The Gun Thread

[cdan2]

An "atheist and a homosexual" writing poems- what better thing to base your salvation on? Look, I cannot judge your experience with the divine. However it sounds questionable enough that I can advise you to look closely and determine for yourself based on the whole word of God; the 66 book Bible. It's your own soul that hangs in the balance.

As for heaven opening and your experiencing God, I can tell you the enemy of your soul imitates God quite convincingly. Make sure you are following Him and not some demon.

Your nice Muslim neighbors sadly probably are more devout than the average Christian. Their god (yes, small "g") demands perfect obedience. But Allah is a demon that sank one of the most knowledgable and advanced civilizations of its time into a sub-medieval mess. It (the demon) also requires your head eventually, as demons love blood and covet the sacrifices due to God (though in a perverse form).

As for those apostate Christians, you may have guessed by now that I do not follow the standard dogma handed down by the church fathers. I read and think for myself, and I worship with believers who do the same. I do keep Torah (though not "perfectly"), and honestly it isn't that difficult. I gave up pork (not that difficult), rabbit and squirrel and other critters was a bit harder; but Lord, catfish too!? I'm a Southern boy after all ... but I gave that up as well. Point is not every Christian is the same. I've known those in different denominations whose walk with God puts me to shame, though they are not even as Torah observant as I am. But actually, if they really follow Jesus they are following a Torah observant 1st cen rabbi; a teacher. Problem is too many are like their spiritual/church fathers and they pick and choose what to obey, even in the life of Jesus. Don't lump all Christians in that group though. And don't think just because you know some nice Muslims there are not those that wish to do you harm. You are their ticket to Paradise, as the only way they can be sure of getting there is to do something like cut off your head or blow themselves up while standing next to you, for it is said:

Sura 3:157: "And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass."

Hope you never meet that kind of Muslim; but if you do, it might be nice to have a gun.

 

[2ndRateMind]

None of my neighbours, Muslim nor otherwise, have guns, or, from what I can make out, want them. And thus we all live, free of fear.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

An "atheist and a homosexual" writing poems - what better thing to base your salvation on?

I can only say that it worked for me.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[shittim]

We have all seen those who will not see.
We can never please the Giver of Life when He takes back the life He has given us and asks for an account.

 

[Desdichado]

I'm pleased as punch that this thread is still kick'n five years later. Thanks to lovers and haters alike for doing their part!

 

[shittim]

And , Lord willing, I will be the proud owner of a 9mm revolver soon.

 

[JohnDB]

I haven't read the 2,000+ replies from over the 5 years this thread has been going.

Don't need to.

But likely those from Europe can't understand the American fascination with firearms. And for whatever reason American Christians are especially fascinated with guns.

They are a tool. Like drills, shovels, and kitchen knives. All can be used for good purposes or bad purposes.

 

[shittim]

"Fascinated" doesn't seem like the right description, automobiles are another area Americans are enthused with, freedom is another.

 

[InNeedOfSupport]

I got a firearms license a while back but I have no gun ranges around + I'm currently out of a job.

Would love to own WW2 bolt actions, lever actions, pump shotties and revolvers some day for target plinking purposes

 

[shittim]

When we participate in the shooting sports we get to be around good citizens.
I hope things iron out to where you can get into it.

 

[jennymae]

I live in Europe (for many years now) and purchasing guns ain’t no problem here either. They’re a little stricter on background checks, but if you need a gun you’ll just buy one - legally.

 

[cdan2]

I live in Europe (for many years now) and purchasing guns ain’t no problem here either. They’re a little stricter on background checks, but if you need a gun you’ll just buy one - legally.

Yes, but you still have to get permission to own a firearm. And many places have laws concerning storage of the firearm and even access to it. We have much the same in many places even in the US. However in most places here it is much easier to own a gun, and in many states (like mine) open carry is legal without a permit. I shoot black powder, so there are not even background checks for me to buy a gun.

 

[jennymae]

Yes, but you still have to get permission to own a firearm. And many places have laws concerning storage of the firearm and even access to it. We have much the same in many places even in the US. However in most places here it is much easier to own a gun, and in many states (like mine) open carry is legal without a permit. I shoot black powder, so there are not even background checks for me to buy a gun.

Yeah, but getting permission is very easy. Storage is regulated by law, but not enforced and whenever it is enforced on extremely rare occasions you’re given a heads up in advance. I don’t think it’s restrictions on black powder guns here either.

Bottom line is that even there is some pretty rough legislation on guns, the laws are rarely enforced.

 

[2ndRateMind]

I haven't read the 2,000+ replies from over the 5 years this thread has been going.

Don't need to.

But likely those from Europe can't understand the American fascination with firearms. And for whatever reason American Christians are especially fascinated with guns.

They are a tool. Like drills, shovels, and kitchen knives. All can be used for good purposes or bad purposes.

I think we might have to tackle the idea that technology is morally neutral Seems to me to be that some technologies are anything but, and that a widespread distribution of guns designed for the purpose of killing people is ethically questionable.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[cdan2]

Yeah, but getting permission is very easy. Storage is regulated by law, but not enforced and whenever it is enforced on extremely rare occasions you’re given a heads up in advance. I don’t think it’s restrictions on black powder guns here either.

Bottom line is that even there is some pretty rough legislation on guns, the laws are rarely enforced.

Here (the US) enforcement usually becomes an issue incidental to some other interaction with law enforcement. Say your guns were stolen and you improperly stored them in a jurisdiction where there are such laws. At the other extreme, and God forbid you ever had to use a gun in self defense. If you weren't supposed to have that gun (say you live in NYC or Chicago) then you could be charged with all manner of crimes. You'd be alive, but facing prison and your family might loose everything in the ensuing civil lawsuits.

 

[cdan2]

I think we might have to tackle the idea that technology is morally neutral Seems to me to be that some technologies are anything but, and that a widespread distribution of guns designed for the purpose of killing people is ethically questionable.

Sure. First off is your premise guns are only designed to kill people is flawed. It does not take into consideration the reasons one may have for killing another- self defense, defense of others, insurance against government overreach, for example. Moreover the mere presence of a firearm may save lives without harm to anyone. I know this firsthand as I was the man with the gun- right time, wrong place, good outcome. And of course there are military and police uses.

Also most guns are designed primarily for other purposes than killing people: plinking, sport shooting, competition, hunting game of various sizes and types. Many shoot for the technical aspects like reloading and smithing. Shooting is enjoyable no matter how one does it or for what reason.

Then there is art. I look at a finely crafted firearm like many look at the Mona Lisa; except my art form has mechanical function, physical refinement, clean purposeful lines, interaction with the shooter- a depth of artistic achievement a painting can never come close to! Then when you add in the aspect of proper shooting form, whether target shooting or for defensive or offensive purposes; shooting itself is a form of "martial art." When Mona reaches out an whacks someone, I'll be impressed. 'Till then, I'll stay with guns.

 

[Oblio]

In Canada, one must defend themselves against illegally-armed aggressors with hockey sticks! But you'd better not hurt them!

 

[JohnDB]

I think we might have to tackle the idea that technology is morally neutral Seems to me to be that some technologies are anything but, and that a widespread distribution of guns designed for the purpose of killing people is ethically questionable.

Best wishes, 2RM.

There are many that aren't designed for that purpose...
Many are designed for the many various purposes that powder actuated tools are used for other than harming people. Sure a powder actuated tools can fire a projectile at people...but they can drive nails, fireworks, various things like beanbags, salt, powders, liquids, lubricants, and abrasives.

And that's just powder actuated...then there's gas actuated and liquid actuated and magnetic rails.

Many ways to actuate tools...all with various purposes with specialized needs. And there's so much crossover that it's impossible to quantify.

And what constitutes a gun?
60% completion?
80% completion?

Those who make steel tubes and pipes are now at risk... especially pipe fitters.

Ink for printing presses needs to be pumped at 500 psi...the piping for them can now be classified as a weapon to kill people even though your Sunday school quarterly is printed on just such a printer.

Fleas come with the dog.

 

[shittim]

the adversaries side always omits recreational and educational use of anything and goes to the worse possible use, projecting out perhaps?

 

[JStates]

Seems to me Americans all need guns, because Americans all have guns. I suggest you would have a kinder, more compassionate society if you got rid of them all, as we have largely done here in the UK.

Best wishes, 2RM.

You guys have a lot of mass stabbings over there now.

Tell me when you solve human nature.