The Death Penalty

I see no reason for the death penalty. If you take a man who has committed murder, and sentence him to life in prison - he's no longer a threat to anyone, and should simply be left alone. Once of the girls that were part of the Manson Murders seems to have embraced Christianity. Would I let her out? No, she's serving time for what she did here on earth, but God can decide if she's sincere, and welcome her into heaven. Jesus was being crucified, and pleaded that they receive forgiveness for their sins. The first real sermon was in the book of Acts, where some of the people that helped crucify Jesus were forgiven. The Apostle Paul arranged to have many Christians murdered before he was converted. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

Rom 13:1-4 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the
powers that be are ordained of God. (2) Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth
the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. (3) For
rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do
that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: (4) For he is the minister of God to thee
for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is
the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

i am forthe death penalty, and the bible even instructs every goverment to put a murder to death. besides if a person murders someone else they should die. some people think that death penalty is cruel but the way it's done and been done is not cruel

The voters upheld the death penalty.

You obviously didn't read everyone's posts in this thread before making your own post or you would see us asserting that they are a threat to others after receiving a life sentence.

This will be news to you so pay attention. The "lifers" run their races respective prison gangs in our federal, state, and local prison/jail systems. These murderers issue "hits" all the time on both inmates and citizens in society.

It's called being "in the hat" in jailhouse lingo. "Soft candy" are people added to the hit list to be murdered if the opportunity arises while "hard candy" hits are to be aggressively pursued.

Our entire system of reform in the U.S. is held in the grip of the prison gangs which control the street gangs which control the criminal associates and wannabe elements in society.

If you go to prison and you don't fall in line with the rule of your "car" (e.g. the prison gang that controls the race at the institution you are incarcerated), you will be victimized repeatedly or murdered if you don't "roll up" into protective custody (e.g. PC) to serve out the remainder of your sentence in a small cell where you get only one hour a day out of it.

We have lost control of the reform part of our penal institutions to murdering "cant' stop won't stop" "blood in blood out" (you murder to get in and you die to get out) prison gangs because people like you gave these unrepentant murderers life sentences instead of the death penalty.

Some murderers do repent and become Christians but most never do and that's why we have real reform almost shut down in our penal institutions today.

The Apostle Paul arranged to have several Christians murdered before his conversion, and went on to become one of the most prominent Evangelicals mentioned in the bible. It's never to late to find Christ and become a true follower of his word.
I don't doubt that prison violence is a serious issue, and there would probably be no way of knowing how many of the people that die in prison were murdered, but I do know there have been over 200 people exonerated through DNA evidence. I do know that people have in them, the capacity to change - even though most people will not.

That's great that a few murderers find their way to Christ but your vote against the death penalty is resulting in many more murders occurring each year while preventing the hold these lifer murderers have on our penal institutions and society to be broken so real reform can take place amongst the majority prison population that are not murderers.

You (and other enablers like you) are indirectly responsible for the many murders these lifer murderers both commit and command their gangs to commit. Without enablers like yourself, the present situation wouldn't be possible.

Now how about a vote to actually enforce it?

I understand where your coming from, perhaps blaming me for hits taken out on families is a little harsh, but I totally get it. I do think if you execute a crime boss that someone else will take their place, and carry out the "hits' if that's their way of doing business. I know it's easy to support the death penalty, the guy that killed those people in Arizona just got sentenced the other day, and I could see putting him in the chair. It's all seems simple, I just don't feel it's our call to decide who lives or dies, but I understand where you're coming from.

The difference David is that the new "crop" of leaders would know that if they either committed a murder or ordered a murder, that their reign would be short-lived. The situation that exists today, where murder is routine and the more murders you do the higher you rise in the criminal world (they actually call each murder a "stripe" and criminal leaders compete with each other to "earn stripes" because it results in greater "respect", rank, and power).

I understand the situation and I'm asserting that they would stop committing and ordering these murders to "earn stripes" for greater power, as a matter of routine, if they emphatically knew they had a one way ticket to the execution table in a timely manner whenever they were caught.

Everything would change if that became the new normal. A "red light" would go out on routine murder on behalf of one's gang and criminal organization because nobody wants to get executed. Things would calm down and reform would have space to work again (because people would know if they chose reform and even if the prison gang members themselves dropped out of these gangs to change their lives the chance of them being hit" would be remote instead of common like it is now).

In countries like Mexico where there's no death penalty, you have criminal gangs stopping in the middle of traffic and pushing 49 bodies out of a van onto the freeway and then driving off to party like it was nothing. You have them stringing up bodies off freeway overpasses and mounting heads on poles. There's no death penalty. There's no ultimate accountability for murder in these countries. The crime leaders in these places are responsible for the murders of hundreds of people living like despotic rulers for twenty years or so and then when they are caught live in comfort safe in a negotiated part of the prison all paid for with bribes for the remainder of their lives.

In some places it gets THIS bad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_L%C3%B3pez_(serial_killer) This guy murdered 300 kids, did his time, was released and may have made his way into the U.S. as an illegal alien using a false identity.

There's a place for the death penalty in any real system of justice.

I never said if someone murders to simply let them out. I think all murderers should serve full life sentences. I can't believe the guy that shot John Lennon is up for parole all the time, prison is not just a rehabilitation clinic, but a method of punishment. I know you've put a lot of thought into your argument, and no one is going to change your mind, but they've never found a link between capital punishment and a reduction in violent crime rates. Heck, the United States is one of the few industrialized nations to offer it and we're among the highest in the world.

TAZorek wants to ignore all of the New Testament I guess. There was no mercy in the OT law. Here in America we have a very complicated and frequently unfair system of justice and there have been more than 500 truly innocent people put on death row that we know about so far.

I don't recall Jesus or the Apostles trying to abolish the death penalty in their time.These people on death row have years to contemplate asking for forgiveness. They have prison ministries trying to convert them. they have a bible in their room. It is not about being a Christian, because there is nothing to deny the death penalty. We cannot take the law into our own hands. Since this is a Christian website I will not share with you some of the things these people have done.What if there was a natural disaster & the prisons crumbled? Then when these evil folks are murdering & hurting others you would believe in the death penalty. One example of the mindset of some of these people: One man who was convicted of multiple rape said, " that B---- had nerve enough to be on her period when I raped her". I could inject some of them with a needle while eating an apple at the same time.

The death penalty (for murder) was abolished in the UK in 1965 and in N Ireland in 1973, there have been times when certain MP's (in the House of Commons) have tried to have it re-introduced, but each time it has been heavily defeated.

I must admit I am glad it has not been re-introduced because what I have a problem with is when there would be a miscarriage of justice and an innocent person is executed for a crime they didn't commit, at least if they have been given 'life' (in jail) they can be released if the mis-carriage comes to light, however, if they have been executed then that's it!

So, no, I don't support the death penalty...

Didn't they once haul an adulterous woman out of town for execution, which was according to the law at the time, and someone said he'd like to see a truly innocent man throw the first stone?