WORKS SALVATION
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Hi all...I just came back from seeing my pastors wife and she was telling me how her son who is saved has walked away from the Lord, he has got a girlfriend ( unbeliever ) and is doing worldly things...Her son has been spoken to many a time about how dangerous this is to keep walking away, his ears have become deaf and his heart is hardening
the head pastor of the family who has known the child since being carried in his mothers womb has spoken to him, all he got back was a bad attitude from this man telling him " You can`t tell me what to do ", he is not listening to God although God is working through different people in his life to warn him of the dangers, but it is all falling on deaf ears...God has even used his good brother in Christ to show him the error of his ways, nothing is working ...People will say " What about the prodigal son " but then i also see the Scripture that says in Philippians 2:12-Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling... Just a thought come to my mind , why would we be warned to work out our salvation with fear and trembling if we were secure, when God has used X amount of people on our paths to bring us back on the narrow path, what happens if this person does not listen, i think that`s where Nonamemagee post comes in, just a thought.....This young man i am talking about has been saved for many years, i believe our salvation is a daily process, feeding on the word of God to keep us alive, i also believe that falling away must be a daily process, closing the word , ignoring the word untill it`s no longer food...xox...
the head pastor of the family who has known the child since being carried in his mothers womb has spoken to him, all he got back was a bad attitude from this man telling him " You can`t tell me what to do ", he is not listening to God although God is working through different people in his life to warn him of the dangers, but it is all falling on deaf ears...God has even used his good brother in Christ to show him the error of his ways, nothing is working ...People will say " What about the prodigal son " but then i also see the Scripture that says in Philippians 2:12-Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling... Just a thought come to my mind , why would we be warned to work out our salvation with fear and trembling if we were secure, when God has used X amount of people on our paths to bring us back on the narrow path, what happens if this person does not listen, i think that`s where Nonamemagee post comes in, just a thought.....This young man i am talking about has been saved for many years, i believe our salvation is a daily process, feeding on the word of God to keep us alive, i also believe that falling away must be a daily process, closing the word , ignoring the word untill it`s no longer food...xox...
P
You are correct, there is no such thing as a cycle of losing/regaining your salvation. You only get one chance to lose it. After that, you're done. You can not come back. God will not allow it.
Charles Templeton stopped believing and many years later lamented how he missed Jesus. Assuming he was really born again, I think his life illustrates the hard truth that you are not allowed to come back to faith in Christ once you have it and then reject it.
Once a person enters willfully into unbelief after having believed, that's it, it's over. The space where one may still receive the grace of God and be able to return to God in faith is before the unbelief becomes truly settled in the heart and mind of the ex-believer and they aren't merely toying with a return to their old life of unbelief. Only God knows that point in time when the ex-believer toying with unbelief has truly entered willfully into that unbelief and, therefore, will not be allowed to return to faith even if they want to.
Charles Templeton stopped believing and many years later lamented how he missed Jesus. Assuming he was really born again, I think his life illustrates the hard truth that you are not allowed to come back to faith in Christ once you have it and then reject it.
Once a person enters willfully into unbelief after having believed, that's it, it's over. The space where one may still receive the grace of God and be able to return to God in faith is before the unbelief becomes truly settled in the heart and mind of the ex-believer and they aren't merely toying with a return to their old life of unbelief. Only God knows that point in time when the ex-believer toying with unbelief has truly entered willfully into that unbelief and, therefore, will not be allowed to return to faith even if they want to.
P
It depends on what point they come to their senses. If it is during a time of toying with a return to unbelief and they haven't actually embraced it in their heart then God will seek them out and try to bring them back. It is during that time they are allowed to come back to repentance.
But if they are determined by God to be in a decided, willful unbelief, God does not allow repentance in that case. For God does not allow a person to "again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame" (Hebrews 6:6 NASB).
But if they are determined by God to be in a decided, willful unbelief, God does not allow repentance in that case. For God does not allow a person to "again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame" (Hebrews 6:6 NASB).
N
yes
walking in the flesh will close your eyes to truth
harden your heart to lost your God given conscious
and close your ears to true wisdom
but walking in the spirit leads to learning of God and true wisdom
your eyes will see
your ears will hear
and you will soften to be able to love like we are supposed to
Romans 1:28-29
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
we may be saved by faith but
Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
to walk in the spirit
its a way of life
like rosemary said....
if our way of life is of the flesh
we arent in the law of the spirit of life
we arent free of the law of sin and death....
right?
________________________
Proverbs 24:16
16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
limited to only 7?
Matthew 18:21-22
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
no... i dont think so
but its best to not stunt our growth and take every chance we get not being promised tomorrow
to follow our Fathers will today
walking in the flesh will close your eyes to truth
harden your heart to lost your God given conscious
and close your ears to true wisdom
but walking in the spirit leads to learning of God and true wisdom
your eyes will see
your ears will hear
and you will soften to be able to love like we are supposed to
Romans 1:28-29
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
we may be saved by faith but
Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
to walk in the spirit
its a way of life
like rosemary said....
if our way of life is of the flesh
we arent in the law of the spirit of life
we arent free of the law of sin and death....
right?
________________________
Proverbs 24:16
16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
limited to only 7?
Matthew 18:21-22
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
no... i dont think so
but its best to not stunt our growth and take every chance we get not being promised tomorrow
to follow our Fathers will today
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi all...I just came back from seeing my pastors wife and she was telling me how her son who is saved has walked away from the Lord, he has got a girlfriend ( unbeliever ) and is doing worldly things...Her son has been spoken to many a time about how dangerous this is to keep walking away, his ears have become deaf and his heart is hardening the head pastor of the family who has known the child since being carried in his mothers womb has spoken to him, all he got back was a bad attitude from this man telling him " You can`t tell me what to do ", he is not listening to God although God is working through different people in his life to warn him of the dangers, but it is all falling on deaf ears...God has even used his good brother in Christ to show him the error of his ways, nothing is working ...People will say " What about the prodigal son " but then i also see the Scripture that says in Philippians 2:12-Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling... Just a thought come to my mind , why would we be warned to work out our salvation with fear and trembling if we were secure, when God has used X amount of people on our paths to bring us back on the narrow path, what happens if this person does not listen, i think that`s where Nonamemagee post comes in, just a thought.....This young man i am talking about has been saved for many years, i believe our salvation is a daily process, feeding on the word of God to keep us alive, i also believe that falling away must be a daily process, closing the word , ignoring the word untill it`s no longer food...xox...
the head pastor of the family who has known the child since being carried in his mothers womb has spoken to him, all he got back was a bad attitude from this man telling him " You can`t tell me what to do ", he is not listening to God although God is working through different people in his life to warn him of the dangers, but it is all falling on deaf ears...God has even used his good brother in Christ to show him the error of his ways, nothing is working ...People will say " What about the prodigal son " but then i also see the Scripture that says in Philippians 2:12-Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling... Just a thought come to my mind , why would we be warned to work out our salvation with fear and trembling if we were secure, when God has used X amount of people on our paths to bring us back on the narrow path, what happens if this person does not listen, i think that`s where Nonamemagee post comes in, just a thought.....This young man i am talking about has been saved for many years, i believe our salvation is a daily process, feeding on the word of God to keep us alive, i also believe that falling away must be a daily process, closing the word , ignoring the word untill it`s no longer food...xox...
Interesting post.
Must leave.
Later...
D
Gonna try again, this time in a different vein.
Most of the furniture and knick knacks I grew up with were from Mom and her side of the family. One of the things was a pink glass vase. I saved it when she died. I still have it.
I saved it. It is saved. It will remain saved (until I die or it gets broken, and I might even save it if it breaks.)
You keep saying that the Savior has his part and the Saved has it part. What part does that vase have for me saving it? Do I have to put flowers in it for it to be worthy of its salvation? It's purpose is to hold flowers and the water required to keep the flowers from wilting quickly, so it does have a work to do. But did I save it for that work? Nope. Is it less saved if I never put flowers in it? Nope. Should it have flowers in it? Well, I do put flowers in it, but not all the time. Does not having flowers in it make it less saved? Is it working out it's salvation? Nah, not really. I just saved it because I think it's pretty and it was Mom's.
I get we are saved for a purpose, but we're also saved because the Savior wanted to save us for whatever reason he wanted to. Ultimately our purpose will to be to worship God and love him forever, but honestly? We're not little toy soldiers set up in an eternal hallelujah choir so God can soak in his own goodness. He soaks in his own goodness even before he said his first, "Let there be."
And there is no after salvation, because the Lord isn't going to die or break us.
I think you get stuck on the word "salvation." I'm not saying that's a bad word or you're wrong, but again semantics means something. And salvation is a very good word. We are the Saved. Jesus is the Savior. He intends to keep us forever, even when we aren't doing what we were created to do. BUT he is also training us to do what we were created to do -- work! So, it's not like that's where you're wrong. It's that you seem to keep thinking you got to do something to make yourself worthy to be saved, to keep salvation, or to hold up your end of the bargain. Nope, nope, and nope.
In this case, the Savior is the worthy one, he keeps the saved, and he held up the bargain.
Because of that, (not around that, in that, over that, or under that), we want to work.
I'll grant you there are quite a few on BDF that will assault you until the cows come home because you have to do it their way, or you're wrong. But, who cares? As long as you know you're God's permanent pink flower vase, you will always want to know where the flowers are to hold. God still loves you when the flowers go into another vase or die. It's a good gig to be one of a few that God decided to save, and we do get to work for him. Better gig because we get to tell everyone else that they can have the same great gig, without ever losing our job.
Most of the furniture and knick knacks I grew up with were from Mom and her side of the family. One of the things was a pink glass vase. I saved it when she died. I still have it.
I saved it. It is saved. It will remain saved (until I die or it gets broken, and I might even save it if it breaks.)
You keep saying that the Savior has his part and the Saved has it part. What part does that vase have for me saving it? Do I have to put flowers in it for it to be worthy of its salvation? It's purpose is to hold flowers and the water required to keep the flowers from wilting quickly, so it does have a work to do. But did I save it for that work? Nope. Is it less saved if I never put flowers in it? Nope. Should it have flowers in it? Well, I do put flowers in it, but not all the time. Does not having flowers in it make it less saved? Is it working out it's salvation? Nah, not really. I just saved it because I think it's pretty and it was Mom's.
I get we are saved for a purpose, but we're also saved because the Savior wanted to save us for whatever reason he wanted to. Ultimately our purpose will to be to worship God and love him forever, but honestly? We're not little toy soldiers set up in an eternal hallelujah choir so God can soak in his own goodness. He soaks in his own goodness even before he said his first, "Let there be."
And there is no after salvation, because the Lord isn't going to die or break us.
I think you get stuck on the word "salvation." I'm not saying that's a bad word or you're wrong, but again semantics means something. And salvation is a very good word. We are the Saved. Jesus is the Savior. He intends to keep us forever, even when we aren't doing what we were created to do. BUT he is also training us to do what we were created to do -- work! So, it's not like that's where you're wrong. It's that you seem to keep thinking you got to do something to make yourself worthy to be saved, to keep salvation, or to hold up your end of the bargain. Nope, nope, and nope.
In this case, the Savior is the worthy one, he keeps the saved, and he held up the bargain.
Because of that, (not around that, in that, over that, or under that), we want to work.
I'll grant you there are quite a few on BDF that will assault you until the cows come home because you have to do it their way, or you're wrong. But, who cares? As long as you know you're God's permanent pink flower vase, you will always want to know where the flowers are to hold. God still loves you when the flowers go into another vase or die. It's a good gig to be one of a few that God decided to save, and we do get to work for him. Better gig because we get to tell everyone else that they can have the same great gig, without ever losing our job.
Doesn't this make our worth a product of His own worth, not of ourselves?
He loved us while we were reprehensible, and while we did not believe, and while we hated Him. So how could it have anything to do with our actions or thoughts what we are worth to Him? But i know He considered us worth creating, and worth revealing Himself to, and i know also that i am worthless without Him. So those two things have to fit together somehow.
He loved us while we were reprehensible, and while we did not believe, and while we hated Him. So how could it have anything to do with our actions or thoughts what we are worth to Him? But i know He considered us worth creating, and worth revealing Himself to, and i know also that i am worthless without Him. So those two things have to fit together somehow.
Hi all...I just came back from seeing my pastors wife and she was telling me how her son who is saved has walked away from the Lord, he has got a girlfriend ( unbeliever ) and is doing worldly things...Her son has been spoken to many a time about how dangerous this is to keep walking away, his ears have become deaf and his heart is hardening the head pastor of the family who has known the child since being carried in his mothers womb has spoken to him, all he got back was a bad attitude from this man telling him " You can`t tell me what to do ", he is not listening to God although God is working through different people in his life to warn him of the dangers, but it is all falling on deaf ears...God has even used his good brother in Christ to show him the error of his ways, nothing is working ...People will say " What about the prodigal son " but then i also see the Scripture that says in Philippians 2:12-Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling... Just a thought come to my mind , why would we be warned to work out our salvation with fear and trembling if we were secure, when God has used X amount of people on our paths to bring us back on the narrow path, what happens if this person does not listen, i think that`s where Nonamemagee post comes in, just a thought.....This young man i am talking about has been saved for many years, i believe our salvation is a daily process, feeding on the word of God to keep us alive, i also believe that falling away must be a daily process, closing the word , ignoring the word untill it`s no longer food...xox...
the head pastor of the family who has known the child since being carried in his mothers womb has spoken to him, all he got back was a bad attitude from this man telling him " You can`t tell me what to do ", he is not listening to God although God is working through different people in his life to warn him of the dangers, but it is all falling on deaf ears...God has even used his good brother in Christ to show him the error of his ways, nothing is working ...People will say " What about the prodigal son " but then i also see the Scripture that says in Philippians 2:12-Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling... Just a thought come to my mind , why would we be warned to work out our salvation with fear and trembling if we were secure, when God has used X amount of people on our paths to bring us back on the narrow path, what happens if this person does not listen, i think that`s where Nonamemagee post comes in, just a thought.....This young man i am talking about has been saved for many years, i believe our salvation is a daily process, feeding on the word of God to keep us alive, i also believe that falling away must be a daily process, closing the word , ignoring the word untill it`s no longer food...xox...
Your post brings up so many thoughts.
The first one is that one can indeed walk away from God. I've seen this myselff and yet I'm told that it's not possible.
I'll say that although it's very difficult to walk away from God once one has known Him and felt His love,
John 6:68
"Lord to whom shall we go? YOU have the words of eternal life."
NASB
we cannot say that it's not POSSIBLE.
The reasons will vary and the above reason which you speak of is a potent one.
What is felt in our humanity more than love? Only strong pain.
Interesting: The two extremes.
The Young man, at the point in time, is feeling his love for this girl more than his love for God.
God is not visible, she is.
It's my belief that he will come to realize on his own that he can ask forgiveness and still be with God.
The persons that are trying to help him are sort of forcing him to make a choice -- I doubt this could be done at this time.
God is a merciful God and He knows how fragile we are.
Only God and the Young man know what is going on in the heart. The Others only see the physical result.
I keep hearing on these threads about how grace reigns and how God sees the heart and how merciful He is and how Jesus did just everything... But then when push comes to shove I see legalists and pharisees. True hypocrisy.
God will call him back and I believe he will go back --- all on his own with the help of God.