To Catholics

I started one thread a few days ago about the transforming the bread and wine into the body and blood during the Mass. I just wanted your opinion on this: Should I or should I not post threads regarding these Catholic topics? They can tend to spiral into arguements and people are left annoyed and frustrated. I don't want to sow discord, but I DO want Non-Catholics to understand what we believe. Most non-Catholics on here are too set in their ways and many can be plain disrespectful, so maybe its pointless... Healthy debate is what I want, between loving Christians, but this, I find, is rare.

Thoughts on this before I post any more threads please!!

Post away!!! I enjoyed reading that post you mentioned.

Hi Roddog - I too enjoyed your post & some of the contributions which ensued.
As with any post I enjoy reading, I may sometimes contribute; sometimes not -

However the moment the arguments begin is the moment I abandon any interest whatsoever in the discussion.
J.

(I don't think I qualify here, but I was bought up a catholic and two brothers are catholics, but... (if you'll allow...

I am like Jim (and I have been up 'til now) ...(you can go back and read that again if you like -- I am a writer and anything can happen)

I am like Jim, and I've been like him (these past four months) in abandoning certain discussions, but I wish you would stay:

Rodogg, consider what is means to yourself to walk away from what you consider the rest of Christianity and which you have felt part of.

Also (and this has been my thought recently) these ones who are acting without grace are falling short are they not?

Let's not abandon them in their failings, as the grace is still in us. : Better to restore them.

... Part of the failures of these discussions is opening up a number of lines of contention at the same time. Let's limit it.

If there is something we do agree with, let's say so, and can we be content at times to leave it at that?

If the language is offensive, let's say so; forgive, and state it a condition if we proceed.

Let us be slow to proceed and only return to the discussion in a state of grace. (What's the hurry, it's not going anywhere anyway.)

...

Let us think of the other man and what we can do to bring him into unity.

Best wishes to you.

I enjoy healthy, polite discussion, and I think we can do this without devolving into argument.

I'd love to do a "compare and contrast" to see what different people / churches believe about Eucharist. I know that the Roman Catholic Church (and, as far as I know, all Catholic rites) believe in Transubstantiation. That is, the earthly elements of bread and wine actually become Christ's body and blood.

The first step away from that would be what the Lutheran Church teaches: "consubstantiation." This is that Christ's body and blood is truly present "in, with, and under" the earthly elements of bread and wine. (For those of you who know some Latin, check out the prefixes there: "trans" vs. "con.")

Then there's the Anglican Church. They speak of "Real Presence," saying that Jesus Christ is truly present, but not wishing to take a stand on how this mystery occurs.

In the Methodist church, the bread and wine are "symbols" of Jesus' body and blood. For the Presbyterians, the meal is a memorial of Jesus' last supper.

Other ideas?

Hey go for it, I'm not a catholic!!! Bread and Wine- Body and Blood... "For My flesh is meat indeed: and My blood is drink indeed. He that eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, abideth in Me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth Me, the same also shall live by Me. The only thing that sets me off about Catholics so far is the asking of The Virgin Mary to intercede for you... I think there are others but I forget..

I'm catholic too and I say don't bother. The protestants have their own arguments against our beliefs, thats why they are called protestants (because their founders protested the catholic church's beliefs). There is a scripture which says let each person be convinced in their own mind and don't become a stumbling block for your brother or sister in their walk of faith, because what they do they do for the LORD and none of us has the right to judge someone else's servant. Each of us must stand on our own before our Master.

All that stuff is in Romans 14, by the way.

Here's a verse that I think applies here..

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. (Romans 14:1)

I'm not saying protestant faith is weak or catholic faith is weak...each group thinks the other is the weaker one! The important part of that message is to ACCEPT those whose faith YOU consider weak...because you are supposed to be christians, loving even your enemies. True christians do not quarrel over "disputable matters".

Protestants and catholics will probably always disagree with each other..but when will they finally ACCEPT EACH OTHER.

So anyway Rodogg, here is my stance as a christian and a catholic.. I consider protestants my brothers and sisters in Christ (and I'm sure u do too) EVEN THOUGH I know full well that many of them think I am an idolater and a heathen or that my church is the great whore city of Babylon (that one's my favorite! lol) and that my pope is the antichrist, etc... None of that stuff bothers me anymore (it used to) because I know in my mind, through my church's beliefs, and in my heart that none of its true, AND that trying to convince protestants that its not true is a lot like trying to convince atheists that God exists. I simply have accepted my protestant brethren in Christ as they are...denouncing my church and all. The bottom line is that they love Jesus as much as we do..and thats the one thing that truly matters. God bless.

Really well said, I completely agree. And of course! I absolutely accept and mainly, love, everyone! Protestant, hindu, atheist, whatever! I just wanted to stand up for and discuss our Catholic beliefs, but it is similar, as you said, to trying to convince an atheist otherwise. I think if the Holy Spirit inspires someone to really want to know about Catholicism, then is a good time to talk about it.
And the whore of Babylon thing is a favourite of mine too... lol

I posted this a few days ago: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/34450-body-blood.html
It wasn't massively constructive though... lol

Also GrungeDiva, what denomination are you if you don't mind? You're pretty clued up on us Catholics if you aren't one. One other thing: I think I was a bit rude to you in a thread quiteee a while back, but I just remembered it. I think I was in bad form at that time, but no excuse.

Thank you, Rodogg.

To answer your question, my faith is probably best described as main-stream protestant eclectic with strong catholic rite leanings. I was raised primarily Lutheran (though my father was Jewish, and we learned all the Jewish holidays, celebrated the Sabbath every Friday sundown, etc.) My current membership is with a Methodist church, I work in an Episcopal church, have worked in Presbyterian, Disciples of Christ, and Roman Catholic churches. I studied in a Lutheran seminary for many years, and continue to study Scripture and Church history (don't think I'll ever stop studying). I have great respect for and knowledge of many Christian denominations. Strictly speaking, I probably shouldn't take communion at a RCC, since I've never been to confession, but most priests who know me well would serve me anyway, saying that I certainly understand the fullness of Christ's presence better than most parishioners.

As for rudeness, we all have foibles. I know I have a tendency toward rudeness myself from time to time. I accept your apology and forgive you, and ask your forgiveness for my foibles as well, as I ask God's forgiveness for my continuous sins. Thank God for grace, huh?

Advent blessings to you!

All foibles forgiven then! Yeah nobody's perfect, thank God for grace INDEED. Where would we be without it...Very interesting what you said about you participation in the various churches. You're probably quite right about you being more aware of Christ's presence than many other so called Catholics, at least if where you live is anything like where I live Not judging others, but it's so sad to see people there out of routine and tradition simply wolfing down without a second thought, what I believe to be the very body of Jesus... :/

Don't worry Rodogg, they lose their share of folks to our denomination, just as we lose some of ours to theirs. I've read and heard the testimonies of some former protestants and some of them were the very anti-catholic, hate-mongering ones you think would never even give us a chance. God works in mysterious ways!

And by the way..the testimonies I have heard were accounts of how God sparked the change in their hearts and minds...NOT men.

It's very true. I know many Catholics who "converted" from Protestant and/or atheism and/or agnosticism. When it comes down to it, sometimes I think God is just to big to fit in one box. I had one professor explain it like this: a group of people are sitting around a table, looking at a vase of flowers. One person says, "Those are beautiful roses." Another says, "Well, yes, they're beautiful, but they're carnations, not roses." A third says, "You're both wrong. Clearly, they are tulips." Of course, each is describing what they see, and each is 100% correct, from his or her own perspective.