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Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
For Example:
[h=3]1 Corinthians 14:34[/h]English Standard Version (ESV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]the women should keep silent in the churches.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 14:34[/h]Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]the women should be silent in the churches,
[h=3]1 Corinthians 14:34[/h]New American Standard Bible (NASB)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]The women are to keep silent in the churches;
[h=3]1 Corinthians 14:34[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Women[SUP][a][/SUP] should remain silent in the churches.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 14:34[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches:
Let your[SUP][a][/SUP] women keep silent in the churches
1 Cor. 14:34 ESV;HCSB;NASB;NKJV;KJV - the women should keep silent in the - Bible Gateway
There! All the versions you asked for and more. Not ONE says ALL the churches or REGIONS. Paul is talking to the churches of Corinth, because that is who the letter is to!
As for the keeping silent, try reading 1 Cor. 11, and you will find that women do not have to be "silent" at all! This truly is about order and decency in a church that had gone off the walls.
1still_waters, you need to look deeper into the text, learn something about the original languages, read the entire book in context, and stop hoping the Bible proves that men are in authority and women are just silent drudges who live to fulfill the whim of the man over them in authority.
Christ is the only authority and God will use who ever he wants and calls to do his work. Including Deborah, Hannah, Esther, Mary, the daughters of Phillip, Phoebe (diakonon in Greek or minister or servant in English, just like every other usage that refers to a man!), Prisca or Priscilla who taught Apollo, by the way!
Read your whole Bible, and stop spouting this nonsense because you don't have the answers and haven't properly read the text!
For Example:
[h=3]1 Corinthians 14:34[/h]English Standard Version (ESV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]the women should keep silent in the churches.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 14:34[/h]Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]the women should be silent in the churches,
[h=3]1 Corinthians 14:34[/h]New American Standard Bible (NASB)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]The women are to keep silent in the churches;
[h=3]1 Corinthians 14:34[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Women[SUP][a][/SUP] should remain silent in the churches.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 14:34[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches:
Let your[SUP][a][/SUP] women keep silent in the churches
1 Cor. 14:34 ESV;HCSB;NASB;NKJV;KJV - the women should keep silent in the - Bible Gateway
There! All the versions you asked for and more. Not ONE says ALL the churches or REGIONS. Paul is talking to the churches of Corinth, because that is who the letter is to!
As for the keeping silent, try reading 1 Cor. 11, and you will find that women do not have to be "silent" at all! This truly is about order and decency in a church that had gone off the walls.
1still_waters, you need to look deeper into the text, learn something about the original languages, read the entire book in context, and stop hoping the Bible proves that men are in authority and women are just silent drudges who live to fulfill the whim of the man over them in authority.
Christ is the only authority and God will use who ever he wants and calls to do his work. Including Deborah, Hannah, Esther, Mary, the daughters of Phillip, Phoebe (diakonon in Greek or minister or servant in English, just like every other usage that refers to a man!), Prisca or Priscilla who taught Apollo, by the way!
Read your whole Bible, and stop spouting this nonsense because you don't have the answers and haven't properly read the text!
1
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
As far as Angela and her paper, and her seminary profs.
Picture it with me if you will.
Angela at a round table with hundreds of Bible translators who worked on the NKJV, ESV, NASB, and NIV.
She opens with...
"And after extensive research on the manuscripts, variations, and the Greek, I conclude the word submit or subject isn't in the Greek in Eph 5:22, and Eph 5:23 doesn't say husbands are the head of their wife."
Then the hundreds of Greek scholars who translated the NIV, NKJV, ESV and NASB would look to her and say.."Well after studying Greek, the manuscripts and variations we come to these conclusions..."
ESV scholars show their work first..
Then the NASB scholars would chime in.....
Followed by NKJV scholars...
Then even the NIV chime in..
Then Angela would look at the hundreds of learned scholars and say.."I came up with different and I know Greek and I look the UBS website"
Then the hundreds of scholars would look at her and say together.." Yeah so do we."
.
As far as Angela and her paper, and her seminary profs.
Picture it with me if you will.
Angela at a round table with hundreds of Bible translators who worked on the NKJV, ESV, NASB, and NIV.
She opens with...
"And after extensive research on the manuscripts, variations, and the Greek, I conclude the word submit or subject isn't in the Greek in Eph 5:22, and Eph 5:23 doesn't say husbands are the head of their wife."
Then the hundreds of Greek scholars who translated the NIV, NKJV, ESV and NASB would look to her and say.."Well after studying Greek, the manuscripts and variations we come to these conclusions..."
ESV scholars show their work first..
Then the NASB scholars would chime in.....
Followed by NKJV scholars...
Then even the NIV chime in..
Then Angela would look at the hundreds of learned scholars and say.."I came up with different and I know Greek and I look the UBS website"
Then the hundreds of scholars would look at her and say together.." Yeah so do we."
.
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1
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
Oh please, then do his rules for how to operate in the gifts only apply to the Corinthians?
Does that mean other churches can operate in disorder/confusion, seeing he only wrote this chapter as applicable to Corinth?
Oh please, then do his rules for how to operate in the gifts only apply to the Corinthians?
Does that mean other churches can operate in disorder/confusion, seeing he only wrote this chapter as applicable to Corinth?
1
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
Does that mean in other churches an interpreter wasn't needed, and in other churches folks could just spout off in tongues in disorder?
If the parts about how to operate in tongues apply to churches outside of Corinth, then so do the parts about women.
Stephen can your church be in disorder with tongues since that chapter only applies to corinth?
Does that mean in other churches an interpreter wasn't needed, and in other churches folks could just spout off in tongues in disorder?
If the parts about how to operate in tongues apply to churches outside of Corinth, then so do the parts about women.
Stephen can your church be in disorder with tongues since that chapter only applies to corinth?
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
UBS is NOT a website. The flaws in your arguments continue to grow.
It is the United Bible Societies which publishes the best study Bibles in the original languages today. I actually got them free in Seminary just for taking Hebrew and Greek. (Yes, I have the Masoretic text, too!)
Here is some information for you:
United Bible Societies
IT IS NOT THE BIBLES THAT I USE TO READ IN THE GREEK AND HEBREWS, OK??
I am very sorry you are so inflexible.
You posted earlier something about "the women should keep silent in ALL the churches" I showed you in all the translations you asked for, and the Greek that the word ALL does not exist. Please relate which translation you got it from. It was a copy and paste. None of the other translations have that word in them - ALL - panta in Greek.
As for me being subject to my husband, or whatever you think proves that women should not teach or preach in churches, it really is none of your business. I have been happily married for 32 years, with 4 grown children and 3 grandchildren. I am very traditional in the home, but God has called me to some amazing ministries within my church and community.
I am a chaplain, I teach and preach godly Christian men all the time. And women, of course!
So my final word of advice, is for you, 1still_waters, to take a step back from your bullying, ranting, and repeating yourself, and calm down.
I would hate to see you have a heart attack over such an unimportant issue as this.
The salvation of the lost is what matters, and you have fallen through the ice on proving yourself doctrinally on the issue of women in ministry. So don't drown, please!
UBS is NOT a website. The flaws in your arguments continue to grow.
It is the United Bible Societies which publishes the best study Bibles in the original languages today. I actually got them free in Seminary just for taking Hebrew and Greek. (Yes, I have the Masoretic text, too!)
Here is some information for you:
United Bible Societies
IT IS NOT THE BIBLES THAT I USE TO READ IN THE GREEK AND HEBREWS, OK??
I am very sorry you are so inflexible.
You posted earlier something about "the women should keep silent in ALL the churches" I showed you in all the translations you asked for, and the Greek that the word ALL does not exist. Please relate which translation you got it from. It was a copy and paste. None of the other translations have that word in them - ALL - panta in Greek.
As for me being subject to my husband, or whatever you think proves that women should not teach or preach in churches, it really is none of your business. I have been happily married for 32 years, with 4 grown children and 3 grandchildren. I am very traditional in the home, but God has called me to some amazing ministries within my church and community.
I am a chaplain, I teach and preach godly Christian men all the time. And women, of course!
So my final word of advice, is for you, 1still_waters, to take a step back from your bullying, ranting, and repeating yourself, and calm down.
I would hate to see you have a heart attack over such an unimportant issue as this.
The salvation of the lost is what matters, and you have fallen through the ice on proving yourself doctrinally on the issue of women in ministry. So don't drown, please!
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
A women being saved in childbirth. Saved from what?
When I was a young Christian we had a new psychologist come to town. The whole Christian community was excited because He was a professing Christian.
In His introduction to the church I belonged to He said proudly (hoping for a positive reaction from the audience) my wife was in labor for ????.
I forget the period of time but it was a ridiculously short period of time for a women's labor, and it was for a first child I believe.
The psychologist very apparently thought that every Christian or at least some would pick up on the truth about being saved in childbirth. None of the older Christians did however. I did, but because of my youth I did not want to speak up.
Being saved in Childbirth (In My opinion) means that the women is saved from the pain.
I feel also that the misunderstanding of this verse is why Catholics of previous generations thought it compulsory to have large families. The more children a women has the more "saved" she will be, and of course everyone wants to be saved to the uttermost.
Respectfully Brian
Brian
A women being saved in childbirth. Saved from what?
When I was a young Christian we had a new psychologist come to town. The whole Christian community was excited because He was a professing Christian.
In His introduction to the church I belonged to He said proudly (hoping for a positive reaction from the audience) my wife was in labor for ????.
I forget the period of time but it was a ridiculously short period of time for a women's labor, and it was for a first child I believe.
The psychologist very apparently thought that every Christian or at least some would pick up on the truth about being saved in childbirth. None of the older Christians did however. I did, but because of my youth I did not want to speak up.
Being saved in Childbirth (In My opinion) means that the women is saved from the pain.
I feel also that the misunderstanding of this verse is why Catholics of previous generations thought it compulsory to have large families. The more children a women has the more "saved" she will be, and of course everyone wants to be saved to the uttermost.
Respectfully Brian
Brian
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
"the man" in that verse is her husband, not her pastor. All of Paul's teachings speak about the wife submitting to her husband's spiritual headship. Only her husband.
Again, you are wrong.
You can say it to you blue in the face, it makes no difference to me, or anybody else that knows the truth.
I know why you can't admit it....... it would mean once more, you have been fooled by a religious organization.
"the man" in that verse is her husband, not her pastor. All of Paul's teachings speak about the wife submitting to her husband's spiritual headship. Only her husband.
Again, you are wrong.
You can say it to you blue in the face, it makes no difference to me, or anybody else that knows the truth.
I know why you can't admit it....... it would mean once more, you have been fooled by a religious organization.
1
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
Oh please. I'm not bullying.
I'm repeating because this is all sooooo simple.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man;
If I were bullying I'd say something like.Agree with me on this non-salvation issue, or I'll ban you.
As you can see Stephen is still here and so are you.
No bullying going on.
Oh please. I'm not bullying.
I'm repeating because this is all sooooo simple.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man;
If I were bullying I'd say something like.Agree with me on this non-salvation issue, or I'll ban you.
As you can see Stephen is still here and so are you.
No bullying going on.
1
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
No when Paul means to address husband/wives, he says husband wives.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
No when Paul means to address husband/wives, he says husband wives.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
You remind me of the little guy behind the curtain speaking into the microphone in the Wizard of Oz.
"I am the all powerful 1still_waters. You must hear my interpretation!!! I will repeat it until you believe it!!!"
Oh, nooooo!! Somebody pulled the curtain!!
You remind me of the little guy behind the curtain speaking into the microphone in the Wizard of Oz.
"I am the all powerful 1still_waters. You must hear my interpretation!!! I will repeat it until you believe it!!!"
Oh, nooooo!! Somebody pulled the curtain!!
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
Actually, in Greek, husband is the same word as man andropos or ἀνδρός and wife is the same word as woman - gynaikes or γυναῖκες.
Give up, 1still_waters, you are just getting hammered here because you haven't got a clue about Greek or hermeneutics or anything about interpreting the Bible.
And just so you know, I am a chaplain in a LUTHERAN facility, which is supported by Missouri Synod and Evangelical Lutheran. And there are many women chaplains in this organization. I work with a male chaplain who is fantastic, and made me learn to love Lutherans.
Maybe the ALL or MOST of the men are not interested in caring for the disabled, the aged, and the demented??
Actually, in Greek, husband is the same word as man andropos or ἀνδρός and wife is the same word as woman - gynaikes or γυναῖκες.
Give up, 1still_waters, you are just getting hammered here because you haven't got a clue about Greek or hermeneutics or anything about interpreting the Bible.
And just so you know, I am a chaplain in a LUTHERAN facility, which is supported by Missouri Synod and Evangelical Lutheran. And there are many women chaplains in this organization. I work with a male chaplain who is fantastic, and made me learn to love Lutherans.
Maybe the ALL or MOST of the men are not interested in caring for the disabled, the aged, and the demented??
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J
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
It's rebellion against God appointed order.
Who is the one getting flustered?
Last line of defense for everyone trying to get around scripture. "It's not salvation, it's just: Creation, Homosexuality, Abortion, Women in ministry, Works, synergism, speaking in tongues, etc.." It's just a ploy to not have to submit to God.
Freud actually had a few things right methinks.
It's rebellion against God appointed order.
Who is the one getting flustered?
Last line of defense for everyone trying to get around scripture. "It's not salvation, it's just: Creation, Homosexuality, Abortion, Women in ministry, Works, synergism, speaking in tongues, etc.." It's just a ploy to not have to submit to God.
Freud actually had a few things right methinks.
J
Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/gune.htm <--- wives in eph 5
Aner - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard <--- husband in eph 5
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/gune.htm <--- wives in eph 5
Aner - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard <--- husband in eph 5
