Orthodox Jew answers a few questions

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
How does that square with being an orthodox Jew? I thought the Torah and the Prophets were very clear on the position concerning Jews and Israel.
There has always been Orthodox Jews who were in opposition to Zionism and the creation of the state of Israel. What they are thinking and the way that would strike an Christian though are different. That is those who opposed it see that the Messiah is who is to establish it and not men(not a secular government but instead a theocracy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Zionism
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,648
6,717
113
Romans 9:6 Context

3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Are you an orthodox Jew? I highly doubt an orthodox Jew is going to explain their position by quoting the apostle Paul.

So your answer does not address my question.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,648
6,717
113
There has always been Orthodox Jews who were in opposition to Zionism and the creation of the state of Israel. What they are thinking and the way that would strike an Christian though are different. That is those who opposed it see that the Messiah is who is to establish it and not men(not a secular government but instead a theocracy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Zionism
Once again, I am asking the person who started this thread saying she was going to answer questions we might have for Orthodox Jews. I would like her to tell me how she squares things.

Anyone can claim to be "orthodox", but when the Jews were carried off to Babylon they were supposed to return to Israel after 70 years, some did, many did not. I don't care if those who remained if Babylon claimed to be "orthodox" as far as my reading of the Bible they didn't obey the word of God.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
Once again, I am asking the person who started this thread saying she was going to answer questions we might have for Orthodox Jews. I would like her to tell me how she squares things.

Anyone can claim to be "orthodox", but when the Jews were carried off to Babylon they were supposed to return to Israel after 70 years, some did, many did not. I don't care if those who remained if Babylon claimed to be "orthodox" as far as my reading of the Bible they didn't obey the word of God.

Yep,, or it might something as simple as she's unhappy with them because they messed up her passport...who knows right why jump the gun...
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
Are you an orthodox Jew? I highly doubt an orthodox Jew is going to explain their position by quoting the apostle Paul.

So your answer does not address my question.
No, I am not an Orthodox Jew quoting the apostle Paul.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,648
6,717
113
No, I am not an Orthodox Jew quoting the apostle Paul.
So it doesn't answer my question to Aviva "How does that square with being an orthodox Jew?"
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
"How does that square with being an orthodox Jew?"
Maybe the O.J.s understand the importance of being a spiritual Jew. Maybe they understands that circumcision must be of the heart as well as the ________.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,648
6,717
113
Maybe the O.J.s understand the importance of being a spiritual Jew. Maybe they understands that circumcision must be of the heart as well as the ________.
Why are you trying to answer for Aviva?
 

Aviva

Active member
Dec 3, 2023
192
54
28
27
Canada
It's so much fun watching people speculate on what I mean by "not crazy about Israel" I kind of what to not answer now.

Unless people are up on Israeli politics I'm not sure what I can say that will resonate with anyone.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
It's so much fun watching people speculate on what I mean by "not crazy about Israel" I kind of what to not answer now.

Unless people are up on Israeli politics I'm not sure what I can say that will resonate with anyone.

Ahh good old politics... It's just going to be that way for both of us like in Shmuel 1:5 where they ask for a king to judge them like all the nations. I say both of us because they said "like all the nations" so the king was just like the ones in all the other nations. https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15837/jewish/Chapter-8.htm
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
770
302
63
With the stakes of eternal destination being so high, would you be open to hearing the Gospel, from a Torah perspective, in ways maybe you haven't heard before?

Just in case you say no, let me give you just one. Probably my favorite one from Genesis. If this intrigues you at all, please let me know, and I'll present others that are just as compelling:

The seemingly boring and unimportant genealogy of Genesis 5.
This is the "Christian" Gospel. Directly embedded in the Torah.

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

Adam - Man
Seth - Appointed
Enosh - Mortal
Kenan - Sorrow
Mahalalel - The Blessed God
Jared - Shall come down
Enoch - Teaching
Methuselah - His death shall bring
Lamech - The despairing
Noah - Rest


Adam
Adam’s name means “man”. As the first man, that seems straight forward enough.

Seth
Adam’s son was named Seth, which means “appointed”. Eve said, “For God hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.”[4]

Enosh
Seth’s son was called Enosh, which means “mortal, frail, or miserable”. It is from the root anash, “to be incurable”, used of a wound, grief, woe, sickness, or wickedness.

It was in the days of Enosh that men began to defile the name of the Living God.[5]

Kenan
Enosh’s son was named Kenan, which can mean “sorrow, dirge, or elegy”. (The precise denotation is somewhat elusive; some study aids unfortunately presume that Kenan is synonymous with Cainan.)

Balaam, looking down from the heights of Moab, uses a pun upon the name of the Kenites when he prophesies their destruction.[6]

We have no real idea as to why these names were chosen for their children. Often they may have referred to circumstances at birth, and so on.

Mahalalel
Kenan’s son was Mahalalel, from mahalal which means blessed or praise; and El, the name for God. Thus, Mahalalel means the “Blessed God”. Often Hebrew names include El, the name of God, as Dan-i-el, “God is my Judge”, etc.

Jared
Mahalalel’s son was named Jared, from the verb yaradh, meaning “shall come down”.[7]

Enoch
Jared’s son was named Enoch, which means “teaching, or commencement”. He was the first of four generations of preachers. In fact, the earliest recorded prophecy was by Enoch, which amazingly enough deals with the Second Coming of Christ (although it is quoted in the Book of Jude in the New Testament):

Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, “Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against.”​
Methuselah
Enoch was the father of Methuselah, who we have already mentioned. Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah.[8] Apparently, Enoch received the prophecy of the Great Flood, and was told that as long as his son was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld. The year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Enoch, of course, never died: he was translated[9] (or, if you’ll excuse the expression, raptured). That’s how Methuselah can be the oldest man in the Bible, yet he died before his father!

Lamech
Methuselah’s son was named Lamech, a root still evident today in our own English word, “lament or lamentation”. Lamech suggests despairing.

(This name is also linked to the Lamech in Cain’s line who inadvertently killed his son Tubal-Cain in a hunting incident.[10])

Noah
Lamech, of course, is the father of Noah, which is derived from nacham, “to bring relief or comfort”, as Lamech himself explains in Genesis 5:29.
Great post brother.
Methuselah also lived the longest among those mentioned in the Bible. His death shall bring the flood......Gods abundant Grace!

Its conjecture. But some scholars believe that Methuselah died 7 days before the flood.They went into the ark 7 days prior to the flood to grieve Methuselah's death. If I remember right Methuselah was Noah's grandfather?
 

ReQuiem

New member
Jul 31, 2022
28
9
3
As the title says, I'm an Orthodox Jewish woman. My Christian sister in law asked me to post a little about us since the subject has come up recently due to recent world issues to answer some confusion/misinformation.

1. Why don't you have sacrifices?
A. Because they can only be done at the temple in Jerusalem buy a Levitical priest. Since the temple no longer exists we can no longer do this.

2. How do you get forgiveness?
A. repent and make restitution, depending on the offended party. (G-d, a person, etc...)

3. What is the Talmud?
A. It is a large number of books containing very boring debates and commentary on the Torah. Although considered scripture it is not additional laws, it is opinions and rulings base don existing law (The Torah).

4. Why don't Jews believe in Jesus?
A. Because we do not believe he meets the requirements to be the Messiah. There are numerous commentaries online if you really want a deeper answer.

5. Do you believe in Hell, the Devil, or the afterlife?
A. No, not really and yes.

Cheers!
I am quite intrigued by the "not really" in point 5; who do you say is הַשָּׂטָ֖ן in Job 1:6?
 

Aviva

Active member
Dec 3, 2023
192
54
28
27
Canada
I am quite intrigued by the "not really" in point 5; who do you say is הַשָּׂטָ֖ן in Job 1:6?
We don't believe in fallen or renegade angels. We believe Satan is just another angel with a designed purpose. So while there is a Satan in the Tanakh we do not ascribe any of the attributes to him that Christians do.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
770
302
63
But that is not what God had said. He said that IN THE DAY (THE VERY DAY) Adam disobeyed the commandment to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would SURELY DIE. (The issue of mortality is not even in view since Adam lived for 930 years after he disobeyed God).

Obviously you have no answer for why he did not physically die on that very day, and when God says something He means exactly what He says. But we know why. And we also know why all human beings die physically, and many also face the second death.
It's been a while since I have studied this, but the original language is plural in the deaths of Adam.....Dying you shall surely die. Spiritual and physical.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
It's been a while since I have studied this, but the original language is plural in the deaths of Adam.....Dying you shall surely die. Spiritual and physical.
Yes. The word translated as "surely" is actually "to die". So in Hebrew it is the same word repeated twice. The fact that Adam did not drop dead on that very day should give everyone food for thought. What exactly was God saying since God always says what He means, and means what He says?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
There has always been Orthodox Jews who were in opposition to Zionism and the creation of the state of Israel.
This is true, since Zionism as such had no use for the Messiah. And one of the tenets of Orthodox Judaism is that they are waiting for their Messiah. Unfortunately the man who will present himself as their Messiah will be the Antichrist (who will probably also present himself to Muslims as their "Messiah", and to the unbelieving world he will claim to be God (while sitting in the future temple). Here is an article from the Jerusalem Post

Zionists didn’t wait for the Messiah - opinion
To those who believed in waiting for the Messiah, they said we can return to Israel without a Messiah.
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-733348
 

Aviva

Active member
Dec 3, 2023
192
54
28
27
Canada
This is true, since Zionism as such had no use for the Messiah. And one of the tenets of Orthodox Judaism is that they are waiting for their Messiah. Unfortunately the man who will present himself as their Messiah will be the Antichrist (who will probably also present himself to Muslims as their "Messiah", and to the unbelieving world he will claim to be God (while sitting in the future temple). Here is an article from the Jerusalem Post

Zionists didn’t wait for the Messiah - opinion
To those who believed in waiting for the Messiah, they said we can return to Israel without a Messiah.
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-733348
That is completely ridiculous. The Messiah must be an observant Jew, therefore he cannot in any way follow Islam. There's also the minor fact that we don't believe in an antiChrist. If he claimed to be G-d that would immediately disqualify him.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
This is true, since Zionism as such had no use for the Messiah. And one of the tenets of Orthodox Judaism is that they are waiting for their Messiah. Unfortunately the man who will present himself as their Messiah will be the Antichrist (who will probably also present himself to Muslims as their "Messiah", and to the unbelieving world he will claim to be God (while sitting in the future temple). Here is an article from the Jerusalem Post

Zionists didn’t wait for the Messiah - opinion
To those who believed in waiting for the Messiah, they said we can return to Israel without a Messiah.
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-733348

They also said that although they obeyed G-d and built houses in Babylon, then the next head of the beast M-Persia and then under Greece that they saw no need to complete that punishment under the fourth beast Rome and obey G-d and revolted instead against G-d's judgment,,=(1st,2nd and 3rd Jewish revolt)... oh and PS,,, don't forget that while tallying up that They will believe that man of sin is their long awaited Messiah or that the Islamic's will believe him to be their Mahdi that Christians are awaiting the return of Christ and many will believe him to also be the same...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.