To those who speak against our Military and or Government

I don't like the lying, cheating, back-stabbing methods many politicians employ to reach their goal of being elected for whatever office they're after. It turns voting into choosing the lesser of two evils a lot of times.

I also dislike that God has been booted to the curb by government, and that people would like Him removed even further.

I dislike the complacency with which American citizens sit by while our elected officials bungle things they swore to fix.

I dislike the complacency with which American Christians sit by while our elected officials try to take God out of everything.

There are many things I dislike about the house I live in, but I'm not going to pack up and move out- I'm going to work on fixing it.

p.s. God bless the men and women of the United States military

I appreciated your post, and agree with almost everything in it.

WRT the above, it appears you think the government should embrace Christianity, and enforce its rules on others. Which version of Christianity do you think it should enforce? Perhaps Roman Catholicism, which is the oldest Christian religion, and make all citizens say "hail mary" every day at noon? Or perhaps you prefer Puritan Christianity, saying that all women must keep everything covered except for their faces and hands, so we can all get Burkas?

Seriously, which brand of Christianity do you want in charge?

Personally, I prefer the way we have it now, where I can choose to follow Christ how I see fit, or not.

I don't want a "brand" of Christianity in charge, honestly. I've thought about this more (in regards to another thread, I believe you were also on that one) and I agree now, having a RELIGION in charge, that's no good. But to have a government banning things like prayer in schools is no good, either.

The government does not ban prayer in school. Individual students are welcome to pray quietly, to themselves, whenever they want. Yes, there have been cases where students have been told not to pray. EVERY TIME this has happened, it was at least one of the following situations:
1. The student or students were disrupting other students and/or interrupting class time. In other words, a student may not stand up in the middle of class and start speaking in tongues while the teacher is trying to present a lesson.
2. A teacher or other school official coerced or pressured students into participating in prayer, and/or a student's right NOT to pray was infringed. In other words, if I find out that a teacher led my child's class in an Islamic Prayer Chant, I would probably be a little ticked off, and rightly so. Don't you see that parents of a student who is not Christian would feel equally upset about a teacher leading any Christian prayer? For that reason, prayer cannot be initiated by teachers or administrators, because that is a form of pressure.
3. The teacher(s) or administrator(s) involved in asking the students to stop praying were wrong, and were punished for infringing upon the rights of student's beliefs. There have been cases where, for example, a principal tells a student not to say grace before eating his lunch, or a teacher punishes a child for making the sign of the cross before a test. In every case, the student was in the right, and the teacher or administrator was wrong. Some of these cases, believe it or not, were brought against the schools by the ACLU, who would represent a Christian whose rights to pray quietly were being curtailed.

If you know of any case where a student in a public school was "banned" from praying, that doesn't fall into one of the above 3 categories, please share it. If any public school is getting away with infringing upon the rights of a student, I want to know about it.

The government neither bans religion nor supports it. The law is such that it protects those from other religions from having their individual rights (freedom of religion) from being infringed upon. In any case of alleged "government banning of religion," just ask yourself how you would feel if the situation were different. For example, if a city board is rejecting a motion to put a Christmas manger scene on public ground, ask yourself how you'd feel if it was some Pagan altar to Ishtar or something like that. Would you want your tax dollars to be used to support that sort of display? I wouldn't. So, too, a non-Christian should not have any of their tax dollars used to support a Christian display.

In fact, there have been many more instances where non-Christian groups were banned from having their own free speech and freedom of religion, such as the atheists who were told they could not pay for advertising on billboards, while churches are allowed billboard advertising if they pay for it. Is that fair?

I may disagree with what someone says, but I will defend to the death their right to say it.

Oh, there was another case where a student received a failing grade on a science project because it was anti-evolution. In the case, the student's paper did not address the assignment, so the student was graded down because they did not complete the assignment, not because they didn't accept evolution. It got all publicized, but I stand by the teacher's grade. If a child is going to reject evolution, they need to prove that they understand evolution as it is taught in the schools. If they don't, then they should not receive passing grades in science.

I have had to learn many things in my life that I didn't agree with. Sometimes, the more I learned about them, the more sure I became that they were wrong, but what happened is I became equipped with the ability to argue against them. If I hadn't bothered to learn them, simply rejecting them because they didn't mesh with my own beliefs, I would not have that opportunity.

I served in this countries military over 30 years ago would had taken a bullet with honor.From that time i have watched a ungreatful nation turn away from God and now in todays military gays are openly taking over.

It's easy to suggest to some one if you don't like it leave it, well I DON'T LIKE IT but guess what this is my country as well and i'll choose to stay and speak my mind at all times for God who at one time was the center of this country.

Yes freedom isn't free but if for one second you think our goverment is the reason we have it then think again,and if we don't soon bring in a commander in chief who knows and follows God our military will implode.

I appreciate what you shared, I honestly didn't know that- my fault, my own family talks about it like it was a government decision and I didn't think to question them on that point. Silly, because my family has taught me to question MOST things (apparently just not them).

I suspect, if your family has taught you to question most things, that they, too, have been misinformed.

There's a movement out there, within the Christian Evangelical wing (though certainly not limited to them, and not true of all Evangelicals) that is seeking to distort the truth. Their ultimate goals are to turn the US into a Christian nation ... one in which their particular brand of Christianity is enforced and enacted into law. They realize that in order to accomplish this, they will have to play fast-and-loose with the constitution (the very constitution that gives them all the rights and freedoms to worship as they do). They are quite adept at twisting stories, and telling only those portions that support their ultimate goal.

They are trying to make the world think that they are the minorities, oppressed by society at large. At the same time, they're pushing for their views to be enacted into law, because their views, they claim, are held by the majority. Why more people haven't recognized this double-speak before I don't know.

The result of their actions is that a great many of well-meaning Christians believe everything they say, and they are filled with fear. Fear of atheists, fear of Muslims, fear of anything different. They use the same tactics used by Germans in the 20s and 30s to get the citizens to fear Jews. This is another way we know that they are the deceivers, for our God is not a God of Fear, but a God of Love.

I am glad to hear that your family has taught you to Question Everything. It is a great place to start. Hold fast to your faith in God, but question everything else. Even what I am telling you. Maybe especially what I am telling you. Question it, and find out the truth by listening to both sides.

God bless you!

Do you have any evidence for this statement?

Exactly how are they "taking over." Are gays forcibly usurping positions of power in the military where they didn't have them before (under "don't ask don't tell")? Are they forcing non-gays into gay sex? Did hundreds of thousands of gays sign up for the military last Tuesday, as soon as the ban was lifted, making themselves a majority rather than a minority in military populations?

No, none of these things have happened. The only change is that now, the gays who have already been serving their country, who have risked their lives, or been injured, or even killed in the line of duty, don't have to hide. They can put a picture of their loved one on their desk or footlocker if they want, just as their straight comrades in arms have been able to do all along. They can share at the water cooler what they did on the weekend, and not have to edit what they say constantly, hoping that a "we" doesn't slip out that will make someone ask, "you and who else?"

Gays in the military can no longer be blackmailed by anyone who has "found out their secret," telling them that they'll expose it if they don't comply. (And yes, this happened quite regularly, and the victims had zero recourse, because of "don't ask don't tell.")

So, let's say a few dozen, or maybe even a few hundred, gays signed up for service to the nation last Tuesday. Is that a bad thing? I keep hearing that recruitment of young men and women into the military is critically low, wouldn't it be GOOD that something would get more people to join?

I do not agree with everything our commander in chief has done or said. He and I do not see eye to eye on many issues, and I have told this to him in person. There have been times when I have said I think he is ignoring God's clear directive on one issue or another.

But know this: he IS a devout believer. He prays every night for strength and guidance. And if you don't pray for him, you are part of the problem, an enemy to this nation and an enemy to God.

The day don't ask don't tell expired a navy officier and his whatever openly married while in uniform..unless you have served aboard a navy ship where many men are shoved into a very small sleeping quarters then you'll not know what it would be like to have to share such quarters with gays who now can be flaunting it.

As far as this commander and chief,I don't care if you have coffee with him every morning he is a disgrace to the military and this nation.So you can continue to support him and gays in the military that's your choice,by the way did you ever serve in the armed forces?.a devote believer you say he is,well so am I except i am a believer in Jesus Christ.So you continue to live by your choices and I'll live by mine.

Ironic how as much as you're criticizing people for 'whining' you sound as bad or worse.
Also there's a difference between 'anti-american' and having issues with the way the government is ran. If someone wants to burn flags and condemn the country, then yeah, leave. But if someone isn't happy with things and wishes for change, does that really want an attitude that they somehow don't deserve to live her? Thats ridiculous. If that were the case there would be no one left because everyone has one issue or another with how the government does things. Doesn't make it bad or wrong to feel that way. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I'm just going to come out and say it...

As far as political theory goes, I think democracy is an illegitimate and fundamentally immoral system of government.

Wow. Can you discuss WHY you think this?

Start off by asking "What is the basis of law?". If we assert that the law ought to be based on what is righteous (i.e. morally right/good/true/"beautiful") or some other kind of objective standard of goodness, then we have to ask another question: "Does popularity determine what is righteous?"

If popularity determines what is right and wrong, then democracy is a legitimate basis for lawmaking. If popularity does not determine what is right and wrong, then democracy is an illegitimate basis for lawmaking.




So, to sum up...

1. The law ought to be based on what is righteous.
2. Democracy is a political system based on the rule of the majority/popularity for legislative purposes.
3. The fact that something is popular does not make it righteous.
4. If popularity ≠ righteousness, then democracy does not form a legitimate basis for lawmaking.


Democracy gets you what is popular. Popularity is not truth. Why should we use popularity as the basis for the law?

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing this.

Democracy is based on the premise that ultimately, humans will choose the good/righteous over the bad/unrighteous.

Your argument asserts that this is not true. That a majority of people will not necessarily choose what is good.

So, if your assertion is true, then yes, democracy is not a system of government that will ultimately bring about goodness/righteousness, and the rest of your statements stand logically.

I am not convinced that (a) a majority of people will not choose goodness over evil, and (b) that government ought to be based on righteousness rather than popularity.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that a majority of people will pick what is popular, and not necessarily what is "righteous." I would say Democracy argues that that set of people should be ruled by what is popular, and not by righteousness. Democracy argues that, whether the law is "good" or "bad" is not important -- what is important is that it is a law of the people, by the people, for the people. So sure, they may be left with an immoral government, but it is the government they have chosen.

In other words, I am not convinced that it's a "given" that a "bad" government that its people have chosen is necessarily better than a "righteous" government that is enforced upon the people against their will.

But like I said, excellent logical skills! Thanks.

So, what kind of government do you think is most moral / righteous / whatever?

"The checks and balances of democratic governments were invented because humans themselves realized how unfit they were to govern themselves. They needed a system, yes. An industrial age machine. Without the use of computing machines they had to arrange themselves in crude structures that formalized decision-making. A highly imperfect and unstable solution."

~ Helios

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYfM-frIWlQ[/video]

Hey DUDE apparently you forgot where your paycheck (if your gov. or military) comes from.
Your right freedom isn't free it COST HUGE and its us the taxpayers pickin up the tab so Johnny wanna blow up stuffs like you can blow stuff up.
It also costs huge in human suffering regardless of nationality.
P.S. NO YOU ZIP IT MOUTHPIECE!
I have heard enough from war mongering goofs like you who think that they have it soooo hard when they get back to civilian life it makes me puke.GET A JOB MEATHEAD AND SHUTUP
BTW where did you serve or are you just another wannabe G.I. JOE who thinks his way is the only way!
Have you ever seen a weeping mother wailing her guts out over her dead husband and 4 year old son who's guts are blown to hell because some glory boy thought HEY LETS SHOOT AN RPG INTO THAT MUD HUT CAUSE I WANNA SEE SOMETHING GO BOOM..AAHHHHHHH OR HOW ABOUT A 9 YEAR OLD GIRL WALKING ALONG A ROAD 20 YEARS AFTER THE WAR AND BLOWN TO HELL FROM A LANDMINE LEFT OVER FROM THE COLD WAR? HUH? HUH?
YOUR FREEDOM WAS BOUGHT VERY DEARLY BY THE LIVES OF THOSE I, MY FATHER, MY GRANDFATHER AND 3 OF MY GREAT UNCLES SERVED WITH. NOT 1 OF US EVER *****ED ABOUT MALTREATMENT BY OTHER CIVILIANS IN PIECE TIME. WE MAY NOT HAVE LIKED WHAT THEY HAD TO SAY BUT WE LET THEM HAVE THEIR SAY BECAUSE THATS WHAT WE FOUGHT FOR AND WHAT OUR FREINDS DIED FOR.
EVERY TIME SOMEONE LIKE YOU PIPES UP WITH A POST LIKE THIS IT DETRACTS AND DEGRADES THE MEMORY OF ALL OF THESE MEN WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES SO JERKS LIKE YOU COULD SPOUT OFF WITH YOUR( FREEDOM OF SPEECH SHOULD BE QUELLED ROUTINE).
IF THIS WASN'T A CHRISTIAN SITE MY WORDS WOULD NOT BE SO NICE BELIEVE ME SO THINK TWICE BEFORE POSTING CRAP LIKE THIS AGAIN!

MAY GOD FORGIVE YOU YOUR IGNORANCE