Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

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Oct 28, 2017
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#61
We immerse ourselves in water daily, when we wash.
(Well, I hope so.)

So is it the immersion in water that saves a man?
Obviously not.
Plenty among the unsaved take baths.

So is baptism in water necessary?
Listen to what the baptist says.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:
but He that comes after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Matthew 3:11

Pray for the baptism in the Spirit, that you not end up in the fire.
Paul
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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#62
You folks can try to trivialize it as much as you want.... scripture says otherwise. And, more importantly, JESUS says otherwise.

The apostle Peter said otherwise, Paul said otherwise, Philip said otherwise, in fact everyone said otherwise up until Martin Luther came along and decided that immersion didn't mean what it meant...

Now it has been degraded to being something that might be "nice" to do, but not all that important....

Personally, I'd rather go by what scripture says.
 
Oct 28, 2017
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#63
Thank you, hornetguy.

I do appreciate a sincere reproof.
But I don't take the Lord's words lightly,
though I can see how it may seem, for I speak with a light heart.
Allow me to explain myself, for I go by God's word too.

Jesus showed me the living waters is God's word.
Those that believe on Him as the scripture says have living waters flowing forth from their bellies.
So when we preach the word, we are immersing our audience in God's words. The living waters.
Just thin wafers, mingled with oil, if they can't bear God's words much yet.
Or we can do cakes mingled with oil, when we fellowship with believers.
Always delivered with frankincense.

This is how Jesus taught me to baptize in His name.

Bless God
Paul
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#64
We immerse ourselves in water daily, when we wash.
(Well, I hope so.)

So is it the immersion in water that saves a man?
Obviously not.
Plenty among the unsaved take baths.

So is baptism in water necessary?
Listen to what the baptist says.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:
but He that comes after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Matthew 3:11

Pray for the baptism in the Spirit, that you not end up in the fire.
Paul
when I was young I live in the countryside where every body bathing in the river every day and diving
 
Oct 26, 2017
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#65
when I was young I live in the countryside where every body bathing in the river every day and diving
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even ….BAPTISM doth also NOW save us….. (NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Baptism has NOTHING to do with "taking a bath to cleans the SKIN"........ BUT RATHER...... to cleans us of our sins, putting us in contact with the cleansing blood of Christ.

 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
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#66
Humm
When I first read the title of this thread, I thought to myself “ great what have they replaced water with ?”
Several thoughts ran through my head. Was it wine , sand , potatoe salad? Glad to see I have been mistaken.
I guess my brain needs to rest a bit after a long days work.
Blessings
Bill
 

plaintalk

Senior Member
Jul 20, 2015
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#67
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; [SUP]9 [/SUP]not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (Eph. 2: 8- 10) NASB

(1) The grace of God, giving his Son to taste death for everyone, is the basis of salvation, not the Law. (Heb. 2: 9)
(2) Salvation is to be saved or freed from sin and its consequences, condemnation and death. (Matt. 1: 21)
(3) Jesus provides our introduction into this grace through faith, not works. (Rom. 5: 2)
(4) Faith is not alone, now, in this present world, it abides, remains or co-exists with hope and love, love being the greatest. (1 Cor. 13: 13)
(5) Faith is a gift of God and a work of God that opens the door for a relationship with God. (John 6: 29)
(6) Grace and salvation are not of works. (Rom. 11: 5; 2 Tim 1: 9)
(7) Works are responses of which we might boast as our trust is in ourselves, not God. (Luke 18: 9)
(8) Justification is not by works of the Law as the Law is not of faith (Gal. 2: 16; 3: 12); Salvation is not by works of righteousness (Titus 3: 5) as our trust is in ourselves. (Luke 18: 9)
(9) Work of faith and obedience of faith are by definition and practice “of faith” and do contribute to and precede salvation. (1 Thess. 1: 3; Rom 1: 5)
· Confessing His name before men (Rom. 10: 10; Matt. 10: 32. 33)
· Calling on the name of the Lord (Acts 2: 21; Rom. 10: 13)
· Repentance in the name of Christ (2 Cor. 7: 10; Acts 11: 18)
· Baptism in the name of Christ (Mark 16: 15, 16; 1 Peter 3: 21)
· Obedience (Heb. 5: 9; Acts 6: 7)
(10) Since faith is a work of God, a work of faith is a work of God, not our work or a work of which we nay boast.
(11) We were created by God for good works, to walk in them. Those who persevere in doing good shall be rewarded with eternal life. (Rom. 2: 6- 10)

God bless!
 
Feb 9, 2017
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#68
In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation. For more information, please visit our webpage on "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Those who believe that baptism is required for salvation are quick to use 1 Peter 3:21 as a “proof text,” because it states “baptism now saves you.” Was Peter really saying that the act of being baptized is what saves us? If he were, he would be contradicting many other passages of Scripture that clearly show people being saved (as evidenced by their receiving the Holy Spirit) prior to being baptized or without being baptized at all. A good example of someone who was saved before being baptized is Cornelius and his household in Acts 10. We know that they were saved before being baptized because they had received the Holy Spirit, which is the evidence of salvation (Romans 8:9; Ephesians 1:13; 1 John 3:24). The evidence of their salvation was the reason Peter allowed them to be baptized. Countless passages of Scripture clearly teach that salvation comes when one believes in the gospel, at which time he or she is sealed “in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Ephesians 1:13).

Thankfully, though, we don’t have to guess at what Peter means in this verse because he clarifies that for us with the phrase “not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience.” While Peter is connecting baptism with salvation, it is not the act of being baptized that he is referring to (not the removal of dirt from the flesh). Being immersed in water does nothing but wash away dirt. What Peter is referring to is what baptism represents, which is what saves us (an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ). In other words, Peter is simply connecting baptism with belief. It is not the getting-wet part that saves but is the “appeal to God for a clean conscience” which is signified by baptism, that saves us. The appeal to God always comes first. First belief and repentance, then we are baptized to publicly identify ourselves with Christ.

An excellent explanation of this passage is given by Dr. Kenneth Wuest, author of Word Studies in the Greek New Testament. “Water baptism is clearly in the apostle's mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The Old Testament sacrifices were counterparts of the reality, the Lord Jesus. They did not actually save the believer, only in type. It is not argued here that these sacrifices are analogous to Christian water baptism. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word 'counterpart.'

"So water baptism only saves the believer in type. The Old Testament Jew was saved before he brought the offering. That offering was only his outward testimony that he was placing faith in the Lamb of God of whom these sacrifices were a type....Water baptism is the outward testimony of the believer's inward faith. The person is saved the moment he places his faith in the Lord Jesus. Water baptism is the visible testimony to his faith and the salvation he was given in answer to that faith. Peter is careful to inform his readers that he is not teaching baptismal regeneration, namely, that a person who submits to baptism is thereby regenerated, for he says, 'not the putting away of the filth of the flesh.' Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh, either in a literal sense as a bath for the body, nor in a metaphorical sense as a cleansing for the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience. But he defines what he means by salvation, in the words 'the answer of a good conscience toward God," and he explains how this is accomplished, namely, 'by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,' in that the believing sinner is identified with Him in that resurrection.”

Part of the confusion on this passage comes from the fact that in many ways the purpose of baptism as a public declaration of one’s faith in Christ and identification with Him has been replaced by “making a decision for Christ” or “praying a sinner’s prayer.” Baptism has been relegated to something that is done later. Yet to Peter or any of the first-century Christians, the idea that a person would confess Christ as his Savior and not be baptized as soon as possible would have been unheard of. Therefore, it is not surprising that Peter would see baptism as almost synonymous with salvation. Yet Peter makes it clear in this verse that it is not the ritual itself that saves, but the fact that we are united with Christ in His resurrection through faith, “the pledge of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 3:21).

Therefore, the baptism that Peter says saves us is the one that is preceded by faith in the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ that justifies the unrighteous sinner (Romans 3:25-26; 4:5). Baptism is the outward sign of what God has done “by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5).
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#69
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even ….BAPTISM doth also NOW save us….. (NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Baptism has NOTHING to do with "taking a bath to cleans the SKIN"........ BUT RATHER...... to cleans us of our sins, putting us in contact with the cleansing blood of Christ.
water is just a symbol. Baptized mean dyed. Dyed in to the water not saved you, if so, I will dive every day. Dyed in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit that saved you. Yes it is symbolized in water. But the real one that saved you, not the symbol. Even if you dive a hundred feet below the sea level, you not save till you dive in the name of Father, Son and Holy spirit


matt 28

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
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#70
It is fundamental. A commandment given by Jesus himself.

Read the gospels. Baptism in water is mentioned often.

Read Romans chapter 6.
 
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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#71
It is fundamental. A commandment given by Jesus himself.

Read the gospels. Baptism in water is mentioned often.

Read Romans chapter 6.
Romans 6
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Baptized in to Christ Jesus will saved you. Water is just a symbol. I know people sleep with prostitute after water baptism.

You can doing water baptism every day, as long as you not baptized in to Christ, not going to do any good
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#72
So is baptism in water necessary? Listen to what the baptist says. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but He that comes after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:Matthew 3:11. Pray for the baptism in the Spirit, that you not end up in the fire.
So you are suggesting that water baptism is unnecessary, by quoting this Scripture, and forgetting the rest of the Scriptures. That is called a half-baked theology. On one hand we see people claiming that water baptism saves, and on the other hand we see people claiming (as here) that water baptism is unnecessary.

But the One (Christ) who baptizes with the Holy Ghost -- thus bringing about the New Birth -- is also the One who commanded believers to be baptized in water by immersion, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. So to dismiss water baptism as unnecessary is to teach new believers to begin their new lives in Christ with DISOBEDIENCE. That is a very serious matter my friend. Peter commanded his first Gentile converts to be baptized after they received the gift of the Holy Ghost, and nothing has changed regarding that commandment.

BTW there is no need to pray for the baptism "in" the Holy Spirit, since every believer receives the gift of the Holy Ghost from God upon conversion (Acts 2:38). Pray rather to walk in the Spirit, and not fulfil the lusts of the flesh. That is the fulness of the Spirit, which results in the fruit of the Spirit.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
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#73
Thank you, Nehemiah.

So you are suggesting that water baptism is unnecessary, by quoting this Scripture, and forgetting the rest of the Scriptures. That is called a half-baked theology. On one hand we see people claiming that water baptism saves, and on the other hand we see people claiming (as here) that water baptism is unnecessary.
No, I was not suggesting that.

Someone else also thought something like that, and I explained myself in my next post.

But the One (Christ) who baptizes with the Holy Ghost -- thus bringing about the New Birth -- is also the One who commanded believers to be baptized in water by immersion, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. So to dismiss water baptism as unnecessary is to teach new believers to begin their new lives in Christ with DISOBEDIENCE. That is a very serious matter my friend. Peter commanded his first Gentile converts to be baptized after they received the gift of the Holy Ghost, and nothing has changed regarding that commandment.
Thank you,
but just because I don't do it after the tradition of men, doesn't mean I don't do it.

But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water:
and the priest shall burn all on the altar,
to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire,
of a sweet savour unto the LORD.

Leviticus 1:9

When one bathes in ordinary water, it doesn't wash their inward parts, does it.
So, with the help of Jesus, I got Him to wash my inwards parts.
He has the water that can do that.

BTW there is no need to pray for the baptism "in" the Holy Spirit, since every believer receives the gift of the Holy Ghost from God upon conversion (Acts 2:38). Pray rather to walk in the Spirit, and not fulfil the lusts of the flesh. That is the fulness of the Spirit, which results in the fruit of the Spirit.
Yes, totally agree,
I have to walk for Jesus, to get His baptism.
I have to follow the Holy Spirit to find the place where God puts His name on me.

Then there shall be a place
which the LORD your God shall choose to cause His name to dwell there;
thither shall ye bring all that I command you;
your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices,
your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand,
and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

And ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God,
ye, and your sons, and your daughters,
and your menservants, and your maidservants,
and the Levite that is within your gates;
forasmuch as He has no part nor inheritance with you.

Deuteronomy 12:11-12

Bless you.
Paul
 
Oct 28, 2017
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#74
Some verses on the baptism of the Lord.

And I will make them and the places round about My hill a blessing;
and I will cause the shower to come down in his season;
there shall be showers of blessing.

Ezekiel 34:26

Turn you at My reproof: behold, I will pour out My spirit unto you,
I will make known My words unto you.

Proverbs 1:23

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house,
and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts,
if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing,
that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Malachi 3:10

That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain,
that thou may gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

Deuteronomy 11:14

Thou visitest the earth, and waterest it:
thou greatly enrichest it with the river of God, which is full of water:
thou preparest them corn, when thou hast so provided for it.

Psalm 65:9

Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain;
so the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.

Zechariah 10:1

Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you;
and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them,
whether they will walk in My law, or no.

Exodus 16:4

Nevertheless He left not Himself without witness, in that He did good,
and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.

Acts 14:17

For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground:
I will pour My spirit upon thy seed, and My blessing upon thine offspring:

Isaiah 44:3

Whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst;
but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 4:14

And He shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal,
proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.


And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.
And let him that hears say, Come.
And let him that is athirst come.
And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:1 & 17

That was interesting.
The more verses I add, the more I can think of.

Bless.
Paul
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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#75
Some verses on the baptism of the Lord.

And I will make them and the places round about My hill a blessing;
and I will cause the shower to come down in his season;
there shall be showers of blessing.

Ezekiel 34:26

Turn you at My reproof: behold, I will pour out My spirit unto you,
I will make known My words unto you.

Proverbs 1:23

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house,
and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts,
if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing,
that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Malachi 3:10

That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain,
that thou may gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

Deuteronomy 11:14

Thou visitest the earth, and waterest it:
thou greatly enrichest it with the river of God, which is full of water:
thou preparest them corn, when thou hast so provided for it.

Psalm 65:9

Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain;
so the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.

Zechariah 10:1

Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you;
and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them,
whether they will walk in My law, or no.

Exodus 16:4

Nevertheless He left not Himself without witness, in that He did good,
and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.

Acts 14:17

For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground:
I will pour My spirit upon thy seed, and My blessing upon thine offspring:

Isaiah 44:3

Whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst;
but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 4:14

And He shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal,
proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.


And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.
And let him that hears say, Come.
And let him that is athirst come.
And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:1 & 17

That was interesting.
The more verses I add, the more I can think of.

Bless.
Paul
Sorry, but this is what I'd call "stretching to try to make a point"..... baptism is NOT implied in every scripture that mentions water in the Word.

There are only a few "comparison" references mentioned in the NT. Otherwise, we'd be hearing about how Jesus "baptized" the apostle's feet when he washed them.... it was specifically stated in scripture that baptism is NOT a "washing", or "cleansing ritual".

when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the [SUP][p][/SUP]water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God [SUP][q][/SUP]for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, [SUP]22 [/SUP]who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
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#76
Thank you Hornetguy.

Sorry, but this is what I'd call "stretching to try to make a point"..... baptism is NOT implied in every scripture that mentions water in the Word.

There are only a few "comparison" references mentioned in the NT. Otherwise, we'd be hearing about how Jesus "baptized" the apostle's feet when he washed them.... it was specifically stated in scripture that baptism is NOT a "washing", or "cleansing ritual".
I see they are all about the water from heaven.
Which is food for our hearts.

The Lord pours it out upon us when we make the feasts of the Lord.
Just testifying how Jesus is for me.

Jesus is the bread from heaven
Paul

[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]I will feed My flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Ezekiel 34:15[/FONT]
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,708
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#77
Thank you Hornetguy.

I see they are all about the water from heaven.
Which is food for our hearts.

The Lord pours it out upon us when we make the feasts of the Lord.
Just testifying how Jesus is for me.

Jesus is the bread from heaven
Paul

I will feed My flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 34:15
Yes, your observations are well taken....
 
Jul 23, 2017
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#78
here is the mistake:

some say water is just getting wet.

but when water baptism is mixed with faith there is more to it. its over simplified. thats almost the same as saying faith just means believing something exists and nothing more. empty definition
 

plaintalk

Senior Member
Jul 20, 2015
445
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#79
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP]teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (Matt. 28: 18- 20)

When discussing any practice we need to know who authorized the practice, to whom is it given and for what purpose.

(1) Baptism in water in the name of the Father, Son and Spirit was authorized by our Lord shortly before His ascension into heaven. A few days later it began to be fulfilled at Pentecost, Acts 2.

(2) Baptism in water in the name of Christ is for all nations. Everyone who received the word was baptized. (Acts 2: 41)

(3) One of the purposes was to make disciples. When that was posted on another thread, mailmandan assured me that I completely wrong, he maintained that disciples are made through faith alone. In John 2: 22- 25 and john 12: 42, 43 we find the record of certain Jews who believed but Jesus did consider them to be good prospects because He knows the heart of man and because they did not confess Him before men as they loved the approval of men more than the approval of God. Faith without obedience, motivated by love, is not sufficient. When our faith in God leads us to repent and be baptized in His name, we are considered to be disciples. Of course we are taught to observe all things commanded.

Is it necessary to be a disciple? Is it necessary to follow Him? (Matt. 16: 24)
Luke 14: 27- whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple
Luke 14: 33- no one of you can be my disciple who does not give up his own possessions.
John 2: 11- and His disciples believed in Him
John 4: 1 Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John
John 8: 31- if you abide in My word then truly you are disciples of mine
John 13: 35- by this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
John 15: 8- by this is My father glorified that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.

God bless.
 
Oct 28, 2017
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#80
What I see, Snoozy.
here is the mistake:

some say water is just getting wet.

but when water baptism is mixed with faith there is more to it. its over simplified. thats almost the same as saying faith just means believing something exists and nothing more. empty definition
Your faith is the stuff.

It's not God's word anymore. Not what He says that matters.
His eternal word is redundant, old covenant, like an old worn out hat.

It is your faith that saved you,
and now it is your faith that turns water into wine.

Who needs God's words when they have faith like that. Right?
When they have a faith that is as strong as yours.

What ever happened to faith in God's word?
Whatever happened to trusting in what He says?
Paul

Therefore shall ye lay up these My words in your heart and in your soul,
and bind them for a sign upon your hand,
that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

Deuteronomy 11:18

My son, keep My words,
and lay up My commandments with thee.

Proverbs 7:1

If a man love Me, he will keep My words:
and My Father will love him,
and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him.

John 14:23