your character. I thought that I made that clear in my last post to you. You yourself made a unwarranted blanket statement that Christians are blind if they have to ask for God's will in their life. I do wish you well in your endeavor to subdue the world, becoming dominant over all of the birds of the air, the fish in the sea and the animals that live both in water and dry land, and being fruitful and multiply. In regards to establishing God's will for your life you are all set. As for myself, I already know God's will for my life so I'm all set too. We're both good.
 
Feb 27, 2019
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#26
Because of your claim that Christians are blind for seeking God's will for their life. Everyone is not suited for the same purpose in life, the Holy Spirit gives gifts that are unique to the purpose in mind for each individual. Your spiritual insight is seriously lacking. I'm not saying that you are not sincere though or are a bad person but you might want to work on your inter-personal skills so that you may offer pertinent, timely counsel
@tourist

Hi, tourist -

Because of your claim that Christians are blind for seeking God's will for their life.
I made no such claim. My claim is this:

Christians who read Genesis and then later ask what is God's will for their lives are blind.​


Everyone is not suited for the same purpose in life, the Holy Spirit gives gifts that are unique to the purpose in mind for each individual.
Agreed.


Your spiritual insight is seriously lacking.
What is the basis for this claim?


You might want to work on your inter-personal skills so that you may offer pertinent, timely counsel.
I am not sure where this is coming from ... perhaps, this statement is coming from your misunderstanding of my claim.


xjohnson: All of what stuff was accomplished centuries ago?
tourist: Subduing the earth and dominion over fish, birds animals, etch.
Subduing the earth is about Christians bringing the world under their control. I am not convinced this was accomplished centuries ago, given the current situation. Regarding dominion over fish and more happened centuries ago, I'd be willing to agree with you on this, based on you and I having the same understanding of what "dominion" means.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#27
@tourist

Hi, tourist -

Because of your claim that Christians are blind for seeking God's will for their life.
I made no such claim. My claim is this:
Christians who read Genesis and then later ask what is God's will for their lives are blind.​


Everyone is not suited for the same purpose in life, the Holy Spirit gives gifts that are unique to the purpose in mind for each individual.
Agreed.


Your spiritual insight is seriously lacking.
What is the basis for this claim?


You might want to work on your inter-personal skills so that you may offer pertinent, timely counsel.
I am not sure where this is coming from ... perhaps, this statement is coming from your misunderstanding of my claim.


xjohnson: All of what stuff was accomplished centuries ago?
tourist: Subduing the earth and dominion over fish, birds animals, etch.
Subduing the earth is about Christians bringing the world under their control. I am not convinced this was accomplished centuries ago, given the current situation. Regarding dominion over fish and more happened centuries ago, I'd be willing to agree with you on this, based on you and I having the same understanding of what "dominion" means.
I am glad that we cleared this up. Moving forward now...
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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#28
Hey man, I got something in my eye! Does that mean i'm a blind christian?
 
Mar 3, 2019
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#30
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other, Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

What Jesus says is working for money and serving God is not possible. Yes I am saying if you work for a paycheck and you say you serve God, you are disobeying what Jesus says. Jesus says...in Luke 12:22-34

Do Not Worry or Be Fearful
And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what he shall eat; neither for the body, what he shall put on. The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment. Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take thought for the rest?

To explain Luke 12:22-26
The ravens don’t have jobs or houses, yet God provides everything they need, aren’t you worth much more than these creatures? And who can add more years to themselves? Or there life? Why worry about such things when you can’t even do anything about the least of all these? (Food, shelter, clothes).

Luke 12:27-31 (Continued)
Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and tomorrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek first the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I believe Jesus makes it very clear on what we need to do as Christians, stop serving money (stop working for money, quit your job) stop worrying where your going to get your next meal, or where you are going to sleep, Jesus says the world worry’s about such things, you are not supposed to be a part of this world. Stop relying on money, using money is ok, but working for it is not. Stop putting your faith in a worldly system and preach the Gospel full time, listen to Jesus.

The second to last verse Luke 12:33
Sell what you have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

Do you see what Jesus is saying? Every single Christian did what Jesus commands. There was no special person who didn’t sell all and leave everything, preaching the gospel 24/7. Your job is to preach his word, and he gives you the essentials you need. 1 Timothy 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. Jesus was never a carpenter the only verse you can see is his father being a carpenter in Mark 6:3. Jesus started preaching when he was 12 Year’s old according to scripture, in Luke 42-49. He never served (work for) money, he did use money though, his treasurer was Judas (the one who betrayed him).


Definition of Forsaketh according to Jesus is found in all the gospels, but I am going to use Mark 10:17-21 for this claim.

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

The definition is clear consistently through all 4 of the gospels. The Word of God has spoken and commands this as a requirement to inherit eternal life with him. Jesus Christ has the ultimate authority in the Bible, the Old Testament does not teach us how to live as Christ did, that is why the New Testament (Jesus Christ’s teachings more importantly) applies to us, hence forth New Testament. Notice Jesus told him he LACKED one thing, now you can say this only applies to the rich man, but that is a lie. It applies to everyone that truly loves Jesus. In the rest of the scripture, right around Luke 14:33 Jesus addressed the entire multitude of people, rich and poor, women, children all kinds of people. Here it is.


-The Cost of Discipleship- Luke 14:25-27
And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Reflecting of Luke 14:33-Acts 2:45-47 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man hath need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Reflecting of Luke 14:33 again, Matthew 13:44-46

-The Treasure and the Goodly Pearl-
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

These are the commands of Jesus in a parable, the man sold everything to inherit eternal life. Now I have heard the arguments against what Jesus commands, the biggest one is people want to point to Paul and say he has a higher authority than God in the flesh and they say, “Paul worked as a tent maker!” So sense he worked for money it’s ok. Really? I would recommend that you only follow Jesus and what he says. But let’s take a look at this argument.

Acts 18:3-5
And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by there occupation they were tentmakers. And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Paul worked at making tents with a couple other Jews while preaching the gospel, but reading it in the entire context, two other disciples came along and he was pricked in his spirit and decided to leave to preach the Gospel full time once again. Now this passage does not say he labored (worked, served) for money, all it says was he was creating tents, even if he did work for money, he left to preach to the Gentiles after he realized he was in the wrong.

Another passage of scripture people use as a excuse to not obey Jesus is....
1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

This is taking scripture out of context, the title of this section of verses is called...
-Provisions for Widows-
Verses 5:1-10 the last verse says “Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she has longed strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Let’s compare Jesus teachings with 1 Timothy 5:10, then we can understand what 5:8 means.
“Brought up children”...- Matthew 18:5 “And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.”’ “If she hath lodged strangers”...Luke 14:13 “But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind. (The first Christians utilized money to rent a place or stayed at someone else’s place if invited in. Matthew 10:14). “If she have washed the saints’ feet”-Matthew 22:32 “But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren” (I believe this applies to every follower of Jesus, that we should strengthen each other). “If she have relieved the afflicted,”...Mark 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.”

This explains that Timothy was simply obeying Jesus Christ’s commands, including the widows. Now 1 Timothy 5:8 is saying work as in working to build Jesus Christ’s kingdom, working serving Jesus and obeying his commands. When you deny the faith, what it is really saying is your denying that God will provide all your needs when preaching the word. If you don’t have faith in what Jesus says, how in the world do you believe he’s going to resurrect you from the dead? There is no room for Luke warm Christians. You either listen to Jesus or you will be grinded to powder. Jesus says they would reject the corner stone of his teachings. This is essentiall and required by every follower of Christ. FORSAKETH ALL!

I hope God leads me to at least one individual that’s hears his word.

Mark 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear
 
Feb 27, 2019
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#31
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

This is essentiall and required by every follower of Christ. FORSAKETH ALL!

I hope God leads me to at least one individual that’s hears his word.

Mark 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear

@JesusOnly777

Hi, JesusOnly777 -

Thanks for your reply. It's good to know there are others who see the world through the eyes of Scripture.

I agree with your assessment. However, there are additional Scriptures that further refine our understanding of the messages conveyed by the Scriptures you have given. I'd like to defer that discourse until later, because I'd like to ask you some questions to determine the extent to which the Scriptures you've referenced apply.

Let's pick Luke 14:33:

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.​

My question is: does the word "all" in Luke 14:33 really mean "all"? For example, I own clothes. Should I forsake my clothes so that I share the Gospel with others in the nude? Moreover, I have a toothbrush. Should I forsake my toothbrush (developing poor oral hygiene in the process) so that I share the Gospel with others, having bad breath and tooth decay in the process?

Just as I have taken your post seriously, please take my questions seriously, and answer them seriously so that I know the extent to which the Scriptures apply. Thanks in advance.
 
Feb 27, 2019
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#32
I am glad that we cleared this up. Moving forward now...
@tourist

Hi, tourist -

There is a youtube video of two gentlemen who share my worldview in general. I'd like to get your reaction to their unique Christian perspective. The video is here. Thanks in advance.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#33
@tourist

Hi, tourist -

There is a youtube video of two gentlemen who share my worldview in general. I'd like to get your reaction to their unique Christian perspective. The video is here. Thanks in advance.
The link to the video in your post is not working otherwise I would give it consideration. Each morning I pray for God's will and desire to be shown to me for that particular day and the courage to carry on my assigned tasks. I also pray for the wisdom and knowledge to understand how what I do today will affect what happens tomorrow. That is basically how I operate.

I believe the only bone of contention that exists between us is how you inferred in your OP that Christians are blind just because they do not adhere to your particular view on praying for God's will for their lives. While this did not settle well with me that is not an excuse for me to treat you harshly in my replies and for that I am truly sorry.

Let us go in peace now brother because all is good. :)
 
Mar 3, 2019
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#34
@JesusOnly777

Hi, JesusOnly777 -

Thanks for your reply. It's good to know there are others who see the world through the eyes of Scripture.

I agree with your assessment. However, there are additional Scriptures that further refine our understanding of the messages conveyed by the Scriptures you have given. I'd like to defer that discourse until later, because I'd like to ask you some questions to determine the extent to which the Scriptures you've referenced apply.

Let's pick Luke 14:33:

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.​

My question is: does the word "all" in Luke 14:33 really mean "all"? For example, I own clothes. Should I forsake my clothes so that I share the Gospel with others in the nude? Moreover, I have a toothbrush. Should I forsake my toothbrush (developing poor oral hygiene in the process) so that I share the Gospel with others, having bad breath and tooth decay in the process?

Just as I have taken your post seriously, please take my questions seriously, and answer them seriously so that I know the extent to which the Scriptures apply. Thanks in advance.
Hello brother.

To answer your questions Luke 14:33, Luke 5:11 & Acts 4:32-37, Acts 2:45-47.
It seems Jesus is dealing with a couple things when selling houses, lands, materials. One to not have belongings in the earth that you would claim to be yours, (Matthew 6:19-20) and two to be free from the world to preach the gospel. (John 15:19) Also this is the command of God in the Flesh, the Word of God (Revelation 19:11-13) the New Testament, the laws fulfilled. The verses up top are prove of Jesus that these commands apply to everyone. The word whosoever is used, which applies to everyone. If you’re running around naked preaching, this is disobedience to Jesus commands, he obviously wants you to be civil, you are allowed to have money, clothes, food, drink because God provides that after you forsake all (Matthew 6:33). Paul had paper a pen, ink, food, clothing. But they never stored such things or even worked to have these things, they where provided from God because they where preaching the gospel.

Do you understand what Jesus means now brother? We are not supposed to be in the world because you will love the world more than God. Read the scripture I gave you and if God has chosen you to see (John 15:16) then you will see.

I hope I answered your questions seriously enough, because it is very important to understand this.
 
Feb 27, 2019
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#35
The link to the video in your post is not working otherwise I would give it consideration. Each morning I pray for God's will and desire to be shown to me for that particular day and the courage to carry on my assigned tasks. I also pray for the wisdom and knowledge to understand how what I do today will affect what happens tomorrow. That is basically how I operate.

I believe the only bone of contention that exists between us is how you inferred in your OP that Christians are blind just because they do not adhere to your particular view on praying for God's will for their lives. While this did not settle well with me that is not an excuse for me to treat you harshly in my replies and for that I am truly sorry.

Let us go in peace now brother because all is good. :)
@tourist

Hi, tourist -

Apology accepted.

My perspective is that I may disagree with other Christians (or other Christians may disagree with me), but I have to remember that they are not my enemies; we are all on the same page - maybe on a different paragraph - but our Father has declared us to be family. So, I genuinely accept your apology. No problem at all. Be blessed.

The address to the youtube page is:
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
3,954
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#36
I think the Christians who physically can't see are blind.
 

Miri

The Thingy Member
Jul 22, 2012
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UK age 50
#37
In answer to the OP I suppose I had better
go out quick and buy me a 12 bore shot gun.
Take on a cave woman persona go hunting all those beasties and subdue them. Then go
hunting for a man and start popping our babies quick! Lol
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
3,954
1,183
113
#38
In answer to the OP I suppose I had better
go out quick and buy me a 12 bore shot gun.
Take on a cave woman persona go hunting all those beasties and subdue them. Then go
hunting for a man and start popping our babies quick! Lol

I hope you post pics. I can't wait to see you wearing a saber tooth tiger skin!