Orthodox Jew answers a few questions

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iamsoandso

iamsoandso

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iamsoandso said:
They also said that although they obeyed G-d and built houses in Babylon, then the next head of the beast M-Persia and then under Greece that they saw no need to complete that punishment under the fourth beast Rome and obey G-d and revolted instead against G-d's judgment,,=(1st,2nd and 3rd Jewish revolt)... oh and PS,,, don't forget that while tallying up that They will believe that man of sin is their long awaited Messiah or that the Islamic's will believe him to be their Mahdi that Christians are awaiting the return of Christ and many will believe him to also be the same...
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My intention was to not post from the NT because I did not want to create an uncomfortable environment for the author of the OP but I must say because of my former post that all Christians should bare in mind 2 Thess. 2 verse 4 in that that he will exalt himself above EVERY so called G-d so not just the Jews Messiah or the Islamic's Mahdi but he will also pretend to be Jesus returning in the second coming... EVERY object of worship... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/2.htm
 
A

Aviva

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iamsoandso said:
My intention was to not post from the NT because I did not want to create an uncomfortable environment for the author of the OP but I must say because of my former post that all Christians should bare in mind 2 Thess. 2 verse 4 in that that he will exalt himself above EVERY so called G-d so not just the Jews Messiah or the Islamic's Mahdi but he will also pretend to be Jesus returning in the second coming... EVERY object of worship... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/2.htm
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Doing those things would invalidate his claims to be said Messiah.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Aviva said:
...If he claimed to be G-d that would immediately disqualify him.
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What you mention is supposed to actually occur in the future. The imposter, known as the antichrist, will deceive many for a period of time. However, the truth will come to light, and he disqualified, when he has the audacity to sit in the temple and declare himself to be God.
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (2 Thess. 2:3-4)
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

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ReQuiem

ReQuiem

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Aviva said:
We don't believe in fallen or renegade angels. We believe Satan is just another angel with a designed purpose. So while there is a Satan in the Tanakh we do not ascribe any of the attributes to him that Christians do.
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As christians we believe the "sons of God" of Genesis 6 are angels and that they are to be punished for what they did.
What is your view about these; are they angels? And was it right for them to go unto the daughter of men?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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ReQuiem said:
As christians we believe the "sons of God" of Genesis 6 are angels and that they are to be punished for what they did.
What is your view about these; are they angels? And was it right for them to go unto the daughter of men?
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I'm a Christian. I don't believe that passage is referring to angels.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Aviva said:
That is completely ridiculous. The Messiah must be an observant Jew, therefore he cannot in any way follow Islam. There's also the minor fact that we don't believe in an antiChrist. If he claimed to be G-d that would immediately disqualify him.
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The only problem here is that according to New Testament prophecy God will send STRONG DELUSION upon the whole world. Which means that the Antichrist will be able to deceive millions and also pretend to be an observant Orthodox Jew. He will also perform dazzling miracles to imitate Christ, and will also have a False Prophet alongside to further dazzle the world and deceive it. Since you have read the NT you will find all of this in it.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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ZNP said:
Why are you trying to answer for Aviva?
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Because this is a public forum and that's the way things work around here. If you want to try and pin people into corners and apply the old rope-a-dope, then you came to the wrong place. ;)
 
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Aviva

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A

Aviva

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Any person who claims divinity or follows any other religion other the Judaism will be rejected as Messiah, even if he does miracles. Such a thing would totally contradict the Torah and Messiaic prophecy. The Torah specifically says that any person who preaches to follow anyone other then G-d, or ignore the Torah is a false prophet. Even if he performs miracles he is still a false prophet and we know this. G-d does not purposely blind or confuse people into idolatry or sin because that is a violation of free will.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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Aviva said:
There's also the minor fact that we don't believe in an antiChrist.
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Please try to keep an open mind for when this person shows up. It could be very soon. We won't be here to warn you. We will have gone up in the Rapture.

Aviva said:
If he claimed to be G-d that would immediately disqualify him.
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When he initially shows up, he probably won't. We have no idea what his nationality will be. We know that he will broker a peace treaty and the Temple will likely be rebuilt. 3 1/2 years later everything will go to crap and hit the fan.
 
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Aviva

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oyster67 said:
Please try to keep an open mind for when this person shows up. It could be very soon. We won't be here to warn you. We will have gone up in the Rapture.


When he initially shows up, he probably won't. We have no idea what his nationality will be. We know that he will broker a peace treaty and the Temple will likely be rebuilt. 3 1/2 years later everything will go to crap and hit the fan.
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We don't believe in the rapture or an apocalypse. G-d said the world and his law is everlasting and eternal.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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oyster67 said:
Because this is a public forum and that's the way things work around here. If you want to try and pin people into corners and apply the old rope-a-dope, then you came to the wrong place. ;)
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Yes it is an open forum and anyone who can answer the question is welcome, the question is how Aviva, a proclaimed Orthodox Jew, reconciles her understanding of the Torah and the Prophets with her view of Israel, which it seems she is ambivalent to based on her answers.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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iamsoandso said:
My intention was to not post from the NT because I did not want to create an uncomfortable environment for the author of the OP but I must say because of my former post that all Christians should bare in mind 2 Thess. 2 verse 4 in that that he will exalt himself above EVERY so called G-d so not just the Jews Messiah or the Islamic's Mahdi but he will also pretend to be Jesus returning in the second coming... EVERY object of worship... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/2.htm
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Yes. 3 1/2 years into the Trib. We call this the beginning of Great Trib.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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I have a couple of questions about Isaiah 53 concerning what Orthodox Jews understand from these verses.

Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Question 1 -- When Isaiah says that the Lord has laid the iniquity of us all on Him is he saying that He will be the scape goat for the sins of all the people? If so does that mean he will be driven from the people of Israel as an outcast?

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Question 2 -- For the transgression of my people he was stricken -- does this mean He is the lamb that is sacrificed as the atoning sacrifice?

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Is this talking about the Messiah? If so it says he makes his grave? I thought the Messiah inherits an eternal kingdom, so why is He dead?
 
oyster67

oyster67

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Aviva said:
We don't believe in the rapture or an apocalypse.
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The Bible says you won't. Not until later.

Romans 11:25
“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

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oyster67 said:
Yes. 3 1/2 years into the Trib. We call this the beginning of Great Trib.
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Hmm how to say this,,,

For instance Daniel 9 I often use here on CC https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/9.htm And then there's Daniel 9 that is used by the Jewish https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16492? and one of the many ways they would see it https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/daniel-9-a-true-biblical-interpretation/ Anyway notice that the words are different in say,,,verse's 24-25 and that we see one interpretation and they see another interpretation.
 
ReQuiem

ReQuiem

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Cameron143 said:
I'm a Christian. I don't believe that passage is referring to angels.
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What do you think Jude 6-7 is referring to?

"6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Are you gonna tell me bene ha-Elohim are humans and benowt ha-Adam are some other kind of human like some people do?
So riddle me this, what kind of bene ha-Elohim went to give an account to God in Job?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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ReQuiem said:
What do you think Jude 6-7 is referring to?

"6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Are you gonna tell me bene ha-Elohim are humans and benowt ha-Adam are some other kind of human like some people do?
So riddle me this, what kind of bene ha-Elohim went to give an account to God in Job?
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Verse 6 refers to fallen angels.
Verse 7 explains what it means to not keep your former estate. An example is made of Sodom Gomorrah. It is an example of how humans left their first estate and is what Paul writes about at the end of Romans 1.
 
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