Universal allowance

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
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#1
Im thinking of how in heaven, everything is given free

Though on earth, we still have to earn money, even though its a drag, and there are bills to pay.

my thought experiment was, what if everyone was given a universal allowance. Would that work, and would that eliminate poverty?

for example. what for every year you are given an allowance for the year on your birthday. So a 1 year old is given $100 and if you reach 100 years you will be given $ 100,000

How you choose to spend it will be up to you? Would people be kinder to older people or would the older people choose to spend theres on their grandchildren. If you are young you could save your money until you are old enough for something bigger like a house, car, or education. Or put it into starting a business, or maybe employing someone else. But also it could go on paying bills or extra food, or clothes.

then any work you do on top of that would be extra bonus and it might be work you enjoy doing rather than jobs you do because you have to, and there wont be too much insane over paying or underpaying. Maybe if salaries were fixed in a certain way as well.

what do you think. Or is the way we do things now and pay for them the best way ever invented?
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
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#3
And who would do the less "desirable" jobs? I doubt there would be that many people wanting to dig ditches, shovel poop, or cart of garbage, etc when they could be working a job they love.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
1,079
729
113
#4
Im thinking of how in heaven, everything is given free

Though on earth, we still have to earn money, even though its a drag, and there are bills to pay.

my thought experiment was, what if everyone was given a universal allowance. Would that work, and would that eliminate poverty?

for example. what for every year you are given an allowance for the year on your birthday. So a 1 year old is given $100 and if you reach 100 years you will be given $ 100,000

How you choose to spend it will be up to you? Would people be kinder to older people or would the older people choose to spend theres on their grandchildren. If you are young you could save your money until you are old enough for something bigger like a house, car, or education. Or put it into starting a business, or maybe employing someone else. But also it could go on paying bills or extra food, or clothes.

then any work you do on top of that would be extra bonus and it might be work you enjoy doing rather than jobs you do because you have to, and there wont be too much insane over paying or underpaying. Maybe if salaries were fixed in a certain way as well.

what do you think. Or is the way we do things now and pay for them the best way ever invented?
Work is is part of the consequences of man's rebellion in the garden of Eden. Shirking work is shirking Christian responsibility to family and the brethren. For the Christian, work is the way that money can be extracted from the world system and used in the Kingdom of God.

A universal allowance would not change much. Poverty is often a result of bad choices. Money can be spent on useful things and necessities or wasted on alcohol and drugs, or the purchase of stuff for the sake of it.

The other question is where does the money come from? Right now, it's the printing press in much of the Western world. One day the debt will have to be paid. Just how is the question. The only thing worse than having to go to work every day is being unemployed. It's demonstrable that unemployed people have lower self esteem, are more prone to substance abuse and more likely to get into trouble. People need to be productive, it's how God made us.

Satan wants to destroy every vestige of the image of God in mankind. That's why he promotes the insanity of people being able to choose their gender. That's why automation is robbing people of jobs. It's done with the objective of cutting costs. Short term profit at people's expense. I wonder how Amazon will prosper when no has any money to spend because there are no jobs. It's as if people like Bezos know that time is short and he and his ilk grab what they can, while they can.

Don't be too quick to dismiss work. 2 Thessalonians 3:10
"For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either."
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,402
113
#5
Where would all that money come from?
it would be pulled out of thin air like it is done now with fiat money..its digital.
Every person would have a cash card and account with money loaded on it.

I mean you can manufacture money out of paper or use coins, or shells, but we are now in the digital age.

This is just an interim solution until everything is made free requiring no payment.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,402
113
#6
And who would do the less "desirable" jobs? I doubt there would be that many people wanting to dig ditches, shovel poop, or cart of garbage, etc when they could be working a job they love.
you badly underestimate what people would do if God told them to do it. see, satan has slaves, God has servants.

Even the doorman in heaven has a great job because he's doing it for God.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,402
113
#7
digging ditches and shovelling poop is a GREAT job if you are gardening in Eden. I know lots of people would do it for free because they are creating something wonderful.

trench composting is actually the way to go, far better than getting machines to do it or wasting manure.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,402
113
#8
hmm I would expect some people to say 'poverty is the result of bad choices' and be all judgy, overlooking the fact that, actually much of poverty is the result of someone elses bad choices and thats handed down generationally, as well as poverty being the byproduct of war, disasters, or something completely random that is outside of many peoples control.

But it seems some people are totally clueless about life as theyve been sheltered way too much.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,402
113
#9
I know rich people create a lot of garbage, but if they actually had to deal with their own garbage they would maybe eventually learn NOT to buy and create so much junk lol.
 

MatthewWestfieldUK

Well-known member
May 13, 2021
590
338
63
#10
Im thinking of how in heaven, everything is given free

Though on earth, we still have to earn money, even though its a drag, and there are bills to pay.

my thought experiment was, what if everyone was given a universal allowance. Would that work, and would that eliminate poverty?

for example. what for every year you are given an allowance for the year on your birthday. So a 1 year old is given $100 and if you reach 100 years you will be given $ 100,000

How you choose to spend it will be up to you? Would people be kinder to older people or would the older people choose to spend theres on their grandchildren. If you are young you could save your money until you are old enough for something bigger like a house, car, or education. Or put it into starting a business, or maybe employing someone else. But also it could go on paying bills or extra food, or clothes.

then any work you do on top of that would be extra bonus and it might be work you enjoy doing rather than jobs you do because you have to, and there wont be too much insane over paying or underpaying. Maybe if salaries were fixed in a certain way as well.

what do you think. Or is the way we do things now and pay for them the best way ever invented?
I totally agree, there is enough money. We live in an age where individuals have more wealth than some countries. And that individuals can afford space programmes in countries where there are children going hungry. I don't think this system reflects what the veterans fought for.
I think for one person to have excess while of this suffering is actually a crime
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
17,986
4,781
113
#11
But it seems some people are totally clueless about life as theyve been sheltered way too much.
*Lynx coughs, sputters and goes off to get a glass of water.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
17,986
4,781
113
#12
Are you talking about here on earth or in Heaven? I can't tell. You talk about gardening in Eden, but the first post made it sound like you were thinking of a universal allowance here on earth.

If it's here on earth, and everybody gets money without having to work, how would you make anybody do anything?

If it's in Heaven, why would we need money? There will be nothing to buy or sell.
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
989
817
93
#13
you badly underestimate what people would do if God told them to do it. see, satan has slaves, God has servants.

Even the doorman in heaven has a great job because he's doing it for God.
I agree true Christians would probably take up the slack and do all the "ugly" jobs. But that still leaves 2/3 of the world's population that would, more than likely, sit on their thumbs and let everyone else do the hard work and take the fun, cushy jobs that they always dreamed of.

And your idea was that everyone would be able to work at what they love but then you say Christians would shovel poop, etc. So we don't get the jobs we love because we're servants?
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
989
817
93
#14
it would be pulled out of thin air like it is done now with fiat money..its digital.
Every person would have a cash card and account with money loaded on it.

I mean you can manufacture money out of paper or use coins, or shells, but we are now in the digital age.

This is just an interim solution until everything is made free requiring no payment.
Ok. So the government (I assume) would give us all cards loaded with free, digital money to do basically nothing in exchange for...what? The elite love their power. They love their wealth. They will never give that up without us giving something in return. Probably our freedom.

No thanks!
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,402
113
#15
Ok. So the government (I assume) would give us all cards loaded with free, digital money to do basically nothing in exchange for...what? The elite love their power. They love their wealth. They will never give that up without us giving something in return. Probably our freedom.

No thanks!
well maybe your govt wouldnt.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,402
113
#16
I agree true Christians would probably take up the slack and do all the "ugly" jobs. But that still leaves 2/3 of the world's population that would, more than likely, sit on their thumbs and let everyone else do the hard work and take the fun, cushy jobs that they always dreamed of.

And your idea was that everyone would be able to work at what they love but then you say Christians would shovel poop, etc. So we don't get the jobs we love because we're servants?
funny how you are so cynical!
what job would you like to do for free? dont you already do ten peoples laundry?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,402
113
#17
I totally agree, there is enough money. We live in an age where individuals have more wealth than some countries. And that individuals can afford space programmes in countries where there are children going hungry. I don't think this system reflects what the veterans fought for.
I think for one person to have excess while of this suffering is actually a crime
you know andrew carnegie, well he made heaps of money in the steel and rail. industry I heard. Like so much money he didnt know what to do with it, till he had this idea (where did it come from...God? ) that he would you know...give it away, BEFORE he died. Every last cent.
And that is why all over the world we now have public libraries free for anybody to boorow books.
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
989
817
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#18
funny how you are so cynical!
what job would you like to do for free? dont you already do ten peoples laundry?
Lanolin, I am completely confused by you and your argument. Can you be more clear in what you're trying to say? I mean, you've gone from saying everyone could have their dream job, to insinuating Christians would take up the slack when the majority of the world refuses to do the dirty jobs, to mocking me for agreeing that Christians might be the ones to take up the slack. I'm having a hard time following your point.

You asked "what if everyone got UBI" and would it work. I pointed out why it wouldn't. The majority of the world would take advantage of a UBI system and NOT do the hard jobs because they'd be free to sit on their rears and play video games all day or smoke weed. It's not cynical to point out the truth. This sort of thing has been tried many times before and failed every time.

No, I wouldn't want to work for free. And my point wasn't that Christians would work for free but that they, out of anyone, would be more likely to take up their cross and do the dirty, nasty jobs that everyone else would shirk.

The work I do as a stay-at-home mom has non-monetary rewards and puts me in a position to "train up my children in the way they should go". It's worth not getting a paycheck. If I was to go out into the world and dig ditches, I'd sure as heck want a paycheck.
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
989
817
93
#19
Ok. So the government (I assume) would give us all cards loaded with free, digital money to do basically nothing in exchange for...what? The elite love their power. They love their wealth. They will never give that up without us giving something in return. Probably our freedom.

No thanks!
well maybe your govt wouldnt.
Wouldn't what? Give us free money? Demand our freedom for free money? What are you saying?? And how would your government be any different?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,254
4,402
113
#20
Wouldn't what? Give us free money? Demand our freedom for free money? What are you saying?? And how would your government be any different?
the government upon His shoulders...i.e Jesus

whos govt are YOU talking about?!