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J
Interesting read.
The only thing I would point out that I didn't see (and perhaps I simply didn't read every post in-depth and missed it) is that there are parts of scripture that Jesus and others clearly stated were parables and other parts that are historical. Not sure that qualifies as picking and choosing. I think one can be discerned from the other when taken contextually in entirety. Perhaps the picking and choosing comes in when the Word is parceled out.
I don't consider myself to be a liberal anything, but neither do I consider myself to be a closed minded anything.
The only thing I would point out that I didn't see (and perhaps I simply didn't read every post in-depth and missed it) is that there are parts of scripture that Jesus and others clearly stated were parables and other parts that are historical. Not sure that qualifies as picking and choosing. I think one can be discerned from the other when taken contextually in entirety. Perhaps the picking and choosing comes in when the Word is parceled out.
I don't consider myself to be a liberal anything, but neither do I consider myself to be a closed minded anything.
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J
I said nothing about Catholic rules nor Christian. I said biblical, not religious. If you believe scripture then everything in your life should be based on scripture, even in the face of those who don't believe scripture. By the way, death came into the world by sin. Sin is evil, all of it is.
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T
Okay, I thought you meant religious, because a lot of people say "Biblical morals" when they really don't mean that.
But if you really mean BIBLICAL morals, that's even worse!
Here are a few Biblical morals:
Marital fidelity? Nah. If your wife is barren, you can have sex with her sister or her maid-servant to ensure that you have kids.
One man one woman? Nah. You can have as many wives as you want, as long as you don't steal them away from another man.
Pro-life? Nah. When you conquer another country in war, make sure you kill every man, woman, and child therein (even infants), leaving none of them alive.
Sorry, but anyone who believes those things are moral has a deficiency.
Are you sure you didn't mean Christian morals?
I never said otherwise.
And this is why I vote democrat almost every time. Because ALL sin is evil.
But if you really mean BIBLICAL morals, that's even worse!
Here are a few Biblical morals:
Marital fidelity? Nah. If your wife is barren, you can have sex with her sister or her maid-servant to ensure that you have kids.
One man one woman? Nah. You can have as many wives as you want, as long as you don't steal them away from another man.
Pro-life? Nah. When you conquer another country in war, make sure you kill every man, woman, and child therein (even infants), leaving none of them alive.
Sorry, but anyone who believes those things are moral has a deficiency.
Are you sure you didn't mean Christian morals?
I never said otherwise.
And this is why I vote democrat almost every time. Because ALL sin is evil.
J
Proverbs 8:13-21
"The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures."
"The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures."
I
I think a clear definition of secular government is needed here:
Secular is the state of being separate from religion. A secular government does not favor a particular religion. Secular governments follow secularism. This is the belief that religion has no basis in politics. Secular government believes in the separation of church and state. Check out this link for more information on secular government:
Coalition for Secular Government:.
Thank-you GringDiva for picking up the torch - sometimes I just get weary of circular arguments.
To realize that The United States of America was founded largely by people who were fleeing religious persecution, is critical to any understanding of why our government was set up this way. One of the founding principles was that anyone was free to practice any religion they chose so long as the did not endanger other people or property or interfere with the religious practices of others. An understanding of some of the prime objections and exceptions can be found in the legislation regarding some of the practices of the early Mormon church, the laws against inter-racial marriage during the era of segregation, the legislation surrounding some of the practices of other emigre religions etc..
Secular is the state of being separate from religion. A secular government does not favor a particular religion. Secular governments follow secularism. This is the belief that religion has no basis in politics. Secular government believes in the separation of church and state. Check out this link for more information on secular government:
Coalition for Secular Government:.
Thank-you GringDiva for picking up the torch - sometimes I just get weary of circular arguments.
To realize that The United States of America was founded largely by people who were fleeing religious persecution, is critical to any understanding of why our government was set up this way. One of the founding principles was that anyone was free to practice any religion they chose so long as the did not endanger other people or property or interfere with the religious practices of others. An understanding of some of the prime objections and exceptions can be found in the legislation regarding some of the practices of the early Mormon church, the laws against inter-racial marriage during the era of segregation, the legislation surrounding some of the practices of other emigre religions etc..
I
The Coalition for secular government is, I think the argument we can ALL agree is a radical form of secularism. Taken to some conclusions that are neither logical nor reasonable.
A clearer understanding comes from the following
In political terms, secularism is a movement towards the separation of religion and government (often termed the separation of church and state). This can refer to reducing ties between a government and a state religion, replacing laws based on scripture (such as the Torah and Sharia law) with civil laws, and eliminating discrimination on the basis of religion. This is said to add to democracy by protecting the rights of religious minorities.
Secularism is often associated with the Age of Enlightenment in Europe and plays a major role in Western society. The principles, but not necessarily practices, of separation of church and state in the United States and Laïcité in France draw heavily on secularism. Secular states also existed in the Islamic world during the Middle Ages (see Islam and secularism).
Due in part to the belief in the separation of church and state, secularists tend to prefer that politicians make decisions for secular rather than religious reasons. In this respect, policy decisions pertaining to topics like abortion, contraception, embryonic stem cell research, same-sex marriage, and sex education are prominently focused upon by American secularist organizations such as the Center for Inquiry.
Most major religions accept the primacy of the rules of secular, democratic society but may still seek to influence political decisions or achieve specific privileges or influence through church-state agreements such as a concordat. Many Christians support a secular state, and may acknowledge that the conception has support in Biblical teachings, particularly Jesus' statement, "Then give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." (See article). However, some Christian fundamentalists (notably in the United States) oppose secularism, often claiming that there is a "radical secularist" ideology being adopted in current days and see secularism as a threat to "Christian rights" and national security. The most significant forces of religious fundamentalism in the contemporary world are Fundamentalist Christianity and Fundamentalist Islam. At the same time, one significant stream of secularism has come from religious minorities who see governmental and political secularism as integral to preserving equal rights.
Some of the well known states that are often considered "constitutionally secular" are USA, France, India, Mexico South Korea, and Turkey although none of these nations have identical forms of governance.
A clearer understanding comes from the following
In political terms, secularism is a movement towards the separation of religion and government (often termed the separation of church and state). This can refer to reducing ties between a government and a state religion, replacing laws based on scripture (such as the Torah and Sharia law) with civil laws, and eliminating discrimination on the basis of religion. This is said to add to democracy by protecting the rights of religious minorities.
Secularism is often associated with the Age of Enlightenment in Europe and plays a major role in Western society. The principles, but not necessarily practices, of separation of church and state in the United States and Laïcité in France draw heavily on secularism. Secular states also existed in the Islamic world during the Middle Ages (see Islam and secularism).
Due in part to the belief in the separation of church and state, secularists tend to prefer that politicians make decisions for secular rather than religious reasons. In this respect, policy decisions pertaining to topics like abortion, contraception, embryonic stem cell research, same-sex marriage, and sex education are prominently focused upon by American secularist organizations such as the Center for Inquiry.
Most major religions accept the primacy of the rules of secular, democratic society but may still seek to influence political decisions or achieve specific privileges or influence through church-state agreements such as a concordat. Many Christians support a secular state, and may acknowledge that the conception has support in Biblical teachings, particularly Jesus' statement, "Then give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." (See article). However, some Christian fundamentalists (notably in the United States) oppose secularism, often claiming that there is a "radical secularist" ideology being adopted in current days and see secularism as a threat to "Christian rights" and national security. The most significant forces of religious fundamentalism in the contemporary world are Fundamentalist Christianity and Fundamentalist Islam. At the same time, one significant stream of secularism has come from religious minorities who see governmental and political secularism as integral to preserving equal rights.
Some of the well known states that are often considered "constitutionally secular" are USA, France, India, Mexico South Korea, and Turkey although none of these nations have identical forms of governance.
H
I know what you mean. I'm not your typical Christian either, I have friends that believe in all sorts of things and I accept them all. I'm definately a democrat and I voted for Obama, I read out of a bible in the layout of a magazine and go to a church that has its own rock band. My best friend is homosexual and I'd stand by her to the end. There are plenty of us out there (that friend of mine is one, too) happily staying up all night watching horror flicks and attending the evening church services. I don't think there's a single thing wrong with it - and we're most definately still Christian.
H
Whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in Him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:5
We can either serve God, or the world. Not both. 'Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him'. 1 John 2:15.
Romans 12:2 tells us clearly that we are not to conform to the world but be transformed through Christ so we can test and see what Gods will is. What is pleasing and good to Him. Pro abortion and all the other contentious and divisive issues mentioned on this thread are all because they are what we want. The thing I note here that rings an alarm bell is not so much you have a best friend who is a homosexual... its the fact you think its a good idea to stay up all night watching horror films...
I am quite sure you see nothing wrong with it. But its not a terribly productive use of your time is it? and horror films? really? you believe that is in Gods will?
There is nothing to be said to that
apart from you must be reading a different Bible to me!! <><
We can either serve God, or the world. Not both. 'Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him'. 1 John 2:15.
Romans 12:2 tells us clearly that we are not to conform to the world but be transformed through Christ so we can test and see what Gods will is. What is pleasing and good to Him. Pro abortion and all the other contentious and divisive issues mentioned on this thread are all because they are what we want. The thing I note here that rings an alarm bell is not so much you have a best friend who is a homosexual... its the fact you think its a good idea to stay up all night watching horror films...
I am quite sure you see nothing wrong with it. But its not a terribly productive use of your time is it? and horror films? really? you believe that is in Gods will?
There is nothing to be said to that
apart from you must be reading a different Bible to me!! <><
P
Though I have to say I think horror films have little place in life of a Christian. I don't mean that as a condemnation I just feel wary of stuff like that. I used to be into horror and dint thinkk it affected me but I felt the Lord wanted me to get rid of my horror books and films so I did and the atmosphere in my room got lighter.
E
I'm a Christian, currently studying physics and chemistry at university and I would disagree that any scientific theories disprove God. I believe everything in science from evolution down to quantum mechanics, yet I believe that this has strengthened my belief rather than weakened it. Learning about the absolute absurdity and brilliance of the world God created in great detail has helped me get over problems with my faith. For inatance faith in a God doesn't seem as ridiculous when you learn things can be in two places at once, there is no such thing as past present or future, and that something acts as either a wave or particle depending on what Is happening to it. Both Christians and scientists agree that the world is a weird and wonderful and I believe they both support each other (also yes I'm a liberal Christian)
I'm a Christian Anarchist. Talk about being the only one of your kind lol.
You'll probably find a liberal Christian here and there on CC. Not too many.
There's just a few Christian liberals period. Liberal parties have gone too far left into Marixism/Socialism/Communism (they weren't that radical before) and the conservative parties have always tricked Christians into thinking that they had the same values for their votes.
Welcome to Murica
You'll probably find a liberal Christian here and there on CC. Not too many.
There's just a few Christian liberals period. Liberal parties have gone too far left into Marixism/Socialism/Communism (they weren't that radical before) and the conservative parties have always tricked Christians into thinking that they had the same values for their votes.
Welcome to Murica
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S
It does certainly seem like there are a lot more conservative Christians here than liberal ones... I tend not to box myself in with stuff like that because I agree with some of each side... Politically I'd be waaaay left (I'd like communism if it ever worked the way it's intended to) but morally I'm probably like 20% away from the middle on the liberal side.
T
There is no such thing as a Liberal Christian except you speak of those Jesus will tell to get away from Him for He never knew them. And that will be the 98% of the Church on Sunday morning with their names on the roll, the church roll, not found in the Book Of Life! For the other, less than 2% of the people in the Church that walk with God and are not puffed up, they cannot ever be liberal because they have given their very lives over to God to use as he will and God is not liberal.
Its a tricky thing sometimes to see all the ideas expressed that are against the Word of God.
Its really tricky when people try to interweave these philosophical ideas with theology.
I secretly wish that there were no govt. and we had the freedom to each be sovereign. Like an organized anarchy.
I secretly wish that govt. wouldn't take advantage of its people and everyone would work really hard to make socialism or communism work.
But those wishes aren't real. What is real is that God is sovereign. What is real is that people are mostly selfish and violent and oppose God.
Its really tricky when people try to interweave these philosophical ideas with theology.
I secretly wish that there were no govt. and we had the freedom to each be sovereign. Like an organized anarchy.
I secretly wish that govt. wouldn't take advantage of its people and everyone would work really hard to make socialism or communism work.
But those wishes aren't real. What is real is that God is sovereign. What is real is that people are mostly selfish and violent and oppose God.
Go into any ghetto and you will find plenty of liberal Christians. Hispanics are mostly Catholic and Blacks are mostly Protestant. As one who lives in the ghetto I can tell you from first hand knowledge that this is so. Conservatives are few and far between around here. After all, these good people here all love Jesus cause he is the original Jewish liberal peacenik:
