Yoga - Why do Christians think it's bad?

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Nov 26, 2018
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#41
So with God, with originally humans making something for worshipping another god or false religion, do you think he would want his people to continue doing that stuff even if they aren't doing it for worship of another God?

Music is different. It was intended for good but can be used for evil. Yoga was for other things of another false god and to live in the ways they believe in their religion, so it was originally something I know would upset God. I see we can just ignore the religious meanings, but I don't think God would want us posing poses he knows that mean things invented for a false religion and lies. I'm sure he would rather us find something else or even make up our own way to exercise.
I started researching more about the yoga thing. I do see some problems with the framework used to analyze it.

Yoga may be describing a physical / ethereal reality, that exists as is, and cannot be denied. I think this part we must study and learn more about it.

The part that seems problematic is the prescriptive part: meditation, certain breathing techniques, state of mind purposefully revering the sun, etc. is a no, no.

There seem to be studies that show that the physical aspects can help with strength, balance, flexibility, endurance and the like. The problem seems to start where improper breathing techniques are done, where visualization of energies entering and departing the body happens, and when there is an intention of union with the divine substance of the universe or like concept.

I found a case study in internet:

https://isaalmasih.net/isa/indonesian-kundalini.html

If you read it, you will notice that the supervisors were actually promoting black magic, as harmless white magic under the name of Kundalini yoga. The practitioner had to resort to charms / amulets, etc.

No normal Christian in his / her sane mind would partake in that.

My worrying with throwing the baby with the baby wash water, is that if you read the case study, when the yogi practitioner visited a christian service, he felt energy touch / influence him (we assume is the Holy Spirit), but how could he have sensed it if he did not have a energy sensing system.

On subsequent visit, that same energy intensified, and the practitioner felt an entity (dark by the way: as in bad one), leave him.

When the Bible talks about streams of living water pouring out of us (under the influence of the Holy Spirit), I have to hypothesize that what is actually happening is the contrary of kundalini. Instead of an occult energy traveling up the spine to affect the brain, what happens in Christianity is the Holy Spirit's influence traveling down (from the tongue as of fire atop), to sanctify matter.

That is what Jesus came to do: baptize with the Holy Spirit to redeem creation to original state where matter was sacred due to the Holy Spirit presence.

We are living stones, part of the New Temple of God, where the Holy Spirit resides. That does not make us the Holy Spirit dwelling but vessels for righteous use. Big difference.

And I think is key, because any system affirming that we through divinization (like yoga affirms) we can be like God, is way out of whack.

Theosis from a Christian perspective must be understood as having eternal life, and being a vessel for the dwelling of the Holy Spirit, not achieving godhood, as in having self-existence. The only Being with Self-existence is God, and will always be the only One to have that aseity. That is what makes Him worthy of all creature's worship of HIm.

Now do not misunderstand me. I do not promote yoga, I have not practiced the esoteric part of it, and will probably never do any meditation, breathing, visualize energies for deification, none of that nonsense.

I do think that the description of the energetic systems in human body deserve closer study, as persons with abilities have witnessed the existence of such, and even some instruments have noticed that some form of electromagnetic field surrounds us and affects, and is affected by environment and other persons.

It has been proven that certain practice of positions help with strength, flexibility, balance, and helps with pain, arthritis, etc.

I am glad that this subject came up, as now I can research more to see what are the underlying issues.
 
Aug 12, 2013
306
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#42
I started researching more about the yoga thing. I do see some problems with the framework used to analyze it.

Yoga may be describing a physical / ethereal reality, that exists as is, and cannot be denied. I think this part we must study and learn more about it.

The part that seems problematic is the prescriptive part: meditation, certain breathing techniques, state of mind purposefully revering the sun, etc. is a no, no.

There seem to be studies that show that the physical aspects can help with strength, balance, flexibility, endurance and the like. The problem seems to start where improper breathing techniques are done, where visualization of energies entering and departing the body happens, and when there is an intention of union with the divine substance of the universe or like concept.

I found a case study in internet:

https://isaalmasih.net/isa/indonesian-kundalini.html

If you read it, you will notice that the supervisors were actually promoting black magic, as harmless white magic under the name of Kundalini yoga. The practitioner had to resort to charms / amulets, etc.

No normal Christian in his / her sane mind would partake in that.

My worrying with throwing the baby with the baby wash water, is that if you read the case study, when the yogi practitioner visited a christian service, he felt energy touch / influence him (we assume is the Holy Spirit), but how could he have sensed it if he did not have a energy sensing system.

On subsequent visit, that same energy intensified, and the practitioner felt an entity (dark by the way: as in bad one), leave him.

When the Bible talks about streams of living water pouring out of us (under the influence of the Holy Spirit), I have to hypothesize that what is actually happening is the contrary of kundalini. Instead of an occult energy traveling up the spine to affect the brain, what happens in Christianity is the Holy Spirit's influence traveling down (from the tongue as of fire atop), to sanctify matter.

That is what Jesus came to do: baptize with the Holy Spirit to redeem creation to original state where matter was sacred due to the Holy Spirit presence.

We are living stones, part of the New Temple of God, where the Holy Spirit resides. That does not make us the Holy Spirit dwelling but vessels for righteous use. Big difference.

And I think is key, because any system affirming that we through divinization (like yoga affirms) we can be like God, is way out of whack.

Theosis from a Christian perspective must be understood as having eternal life, and being a vessel for the dwelling of the Holy Spirit, not achieving godhood, as in having self-existence. The only Being with Self-existence is God, and will always be the only One to have that aseity. That is what makes Him worthy of all creature's worship of HIm.

Now do not misunderstand me. I do not promote yoga, I have not practiced the esoteric part of it, and will probably never do any meditation, breathing, visualize energies for deification, none of that nonsense.

I do think that the description of the energetic systems in human body deserve closer study, as persons with abilities have witnessed the existence of such, and even some instruments have noticed that some form of electromagnetic field surrounds us and affects, and is affected by environment and other persons.

It has been proven that certain practice of positions help with strength, flexibility, balance, and helps with pain, arthritis, etc.

I am glad that this subject came up, as now I can research more to see what are the underlying issues.
Isn't it crazy that often we see chapels having weekly classes for just yoga? Oi...
 
Nov 26, 2018
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#43
I haven't done it, I looked into it and even found a Christian who used to teach it and he knows what all of it means. He even used to be a of Buddhism. Here is a video where he explains why it is wrong.


All I know, is if something had a sinful purpose to begin with, and just because we aren't doing it for the purpose is what created but we are still doing the action, that doesn't make it good.
That is like doing magic, you don't do it for evil or use it for evil, but it is still magic and evil.

I'm sure there are other things you can find to help you feel better, exercise, breath and all that yoga does. It's not the only program in the world that is good for your body and mind.

I see the point you make, but I think that certain parts of the physical components are useful:

flexib wk png.png

wall stretch poses png.png

mo stretches png.png

goal n px comb png.png

mo poses png.png

And you do not get the stretch, stabilization strength, balance, etc. doing other kind of exercises. Redeem the bad part of culture:
check all, and retain what is good.

No to meditation, breathing in strange and damaging patterns, no to visualization of energies traveling up your spine, just do the excellent balance, stretch, flexibility, stabilization and coordination exercises.
 

dave_in_KWC

Senior Member
May 21, 2014
138
21
18
#44
Hi Dave, I understand what you are trying to say, I have never done yoga formally. But things are not so clear cut in my opinion.

I saw a book that acknowledge that acupuncture for minor surgery worked for some 70% of the test subjects. I thought it was interesting. At the time I was interested in joining PMRS (para medical rescue service), as an EMT, I read that such group would go to places where disaster struck, and voluntarily tried to help. Acupuncture to help in western medical treatment seemed like an ok option.
Thank God never did join, and never did I get involved.

The situation with Yoga is a complicated one. They talk about Chakras (energy vortices), that are present in our body and serve as processors of energy systems. From what I have read, the lower energy systems, have been associated with strange entities, and supposedly affect you, but not sure which way and why.

In Tai Chi exercises (Chinese), energy from the Earth must be visualized to enter via the feet, and distributed all around for health benefits.

Some American scientists, were born with the ability to see auras (human magnetic fields), they allegedly attest to the existence of chakras, and they noticed that imbalances in energy have a correspondent physical condition (could be disease), but not sure which is the cause of what.

One particular scientist talks about bioenergetic streamers, and suggest that 90% of communication is non-verbal. Allegedly we use the bioenergetic streamers to connect and communicate with other human beings.

The tough part is that Jesus said that rivers of living water would flow out of believers, and some Christians have had visions in which energy emanating from the lower belly, was able to negatively affect evil spirits...

I think we have not been able to study in deep all of this field. I wish some persons could go to Charismatic services and describe what they see.

The scientist using higher sense perception to look at the human aura, could know when someone was a cocaine user, because she said that such activity creates an ugly mucus like energetic substance near the most used nostril.

Mind blowing, a lot of caution needed about all this because it may all be a devil trap.

Yoga also encourages to blank thought and let the senses expand, so that while meditating, the practitioner eventually can tell the presence of other entities at a distance.

All very strange. When Jesus talked about cords of love to bring persons to Him, and sin as binding the person, some think the speech is akin to bioenergetic streamers.

So the question is: if there is wordly, demonic, natural knowledge, and knowledge from on high, can there also be wordly (as in Earthly), demonic, an godly energies?

In charismatic services where miracles occur, there is usually a description of electricity like energy felt right before the healing, and Pastors usually associate it with the Holy Spirit. We know the Holy Spirit is not a power, force or anything like that, so maybe such manifestations are just the result of His work.

I think a lot of research is needed in all of this.

Kind regards.
Dear Hamilton,

I'll respond to one of the many issues you have raised here: Let's talk about Jesus and his power and where it came from.

Did Jesus Use Qi?

Jesus did not heal by channeling a universal energy or qi, but was acting with the power of God. As Acts 10:38 says, "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him."
The power of God was not coming through a technique or secret teaching, but from the person of Jesus Christ as an aspect of his deity. When Jesus conferred this power specifically to His disciples, He "gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness," (Matthew 10:1, Mark 3:13-15, Luke 9:1).
It is Christ's authority over illness that Christ gave the disciples, not a secret teaching or technique. This authority over disease was only one aspect of his power and authority as the Son of God. He also demonstrated authority in His teaching (Matthew 7:29), authority over demons (Matthew 8:28-24, also in Mark 5:1-17, Luke 8:22-25, and many other passages), authority to forgive (Matthew 9:5, also in Mark 2:10, Luke 5:24), authority over nature (Matthew 8:23-27; also Mark 4:36-41, Luke 8:22-25), and authority over death (Matthew 9:23-26; John 11:43-45).
After His resurrection, Jesus was given all authority: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." (Matthew 28:18). Jesus also said, "I have spoken openly to the world; I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and I spoke nothing in secret" (John 18:20).
Jesus' ability to heal was not only a sign of his fulfillment of prophecies of the Messiah, but magnified the glory of God. After the blind man by the side of the road was healed in Luke 18:35-43, he followed Jesus, "glorifying God; and when all the people saw it, they gave praise to God," (verse 43). This same praising of God happened after Jesus healed the paralytic (Matthew 9:2-8, Mark 2:10-12, Luke 5:22-26), and when He healed the "lame, crippled, blind, dumb, and many others...so that the multitude marveled as they saw the dumb speaking, the crippled restored, and the lame walking, and the blind seeing; and they glorified the God of Israel" (Matthew 15:30, 31).

Questions About Qi
By definition, a force or energy has unknown attributes and is blind to human need. How can a force show compassion, or bring healing, peace, or harmony? To do so would require an intelligence exercising will and choice, traits lacking in an impersonal force. How does one reconcile belief in an impersonal force with the belief in bad chi and good chi? Bad or good chi indicates moral sensibility and purpose, which are attributes of a personal intelligence. Yet chi and prana are supposedly not personal. One should ponder whether he/she can be comfortable with such a contradictory situation.
Qigong or qi-ssage may make the person feel better, but there may be a spiritual cost and, ironically, a physical cost as well.
The power of chi/qi, or any other system dealing with qi energy, pales in comparison to the power of Christ, who was given authority and power over all authorities, powers and dominions, both in heaven and on earth (Matthew 28:18; Ephesians 1:20, 21; Philippians 2:9-11; 1 Peter 3:22).
If you do not know that Jesus Christ is the Good Shepherd (John 10: 11, 14), the Living Bread from heaven (John 6:33, 51), the Messiah (John 4:25-26), the Lamb who atoned for sins (John 1:29, 36; Revelation 5:12, 7:10, 22:1, 3), the Door to pastures of eternal life (John 10:9), and the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 6:9), consider these words about and from Jesus:
For this is the will My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day. John 6:40
And Jesus came up and spoke to them saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.' Matthew 28:18
Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven." Mark 14: 61, 62


Recommended Resource
Examining Alternative Medicine: An Inside Look at the Benefits & Risks, by Paul C. Reisser, Dale Mabe, and Paul Velarde. See especially chapters 5 and 6 on energy and chi/qi.

From: Marcia Montenegro was a professional astrologer who believed and practiced many New Age/Eastern beliefs before receiving Christ as her personal Savior. She began a website called Christian Answers for the New Age to help Christians better understand the dangers of New Age/Eastern beliefs and how they are making inroads into the church and Christian community.

"All that glitters is NOT Gold"

Best,

dave_in_KWC
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
7,437
1,233
113
#45
So the question is: if there is wordly, demonic, natural knowledge, and knowledge from on high, can there also be wordly (as in Earthly), demonic,
I don't believe these things need to be researched as you suggest, but left alone imho.

There is this to consider while knowing Yoga is about "self:"

"Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice." James 3:13-16
 
Nov 26, 2018
93
32
18
#46
Dear Hamilton,

I'll respond to one of the many issues you have raised here: Let's talk about Jesus and his power and where it came from.

Did Jesus Use Qi?

Jesus did not heal by channeling a universal energy or qi, but was acting with the power of God. As Acts 10:38 says, "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him."
The power of God was not coming through a technique or secret teaching, but from the person of Jesus Christ as an aspect of his deity. When Jesus conferred this power specifically to His disciples, He "gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness," (Matthew 10:1, Mark 3:13-15, Luke 9:1).
It is Christ's authority over illness that Christ gave the disciples, not a secret teaching or technique. This authority over disease was only one aspect of his power and authority as the Son of God. He also demonstrated authority in His teaching (Matthew 7:29), authority over demons (Matthew 8:28-24, also in Mark 5:1-17, Luke 8:22-25, and many other passages), authority to forgive (Matthew 9:5, also in Mark 2:10, Luke 5:24), authority over nature (Matthew 8:23-27; also Mark 4:36-41, Luke 8:22-25), and authority over death (Matthew 9:23-26; John 11:43-45).
After His resurrection, Jesus was given all authority: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." (Matthew 28:18). Jesus also said, "I have spoken openly to the world; I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and I spoke nothing in secret" (John 18:20).
Jesus' ability to heal was not only a sign of his fulfillment of prophecies of the Messiah, but magnified the glory of God. After the blind man by the side of the road was healed in Luke 18:35-43, he followed Jesus, "glorifying God; and when all the people saw it, they gave praise to God," (verse 43). This same praising of God happened after Jesus healed the paralytic (Matthew 9:2-8, Mark 2:10-12, Luke 5:22-26), and when He healed the "lame, crippled, blind, dumb, and many others...so that the multitude marveled as they saw the dumb speaking, the crippled restored, and the lame walking, and the blind seeing; and they glorified the God of Israel" (Matthew 15:30, 31).

Questions About Qi
By definition, a force or energy has unknown attributes and is blind to human need. How can a force show compassion, or bring healing, peace, or harmony? To do so would require an intelligence exercising will and choice, traits lacking in an impersonal force. How does one reconcile belief in an impersonal force with the belief in bad chi and good chi? Bad or good chi indicates moral sensibility and purpose, which are attributes of a personal intelligence. Yet chi and prana are supposedly not personal. One should ponder whether he/she can be comfortable with such a contradictory situation.
Qigong or qi-ssage may make the person feel better, but there may be a spiritual cost and, ironically, a physical cost as well.
The power of chi/qi, or any other system dealing with qi energy, pales in comparison to the power of Christ, who was given authority and power over all authorities, powers and dominions, both in heaven and on earth (Matthew 28:18; Ephesians 1:20, 21; Philippians 2:9-11; 1 Peter 3:22).
If you do not know that Jesus Christ is the Good Shepherd (John 10: 11, 14), the Living Bread from heaven (John 6:33, 51), the Messiah (John 4:25-26), the Lamb who atoned for sins (John 1:29, 36; Revelation 5:12, 7:10, 22:1, 3), the Door to pastures of eternal life (John 10:9), and the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 6:9), consider these words about and from Jesus:
For this is the will My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day. John 6:40
And Jesus came up and spoke to them saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.' Matthew 28:18
Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven." Mark 14: 61, 62


Recommended Resource
Examining Alternative Medicine: An Inside Look at the Benefits & Risks, by Paul C. Reisser, Dale Mabe, and Paul Velarde. See especially chapters 5 and 6 on energy and chi/qi.

From: Marcia Montenegro was a professional astrologer who believed and practiced many New Age/Eastern beliefs before receiving Christ as her personal Savior. She began a website called Christian Answers for the New Age to help Christians better understand the dangers of New Age/Eastern beliefs and how they are making inroads into the church and Christian community.

"All that glitters is NOT Gold"

Best,

dave_in_KWC
Thanks for the resource recommendation. Is not available in electronic format, is there any other similar available in electronic format that you know of?

We are in the same wavelength. The power of God and His Holy Spirit is where it is at. But to me that power is sent from above to spiritualize matter (just the way it was in the beginning in the garden), all was in ok order because the presence of God in the Holy Spirit was around.

After transgression the Holy Spirit left, and havoc wreaked.

I do not favor chi / qi or whatever you call it. I agree that the Holy Spirit and His influence is the way to go.

But notice: there is a system where this power travels, so that can be used for healing, miracles, etc. and I see that some do not want to acknowledge that there has to be a system that at present we are not aware of by which the streams of living water can flow to others for the benefit of the Kingdom of God.

That is what I am careful about. Just because at present we do not understand it nor can measure its activities, does not mean that is not there.

I was impressed by the lady that could see auras (born with that ability), and could tell if you were using cocaine because of the etheric mucus near the nose, and could tell if persons were in an adulterous relation at work, because of the chords that started connecting between them, etc.

Think of the breakthrough for ministry, if such a system could be understood and used for godly purposes. No more lying sheep, telling bunch of lies to the congregation and to the Pastor / Minister about your old man habits.

You would be confronted with truth, the truth that you are not changed the way you should have changed in regeneration, and thus mark you as a fake believer, or an incomplete one.

Do you know how much easier the lives of minister would be if they could blatantly see the true state of the sheep.

But notice, occultists do not want such abilities to be developed by godly people, nor by ministers, nor by pastors, because that would expose the infiltrated tares in the congregation.

Think of it, Paul used to look into the eyes of a person and was able to tell if the person had faith to be healed or if the person was a fake trying to buy the gift of God for ungodly profit.

I will give you a bad analogy, because it will touch the sensitivities of many persons. In a classic book of Christianity (not the Bible), there was a critique of modern means of transport, as if they were of the devil.

True many people die because of them, but how many are saved also because of it? Missionaries, ambulances, police, firemen, you see, the means were not the problem, but the use.

Like wise, if Jesus talks of power from above, how does it then transfers to others by the laying of hands? is there a system that allows that to happen? am I expected in christian stewardship to take care of it, and keep it top shape so the my use as vessel for honorable tasks is maximized?

I hope you catch my drift. There are more things that we do not know and that we should be studying because they are related directly to our task of expanding the Kingdom of God.

A simplistic approach, as in, is of the devil and stay away from it does not cut it, because the Bible tells me to check all and retain what is good.

Do not misunderstand me, I am not interested in Kundalini energy, nor having a serpent energy go up my spine to illuminate my brain, I am interested in the power from on high, the Holy Spirit, to burn down all that is not His, all bad influence in chakras, energy vortices or whatever you want to call the, I want bad stuff destroyed and the remaining system sanctified.

I really wait for the day that true believer scientist start to look into this of magnetic fields around us, and how it works and how are they composed, and how the Holy Spirit turns it into a Kingdom expanding supporting system for the glory of God.

I hope you see the difference of what I am advocating.

I am not trying to be dogmatic like other traditions have been in the past, saying that the Earth was the center of the Universe when there was scientific evidence that that was not so, and the Bible never said such thing.

Dogmatism without scientific proof or God's revealed truth, does not cut it with me. I do not think that is what Jesus prescribed for us, and much less what Jesus would teach us.

Discern, analyze, check scriptures, pray and fast to know all things from the Father, which the Holy Spirit will reveal to you... that is the kind of thrusts I see in the Bible.

Kind regards.
 
Nov 26, 2018
93
32
18
#47
I don't believe these things need to be researched as you suggest, but left alone imho.

There is this to consider while knowing Yoga is about "self:"

"Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice." James 3:13-16
I respect your opinion.

I myself disagree. Note from the answer I gave to other poster:

Answer to another poster:

"
We are in the same wavelength. The power of God and His Holy Spirit is where it is at. But to me that power is sent from above to spiritualize matter (just the way it was in the beginning in the garden), all was in ok order because the presence of God in the Holy Spirit was around.

After transgression the Holy Spirit left, and havoc wreaked.

I do not favor chi / qi or whatever you call it. I agree that the Holy Spirit and His influence is the way to go.

But notice: there is a system where this power travels, so that can be used for healing, miracles, etc. and I see that some do not want to acknowledge that there has to be a system that at present we are not aware of by which the streams of living water can flow to others for the benefit of the Kingdom of God.

That is what I am careful about. Just because at present we do not understand it nor can measure its activities, does not mean that is not there.

I was impressed by the lady that could see auras (born with that ability), and could tell if you were using cocaine because of the etheric mucus near the nose, and could tell if persons were in an adulterous relation at work, because of the chords that started connecting between them, etc.

Think of the breakthrough for ministry, if such a system could be understood and used for godly purposes. No more lying sheep, telling bunch of lies to the congregation and to the Pastor / Minister about your old man habits.

You would be confronted with truth, the truth that you are not changed the way you should have changed in regeneration, and thus mark you as a fake believer, or an incomplete one.

Do you know how much easier the lives of minister would be if they could blatantly see the true state of the sheep.

But notice, occultists do not want such abilities to be developed by godly people, nor by ministers, nor by pastors, because that would expose the infiltrated tares in the congregation.

Think of it, Paul used to look into the eyes of a person and was able to tell if the person had faith to be healed or if the person was a fake trying to buy the gift of God for ungodly profit.

I will give you a bad analogy, because it will touch the sensitivities of many persons. In a classic book of Christianity (not the Bible), there was a critique of modern means of transport, as if they were of the devil.

True many people die because of them, but how many are saved also because of it? Missionaries, ambulances, police, firemen, you see, the means were not the problem, but the use.

Like wise, if Jesus talks of power from above, how does it then transfers to others by the laying of hands? is there a system that allows that to happen? am I expected in christian stewardship to take care of it, and keep it top shape so the my use as vessel for honorable tasks is maximized?

I hope you catch my drift. There are more things that we do not know and that we should be studying because they are related directly to our task of expanding the Kingdom of God.

A simplistic approach, as in, is of the devil and stay away from it does not cut it, because the Bible tells me to check all and retain what is good.

Do not misunderstand me, I am not interested in Kundalini energy, nor having a serpent energy go up my spine to illuminate my brain, I am interested in the power from on high, the Holy Spirit, to burn down all that is not His, all bad influence in chakras, energy vortices or whatever you want to call the, I want bad stuff destroyed and the remaining system sanctified.

I really wait for the day that true believer scientist start to look into this of magnetic fields around us, and how it works and how are they composed, and how the Holy Spirit turns it into a Kingdom expanding supporting system for the glory of God.

I hope you see the difference of what I am advocating.

I am not trying to be dogmatic like other traditions have been in the past, saying that the Earth was the center of the Universe when there was scientific evidence that that was not so, and the Bible never said such thing.

Dogmatism without scientific proof or God's revealed truth, does not cut it with me. I do not think that is what Jesus prescribed for us, and much less what Jesus would teach us.

Discern, analyze, check scriptures, pray and fast to know all things from the Father, which the Holy Spirit will reveal to you... that is the kind of thrusts I see in the Bible."

Kind regards.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
65,953
3,724
113
#48
You don't need to see auras to be able to tell if someone snorts coke, or if two people at work are having an affair..

The runny nose and flirtatious behavior gives them away every time.. lol
 
Nov 26, 2018
93
32
18
#49
You don't need to see auras to be able to tell if someone snorts coke, or if two people at work are having an affair..

The runny nose and flirtatious behavior gives them away every time.. lol
LOL, blue ladybug, remember most ministers are men, and do not have the ability to catch subtle clues like many femmes do.

Can you tell when a persons is surrounded by unclean spirits, and into occultist practices? most can't those that do usually have the gift of discernment of spirits, or are involved in esoteric practices.

Spiritual gifts were given to the church for the edification of the Body of Christ. If someone states that the higher gifts ceased because none in their tradition has them, I would not buy it, unless they showed me in the Scriptures where Jesus or an Apostle says: Higher gifts will be operative until the closing of the Canon, after that they will not be needed.

Such thinking falls off the table right away, because the promise of Jesus (who is the miracle worker) said He would be with us to the end of time (not the end of the closing of the Canon).

What I find funny is that infiltrated occultists that are trying to push an ungodly agenda, keep selling the cessation of higher gifts, when they themselves are involved in all class of esoteric trash to have metaphysical powers to manipulate, influence for the worse, and even try to cause harm.

Do they want the higher gifts operating in the Church? of course not, because then their dark deeds will come to light, and their agenda stopped.

At the end, we common sheep will laugh, because them infiltrated tares, will eventually will be plucked out and tied up and thrown in the lake of fire, and they will not be able to do anything about it.

So my best advice to them: repent and seek for the mercy of God, now that He is reachable. At some point there will be no chance to turn around and dire consequences will ensue.

Kind regards.
 

claysmithr

Senior Member
May 23, 2017
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#50
Yoga is Hindiusm. Should Christians be worshiping false gods?

People who claim to know God yet go after idols will get the harshest judgement, as the book of Ezekiel shows.
 
Nov 26, 2018
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#51
Yoga is Hindiusm. Should Christians be worshiping false gods?

People who claim to know God yet go after idols will get the harshest judgement, as the book of Ezekiel shows.
Thanks for speaking your mind. Any activity has a lot of elements to it. And sometimes some elements are neutral in the moral aspect.

Are martial arts bad? many think yes. But guess what, if it wasn't for the Spartans, we would be under tyranny and mysticism, and the West as a culture would have never flourished.

Is military stuff bad? many thing so, but if it was not for the hardliners, we would all be probably talking German or Japanese or other language, and truly forced to worship a man as a god, etc.

Things are not so clear cut, many times (if not most) are grey.

There is scientific research that shows that the physical elements of yoga posture, can help tons with lumbar pain, arthritis, stiffness, balance, circulation, etc.

Would I do the sun salutation? no, I do not follow a prescribed order of poses nor do I visualize any energies entering or exiting me.

There are particular poses that help with the back, the legs, the arms and shoulders etc. I do not do any special breathing pattern. And I do not let any Hindu Guru near me, unless is coincidental and to talk to him / her about true God.

Now in the descriptive part in yoga, somehow they realize there is an energy transferring, irrigating, processing system that humans have, and that has effect in the lives of persons.

With some instruments, and some persons born with abilities in the West (yes Christian), have validated the fact that there is an electromagnetic field surrounding living beings, and that it is influenced and in some cases influences other fields.

I am baffled that it seems that no Christian scientists have studied this to see what is about, and to know more to see how it can be used for Kingdom of God purposes.

When the Bible tells of elders able to discern spirits, good and bad, etc. by what precise means do they achieve that? Can we investigate what this is all about? should we?

I think yes, because from what I have read, occultist are way into the use of electromagnetic fields for trying to control and influence for the bad humans.

Are there ways to counter that, and even be in the offense against that?

When Paul discerned that someone was after the gospel for wrong motives and prophesied that the person would be temporally blinded as a sign that the person was spiritually blind, what actually happened? the Holy Spirit blinded the person? or energy flowed from Paul so that scales formed in the person from the holiness of a vessel used for godly purposes?

Many questions that have not been addressed. Accounts of energy, virtue, breath of life, new spirit, are found in the Bible, and according to Jesus not acknowledging them is wrong (Saduccees' skepticism was not approved), there is a spiritual realm , and it seems to interact with our physical one, are we to investigate moe?

I rather have a christian scientist look into this and truthfully tell me what is found, than hear a secular one, or a dogmatic believer that does not even do objective research because of wrong presuppositions, previous erroneous understandings, or wrong assumptions.

If we are to reject all because of origin, lets not write anymore, because the Sumerians were out of whack, let's not do chemistry because it originated with alchemists, let's not watch movies (even christian ones), because filming was started by occultists, you see how ridiculous certain arguments can get.

I will put it plainly: a true believer, full of the Holy Spirit, completely given to Christ, can go into a yoga class (if prompted by the Holy Spirit), and fight off the devils that the Guru has, shock the whole psychic atmosphere there so that persons either convert or are more willing to listen to the gospel, and all of that because we carry the light of Christ, and darkness is no contending to that light.

If I ever encounter a person from the yoga background and some how conversation starts, I can then be like Paul and tell them my story: how physical poses helped with certain stiff areas, how balance and strength improved, and I can explain why I do not believe in Kundalini, but in the real creator of all: God, how He bestows the Holy Spirit, and changes lives, and does not cause side effects like those experiencing kundalini bad effects due to wrong ritual, I would be a lamp for them to see truth.

But if you demonize them before you establish a minimum common ground, you will not be as accepted nor believed.

Redeeming bad parts of culture: that means that maybe not all in a culture is bad, so look for it and learn to establish common ground with the lost in that culture.

My own non-expert opinion, and I do not advocate doing any of this if not mature in Christ.
 

eedyaH

New member
Dec 1, 2018
9
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#52
A lot of tradition in Christmas came from pagan roots but we turned them into ways to promote the gospel.

The bible tells us to take care of our bodies and I am sure stretching is a great way to do it. Here in America, this is what Yoga is. Stretching and breathing. If the word Yoga bothers you since that's what bothers Christians then find a class that stretches.
Agreed. I do stretches;) and pilates 3x a week. This helped me a lot.
I don't celebrate christmas because of its history but nowadays Christians celebrate it as the birth of our savior. I have nothing against it, I do like how everybody's happy during this season and think about their spirituality. It's how you perceive it.
 
Nov 26, 2018
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#53
Agreed. I do stretches;) and pilates 3x a week. This helped me a lot.
I don't celebrate christmas because of its history but nowadays Christians celebrate it as the birth of our savior. I have nothing against it, I do like how everybody's happy during this season and think about their spirituality. It's how you perceive it.
Hi eedyaH. Many stretches and positions in yoga are superb, pilates is also good, but some real hard poses in yoga (not found in pilates) can truly develop proprioception (key to many sports) and balance / coordination / engagement of support muscles.

It is true that Jesus was not born in December, as the pastors were out with the flock when they saw the star, something that could have not happened in December.

But it would be heart breaking for the children in the family to not celebrate, they get all illusioned. We conservatedly may tolerate some of it, and clearly explain to the children that thanks to God's providence, we are able to enjoy dinner, and have resources to get gifts for all, and all due to the goodness, mercy, and care of an always good God for us.

God is good, and His h:hesed is forever is the lesson.

Thanks for sharing.