Universal allowance

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#21
oh genipher, nobodys asking YOU to dig ditches. You can just be paid to have children.

touchy....
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
27,110
9,210
113
#22
oh genipher, nobodys asking YOU to dig ditches. You can just be paid to have children.

touchy....
You never made it clear what kind of government you were talking about. In your first post it sounded like you were talking about an earthly government that started giving away free money. Now it sounds like you are talking about when we get to heaven.
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
2,269
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#23
You never made it clear what kind of government you were talking about. In your first post it sounded like you were talking about an earthly government that started giving away free money. Now it sounds like you are talking about when we get to heaven.
That's the impression I got. Unless she meant the 1000 year reign with Christ but I wouldn't really see that as "government" and I would assume we wouldn't need money then.
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
2,269
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113
#24
oh genipher, nobodys asking YOU to dig ditches. You can just be paid to have children.

touchy....
Well that's not at all condescending.
😒🙄
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
2,269
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113
#25
the government upon His shoulders...i.e Jesus

whos govt are YOU talking about?!
Again, clarity from the get-go helps thwart confusion.

You said my government was different. What are you insinuating?
 
Jan 6, 2019
61
65
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#26
Im thinking of how in heaven, everything is given free

Though on earth, we still have to earn money, even though its a drag, and there are bills to pay.

my thought experiment was, what if everyone was given a universal allowance. Would that work, and would that eliminate poverty?

for example. what for every year you are given an allowance for the year on your birthday. So a 1 year old is given $100 and if you reach 100 years you will be given $ 100,000

How you choose to spend it will be up to you? Would people be kinder to older people or would the older people choose to spend theres on their grandchildren. If you are young you could save your money until you are old enough for something bigger like a house, car, or education. Or put it into starting a business, or maybe employing someone else. But also it could go on paying bills or extra food, or clothes.

then any work you do on top of that would be extra bonus and it might be work you enjoy doing rather than jobs you do because you have to, and there wont be too much insane over paying or underpaying. Maybe if salaries were fixed in a certain way as well.

what do you think. Or is the way we do things now and pay for them the best way ever invented?
I'm gonna be 17 soon. So, hypothetically, if this were established before my birthday, how much would I get when I turn 17? I can't figure out exactly how much I would be getting, based on your two examples. Am I tacking two zeroes onto the end of my age, like you did to determine that a 1-year-old would get $100 (in which case I would get $1,700) or would I multiply it by a thousand, like you did to give a 100-year-old $100,000 (so that I would be getting $17,000)? Or is the amount that I am multiplying my age by, to figure out how much money I'm getting, changing every year? Sorry, two data points make it kind of hard to be sure of the pattern.

Either way, cool! I get a bunch of money (I don't quite have a job yet, so this would be kinda exciting). I can get all sorts of stuff! A new laptop (I've been meaning to get one for a while), maybe a car? Plus whatever I want throughout the year. I'd save plenty for when I'm older, of course. Maybe for a house, in a few years?

Wait, this money is given annually? I mean, I can't complain too much, especially if it's the $17,000 that I'm getting. That's definitely more money than I've ever had at once. But what about adults living on their own? Even if a 25-year-old is making $25,000 per year and not the $2,500 that could also be assumed from your examples, that doesn't seem like nearly enough to pay for all of a person's bills. If they were to budget out their $25,000 for the year, they would have around $2000 a month. Depending on where you live (and assuming I'm working with USD), this may or may not even be enough to rent an appartment, much less buy food for the year or take college classes.

Also, if everybody is getting this money every year, I can't help but think that there would be at least a little bit of inflation. How would that work?

Sorry if I don't completely understand what you're getting at, or about the world or prices of things. I haven't exactly had any experience with having to buy food or rent an apartment or anything like that, since I'm not quite 17 yet.
 

TenderHeart

Active member
Jul 5, 2021
188
179
43
Florida
#27
hmm I would expect some people to say 'poverty is the result of bad choices' and be all judgy, overlooking the fact that, actually much of poverty is the result of someone elses bad choices and thats handed down generationally, as well as poverty being the byproduct of war, disasters, or something completely random that is outside of many peoples control.

But it seems some people are totally clueless about life as theyve been sheltered way too much.
AMEN, It was an incredibly ignorant statement.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#28
I'm gonna be 17 soon. So, hypothetically, if this were established before my birthday, how much would I get when I turn 17? I can't figure out exactly how much I would be getting, based on your two examples. Am I tacking two zeroes onto the end of my age, like you did to determine that a 1-year-old would get $100 (in which case I would get $1,700) or would I multiply it by a thousand, like you did to give a 100-year-old $100,000 (so that I would be getting $17,000)? Or is the amount that I am multiplying my age by, to figure out how much money I'm getting, changing every year? Sorry, two data points make it kind of hard to be sure of the pattern.

Either way, cool! I get a bunch of money (I don't quite have a job yet, so this would be kinda exciting). I can get all sorts of stuff! A new laptop (I've been meaning to get one for a while), maybe a car? Plus whatever I want throughout the year. I'd save plenty for when I'm older, of course. Maybe for a house, in a few years?

Wait, this money is given annually? I mean, I can't complain too much, especially if it's the $17,000 that I'm getting. That's definitely more money than I've ever had at once. But what about adults living on their own? Even if a 25-year-old is making $25,000 per year and not the $2,500 that could also be assumed from your examples, that doesn't seem like nearly enough to pay for all of a person's bills. If they were to budget out their $25,000 for the year, they would have around $2000 a month. Depending on where you live (and assuming I'm working with USD), this may or may not even be enough to rent an appartment, much less buy food for the year or take college classes.

Also, if everybody is getting this money every year, I can't help but think that there would be at least a little bit of inflation. How would that work?

Sorry if I don't completely understand what you're getting at, or about the world or prices of things. I haven't exactly had any experience with having to buy food or rent an apartment or anything like that, since I'm not quite 17 yet.
good question
well my thought experiment was only this, and yes I did typo so a 100 year old would receive $10,000 on their birthday. Every year it would go up for your birthday. And yes any extra thing needed the person would need to work for and they STILL would receive pay for the work they do!

the other thought was that, maybe in the future there would not be any bills as such. electricity, water and heating would be free. But there might be allocations or a cap on how much a person could use so that people dont over use it or waste it. But I havent thought that far yet. I am certain reneweable energy will be invented and stored (solar, wind, hydro, magnetic) so that we dont really need to worry about that. the clever engineers will have invented something surely.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#29
Ok if it was 1 year old getting $100 annually that might work by the time they reached 17 if they hadnt spent ANY of their allowance they would have saved $15,300

or if it was $1000 per year of age they would then get $17,000 at age 17 plus if they hadnt spent any of their alowance they would have in total $153,000

although I am sure people would probably spend it though it would be up to you.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#30
inflation..my thought would be there would be a deus ex machina that totally stops inflation and the prices would always be fixed lol.

so you could always get a decent pie or a hamburger for $2 and it will stay that way.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
27,110
9,210
113
#31
I am certain reneweable energy will be invented and stored (solar, wind, hydro, magnetic) so that we dont really need to worry about that. the clever engineers will have invented something surely.
I feel like I'm watching a science fiction movie from the '70s.

"It's the year 2020. Poverty has been abolished. There is no more need for countries to go to war. We all have flying cars and everybody is free to take the job that he finds best suited for him..."

They had such high hopes for us! I feel like we somehow let them down.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,549
8,105
113
#33
Im thinking of how in heaven, everything is given free

Though on earth, we still have to earn money, even though its a drag, and there are bills to pay.

my thought experiment was, what if everyone was given a universal allowance. Would that work, and would that eliminate poverty?

for example. what for every year you are given an allowance for the year on your birthday. So a 1 year old is given $100 and if you reach 100 years you will be given $ 100,000

How you choose to spend it will be up to you? Would people be kinder to older people or would the older people choose to spend theres on their grandchildren. If you are young you could save your money until you are old enough for something bigger like a house, car, or education. Or put it into starting a business, or maybe employing someone else. But also it could go on paying bills or extra food, or clothes.

then any work you do on top of that would be extra bonus and it might be work you enjoy doing rather than jobs you do because you have to, and there wont be too much insane over paying or underpaying. Maybe if salaries were fixed in a certain way as well.

what do you think. Or is the way we do things now and pay for them the best way ever invented?
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money"
-Margaret Thatcher

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy"
-Winston Churchill
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
4,041
3,143
113
#34
Isn't this just a form of communism? Everyone gets free money from the government, making all reliant, fully, on the government. 🤔
 
T

tstumf

Guest
#35
Where would all that money come from?
Ask the American Government. They seem to be the experts at printing money out of thin air. Our Government can print money and inject it into the economy by the trillions frivolously and it’s called quantitative easing or stimulus but if a average citizen were to print his own money it’s a felony punishable by prison time and larges fines.🧐 makes sense right? I’m for disbanding the IMF and forcing the US federal reserve to abandon the reserve note and return to silver and gold certificates. The economy would collapse no doubt but it’s a false economy that’s been artificially propped up by Monopoly/ funny money.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#36
instead of printing money or doing it digitally, how about we use something like rocks. each rock is like $1 and a million rocks is $1 million dollars.

So everyone would be giving people crushed rock powder and saying well theres a million rocks in here. That would reverse the economy!

So the powers that be are changing the currency to Flowers. Each flower is worth one, but some flowers might be worth more than others. However lots of flowers would give you way too much hayfever.

I think the american govt is weird, but thankfully it doesnt affect me much since I dont live there. apparently they are in debt as well as everyone else to the invisible world bank. They signed some agreement back in 1948 called the marshall plan to help Europe and just GAVE them $15 billion dollars. Like it wasnt even legal tender money they just wrote a cheque, which you cant do these days anymore, cos banks wont accept cheques now.

I dont know where the american govt got the money from, maybe they just thought well since we got gold we we will just dig it out of California using foreign labourers to dig it out for them. Who knows. Thats capitalism for you.

This is a thought experiment. Its nothing to do with socialism. Its just if you thinking money is anything than just a bunch of numbers then you might be right.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
27,110
9,210
113
#38
I dont know where the american govt got the money from, maybe they just thought well since we got gold we we will just dig it out of California using foreign labourers to dig it out for them. Who knows. Thats capitalism for you.

This is a thought experiment. Its nothing to do with socialism. Its just if you thinking money is anything than just a bunch of numbers then you might be right.
1. You are glibly and contemptuously speaking of things you don't understand.

2. If you DID understand them you would be far less glib, but your contempt would go off the charts.

3. That "thought experiment" has been tried as a real experiment multiple times, and has failed every time. Ask Russia about that.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#39
You arent shaking your head
you just doing a facepalm

wouldnt you rather have a universal allowance than have to depend on the whims of an employer or asking (or brown-nosing) for a raise or winning lotto (gambling) , or have to constantly fight to get fair pay. Or work 80 hours just to break even? the love of money is the root of all evil, so why do people then do stupid things just to get it.

a lot of people dont just automatically have capital or trust funds you know. some people totally forget that. If God has given us grace and everything that is needed to live and provides us with work He has ordained us to do, then why must the cost of living be so high?

either we are living beyond our means, or there must be some other reason, and if the government is upon His shoulders, we can totally appeal to Him to make things right in this world.
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
2,269
1,672
113
#40
I think the american govt is weird, but thankfully it doesnt affect me much since I dont live there. apparently they are in debt as well as everyone else to the invisible world bank. They signed some agreement back in 1948 called the marshall plan to help Europe and just GAVE them $15 billion dollars. Like it wasnt even legal tender money they just wrote a cheque, which you cant do these days anymore, cos banks wont accept cheques now.

I dont know where the american govt got the money from...
Reminds me of this old Clarke and Dawe skit about European debt. :LOL: