Judging

Not for nothing............but the statement "hey, you're doing this, and it concerns me......." is just as bad in my opinion. It is NOT about US.............It is about Him.......

This is truly a sad comment: "The self-righteous arrogant face of Christianity is pretty ugly and is out in full view of the public."

.............seriously?..............

Okay cool. Tell me then, how many people have Westboro's cult lead to Jesus with their attitudes? It's not that I'm saying we need to ignore that, but some people like them take it way too far. That's kind of what I'm talking about.

First thing that needs to happen is the Christian Church in America needs to stand up and "denounce" those guys for what they are..............for they are surely NOT a Christian congregation...........I don't care what they call themselves.

If anyone considers those guys as the "face of Christianity," then they have no idea what Christianity is about.

............just saying.......God bless........

We cannot change others...only God can...we cannot change ourselves either, but we can cooperate with the Holy Spirit and allow Him to do the work. Allow God to deal with you first. And then you will be able to humbly,lovingly,and effectively help others..... Peace to all Gods people....whatever their sin might be....

The unregenerate, whether in the church or in the world, seem to know one Scripture verse well: “Judge not that ye be not judged.”

What most people, whether saved and lost, do not know is that Christians are commanded to judge.

Many verses in the Bible tell Christians how to judge. This book will help believers to “judge righteous judgment” (Jn. 7:24) without being judgmental or coming under condemnation for obeying God in this essential matter of judging in the church.

God Expects Us to Judge
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa. 37:30) A righteous person will talk of judgment. He will not REFUSE to judge. He will talk judgment. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph." (Amos 5:14-15) How can you hate the evil and love the good if you refuse to judge? You can't. You are SINNING when you refuse to judge. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Our generation is well described in Isaiah 59:8: "The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace." People have refused to judge, so there is no peace. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Paul said in I Corinthians 1:10 to ". . . be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." Why would Paul make such a statement if judging is wrong? In I Corinthians 2:15 Paul says, "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." Judging is not a sin; judging is a characteristic of being a spiritual person! Satan has been lying to us, hoping that we will NOT judge, because he knows that the right kind of judgment PLEASES God and betters our lives and Christian service. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Someone says, "But should we judge PEOPLE?" Yes, we certainly should. Paul actually REBUKES the Corinthians for NOT judging: "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?" (I Cor. 6:1-5) If judging is wrong, then Paul needs to confess and repent for misleading these Christians! He clearly told them to JUDGE PEOPLE. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] If judging people is wrong, how can we obey Romans 16:17-18? II Corinthians 6:17? II Timothy 3:5-6? I John 4:1? Friend, if judging is wrong, then God has contradicted Himself and His words cannot be trusted! [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Notice Malachi 3:18: "Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not." WOW! Does that sound like it is wrong to judge? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] What about Revelation 2:2? " I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:" Why would the Lord be pleased with these Christians if judging was wrong? Is it not impossible to find someone a "liar" without judging them? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] If the Bible is clear about anything, it is clear about the importance of judging on a regular basis in order to properly serve and honor God. To ignore this fact is to ignore all of the Scripture just presented and also the rest of the Bible. God expects us to judge. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] God's Rules for Judging [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Now I do not wish to imply that we should spend all of our time judging. Sometimes people judge when they have no business doing so. In John 7:24 Jesus tells us to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment. This can only be done by following the rules that God has established in His word. Here follow seven good rules from Scripture: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Judge Scripturally [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Isaiah 8:20 says, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Our standard is God's word, not our feelings, our traditions, or our opinions. Right and wrong should always be determined by God's word. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Don't Judge When God's Word Is Silent [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] If God's word is silent about a subject, then you may not have to judge at all. Don't rush to judgment on an issue when the Bible says very little or is silent about it. Don't make more of a matter than God makes of it. A good example of this is found in Colossians 2:16: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" That is, these are not subjects of great importance today, so let's not make these great issues of judgment. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pray for Good Judgement Ability [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] When Solomon received his kingdom he asked God to "Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?" (I Kings 3:9) James 1:5 says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." We should pray for good judgment ability. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Don't Respect Persons [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Proverbs 24:23 says, "These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment." Treat all parties fairly without favoring anyone, such as family members or friends. A truly fair judge is blind and deaf to any outer influence. (Isa. 42:1, 19-21) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Judge in Truth [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Do not judge another when you do not have all the relevant facts. Jeremiah 5:1 says, "Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it." A true judge is one who seeks the truth. If you must judge, be sure and get all the facts. A Japanese proverb says to "search seven times before you judge."[/FONT]

Actually you do judge, everyone makes a lot of judgements every day. You have judged Christians to be judgmental people, you have judged yourself as someone who doesn't judge, and you have judged your friend to be a good person. But to rephrase your question: why do Christians seem to be so quick to jump to conclusions about people based on one or two facts or behaviors? I think part of it is that Christians have a much more absolute and unchanging standard of right and wrong, part of it is it is just plain easier to write the messy stuff out of our nice little worlds than to get involved and do the hard work of walking with someone through their struggles, and part of it is that modern society teaches us to divide people into camps and develop an us and them mentality. Many Christians also have a mentality of needing to stay clean and be good christians instead of risking to rescue those who are lost and messed up.

I admire you compassion here and wish more church people had it. I often wonder how many struggling people have ended up in the gay rights movement because someone there was willing to listen to their struggle and be there for them. I don't want to get into the whole gay debate here, so here are the basic points I think need to be said:

• In both Old and New Testaments the Bible calls sexual relations with a member of the same sex sin
• There are aggressive activists who through their ideology are enemies of the things of God
• There are many people who struggle with questions of identity, sexuality, and temptation. The fact that they struggle does not automatically make them opponents of Christianity or God
• If people do not feel safe in to share their struggles with Christians, the will share them with non-Christians and receive solutions and advice that (most likely) do not come from God.

Your friend sounds like a very nice and caring person, but while Christians should be nice, caring people, that is not what makes a person a Christian or on their way to heaven. Being made completely new because of Christ's sacrifice and being indwelt by the Holy Spirit makes a person Christian. Without that a person is on track to spend eternity in hell. That should not, however, be interpreted as either Christians want all those people to go to hell or it is too late for you, you are so evil that you have no hope of avoiding hell.

Few people manage to be who they really want to be or to be truly content with their lives. Many fake it well or resign themselves to some level of this is the best I'll ever do, but I would question anyone's ability to know if another person is truly happy and who they want to be. Our happiness is not God's priority, in fact Jesus stated "In the world you will have trouble" (John 16:33). Love, joy, peace, kindness etc. are all the fruit of God's spirit, not the result of what is happening in our lives (although that can definitely affect our levels of them).

I'll agree that some Christians can be too aggressive in sharing their faith and need to learn to take no for an answer. I will not agree that that means we should not share our faith. How can they believe if they never hear?

I think I read elsewhere in the thread that you are a fairly new believer. Your questions are the questions I think a lot of people ask, and you seem to have God's compassion in you. May he bless you and give you wisdom as you seek to know him better.