Is it OK to lie?

I think she is quite a bit smarter than you are, Lynn.

She knows I have never told her, or anyone, what to believe. (That is just for Protestant Popes) She also knows that my one encouragement to teens is to go directly to the Bible and see if what they are being told (by people like you) they are to believe, is REALLY what the Bible says.

In this case, we adults have all been raised to "know" that the 9th Commandment says: "Thou shalt not lie!" But, does it say that? Does it? None of us can know unless we go read EVERY WORD of it, for ourselves.

It turns out that is not what it says.

And as the many Biblical examples that I have posted demonstrate, it isn't even what it means...... since numerous people approved by God actually did tell straight-up lies in the Bible, and many others did so by subterfuge and deception.

Demi and the other people who are most important to me here, the younger people, know that my primary objective is to help them make sure they don't have to struggle through the same tangled weeds many of us have had to cut ourselves free from.

And beginning by understanding that we have been sold a bunch of mistaken things as pure fact is most easily done in this case, by showing this Commandment for what it was originally intended to be.......... an understanding of how we are to treat others fairly.

Willie,
you are 'closer' on the 9th Commandment - it's more about 'swearing falsely, bearing false witness,
such as in a 'court case'.

Rehab told a 'lie' in order to 'save lives', the 'lie' was still a 'sin', but it's up to Jesus to Judge
the 'motive' - if we 'lie' to save a life, that is totally different than telling a lie to 'hurt someone',
or make any kind of 'gain' emotionally-financially-self gain, this is a very different category -
there are the weightier matters' of the Law, and there are the 'least and greatest Commandments'...

That's the thing. We do not have to lie to save a life. There are no situational ethics.

I've read a lot of the thread since I posted. I agree with you willie. I think we have made a law where a law doesn't exist. And I would be okay with letting God judge that if I'm wrong because He sees my heart in any given matter.

Will, you very well know that neither one of us are allowed to engage in 'debate' for it is unprofitable...

your 'motive' is becoming clear as it is a personal 'demon' that you are trying to deal with,
and the 'both' of us know very well about such things, as this is the crux of our refining, -
the courage to put off and put on,(obedience at any cost, no matter what any one else thinks,
except our Saviour)...and yes, it is a 'battle', which we will eventually win, day-by-day,when we
submit our old-worldly-ways to His Holy Ways, once we understand and accept and obey them,
and not give up,..,.
thus obedience, which we have been taught comes with our Faith, as we use what we have
been given by our Holy Master, and then given more Faith as we go along and along in order to
discern ourselves and grow-up into Christ's ways...Faith, Hope, personal assurance are
always the order of our ways, if we have and hold fast to the ways that The Holy Spirit
is trying to teach us...it's quite the challenge Brother, but it is the one that we must master,
in order to be allowed to walk in His Holy, Precious, Light...

I also think you're a bad judge of "smarts." No, you don't tell anyone what to believe. You keep insinuating what we "should" believe based on your personal way of looking at it. Case in point, this little sermon.

You're still under the assumption that you alone think correctly, and the rest of us must be guided to it.

It's kind of like a turtle race. If you want the turtle to get to the finishing line, you have to nudge it a little time after time, because turtles don't care about finishing lines. You think you can nudge the vast majority of people little by little, as they're walking along to get them where you want to go.

The problem comes in that your finishing line is not God's finishing line. You don't want people to go to God's finishing line. His finishing line isn't as important to you as yours, and yours has a label to it. "The World."

You tend to think it's your responsibility to get people to be as smart as you. Also, not a goal to believers. Real believers anyway. Underhanded is not fair.

My further thought was concerning a poster saying we aren't to bear false witness against anyone.
Rahab was not telling a lie about those men who came to slaughter the other men. She wasn't bearing false witness against them. If anything, a tenuous case could be made that she was bearing false witness against the men she was hiding! It would be a silly case to make, but it would stand at least a little better than to say she was bearing false witness against the ones doing the chasing down!

Just curious truly....How does this it's o.k. to lie sometimes work?

O.K. in a court of law after you've been sworn in? Cause maybe you are protecting someone's life? When the court catches you in the lie then what?

O.k. to lie to the FBI, CIA or any other big investigative service? Cause I was protecting someone... I'll talk it over with how I didn't lie to my cell mate...later

O.K. to lie to God? After all I was protecting someone? When is it really o.k.? I'm asking you Willie.

I know we aren't the same religion, but is that actually how you guys read the Bible?

Read the full story. I knew Demi is a Bible reader and would not have to be told there was a lot more to that story than simply the one verse that I used to direct her there.

I would have expected this kind of silly "hedging" from some others here, but not you.

The thing is Willie this thread sounds like it's o.k. to lie sometimes if the reason is good enough after all God is a forgiving God and He knows why we lied. It isn't silly to read all of the Bible and no reason to not take it in context of what was written. You were at least to me trying to make it sound like that Jesus lied but then showed up to the feast. I really don't understand what you are trying to get across.

Maybe I'm a dense blond but I really don't get it... You lie in court and get caught you are going to jail... When is it o.k. to lie to authorities? When? Many Christians have died telling the truth... We shouldn't tell the truth? Just to save our lives? or the lives of others?

Satan is the father of lies you really want to rationalize on the side of this?

Alright, let's stop playing games.

If you say you are going to do one thing, and do another, full-well knowing you never intended to do the first thing..... what is your definition of that?

Idiocy.....

Alright, let's stop playing games.

If you say you are going to do one thing, and do another, full-well knowing you never intended to do the first thing..... what is your definition of that?

delighting in wickedness.

Really? And you gave it a "like", Demi, so are you in agreement with that motive?

John 7:
Not sure why you posted this verse....Jesus didn't lie he said he wasn't going to the feast because his time had not yet come meaning time for him to be crucified... Next verse said he stayed in Galilee... Wasn't the feast held in Jerusalem?

Alright, let's stop playing games.

If you say you are going to do one thing, and do another, full-well knowing you never intended to do the first thing..... what is your definition of that?

Are you trying to say Jesus lied?

Bible tells us he never sinned so He did not tell a lie. We weren't there when he said it at the time maybe he didn't intend to go then later changed his mind. He didn't go with them as a group that's for sure. Secretly showed up later sounds like no one could find him though so he wasn't out in the middle of things.