Baptism and holy spirit

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CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#701
May 23, 2012
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#701
notuptome said:
1 Cor 14:14-15 You are confusing yourself here in this passage. I know you want it to say that praying in the Holy Spirit is praying in tongues but that is not what is written in the passage. Paul clearly says that if he prays in an unknown tongue his spirit prays. Pauls spirit is not the Holy Spirit. When you dissect the passage it becomes clear that Paul is not advocating praying in tongues.

So I guess that you have never prayed with such intensity that you could not express what was in your heart?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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wrong
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#702
May 23, 2012
13,111
4,374
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#702
Stunnedbygrace said:
I don't think EG was saying willing persons won't be used by the Spirit in the gifts of the Holy Spirit...and I don't think he's done any forbidding of speaking in tongues...
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Stunnedbygrace said:
I'm not understanding at all how the above post comes across as confrontational and self-indulgent...
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maybe if you had the full context of our discussion you would see that. But any rate. EG knows
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#703
May 14, 2010
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#703
NoNameMcgee said:
how can anyone read this and not understand it?


if youre going to pretend every member of the body controls which gifts they recieve
then you shouldnt be here

you should be out healing the sick and those dying



we recieve the gifts are given to us


to some one gift

to another member of the body
another gift
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1 Co 12 is about our needing one another. It's not disqualifying people from higher gifts. Paul concludes this, by saying earnestly desire the higher spiritual gifts. The focus of this is that we understand that is the Lord who is behind it all. People take these Scriptures and say well I don't do it, so God must not have it for me. But these Scriptures are an invitation for us. Not a disqualification. But this must be done from a place of both pursuing love and earnestly desiring gifts.

It's similar to saying, are all mechanics, are all lawyers? No, they are not, but it's merely a focus and a passion. Not that all can't do it. Why would Paul says desire something that God won't give us? He doesn't ever say, well sorry, if you don't have it... suck it up. But that's what some people can take these Scriptures to mean. And they don't. Their focus is there is ONE Lord and many manifestations and gifts of Him.
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#704
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
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#704
notuptome said:
1 Cor 14:14-15 You are confusing yourself here in this passage. I know you want it to say that praying in the Holy Spirit is praying in tongues but that is not what is written in the passage. Paul clearly says that if he prays in an unknown tongue his spirit prays. Pauls spirit is not the Holy Spirit. When you dissect the passage it becomes clear that Paul is not advocating praying in tongues.

So I guess that you have never prayed with such intensity that you could not express what was in your heart?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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It is praying in tongues. Read through the ENTIRE chapter. And look at this verse in context. Paul is explaining pursuing love and spiritual gifts. Praying in tongues is through the Spirit. Not through the mind. This is why Paul says he will pray with both his spirit and his mind.

You say, "Paul's spirit is not the Holy Spirit." But that's only half-true.

1 Co 6:17 But the one being joined to the Lord is one spirit.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#705
#705
Cee said:
1 Co 12 is about our needing one another. It's not disqualifying people from higher gifts. Paul concludes this, by saying earnestly desire the higher spiritual gifts. The focus of this is that we understand that is the Lord who is behind it all. People take these Scriptures and say well I don't do it, so God must not have it for me. But these Scriptures are an invitation for us. Not a disqualification. But this must be done from a place of both pursuing love and earnestly desiring gifts.

It's similar to saying, are all mechanics, are all lawyers? No, they are not, but it's merely a focus and a passion. Not that all can't do it. Why would Paul says desire something that God won't give us? He doesn't ever say, well sorry, if you don't have it... suck it up. But that's what some people can take these Scriptures to mean. And they don't. Their focus is there is ONE Lord and many manifestations and gifts of Him.
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the problem is when people pretend someone is not as far in their walk with Christ simply because they do not have a specific gift

you cannot choose

oh right now i have healing

let me heal my neice of her many disabilities


ive tried

but lets say YOU could heal my neice

that doesnt make you any more a member of the body than i am


im not saying its impossible for God to use me to heal

or for Him to just heal from a distance without the use of any of us brothers and sisters


what im saying is to those who falsely accuse others without the gift you have of being any less "a member of the body"


they are in error

one may not have the wisdom or faith that i have


but maybe they are far more humble and meek and patient

that doesnt mean either of us are less than the other

and that doesnt garuntee they will ever be as wise as me

or i will ever be as patient as them
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#706
#706
NoNameMcgee said:
the problem is when people pretend someone is not as far in their walk with Christ simply because they do not have a specific gift

you cannot choose

oh right now i have healing

let me heal my neice of her many disabilities


ive tried

but lets say YOU could heal my neice

that doesnt make you any more a member of the body than i am


im not saying its impossible for God to use me to heal

or for Him to just heal from a distance without the use of any of us brothers and sisters


what im saying is to those who falsely accuse others without the gift you have of being any less "a member of the body"


they are in error

one may not have the wisdom or faith that i have


but maybe they are far more humble and meek and patient

that doesnt mean either of us are less than the other

and that doesnt garuntee they will ever be as wise as me

or i will ever be as patient as them
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: Disclaimer : Nonamemcgee isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.... this was just an example.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#707
Nov 12, 2015
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#707
CS1 said:
maybe if you had the full context of our discussion you would see that. But any rate. EG knows
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I've read the whole thread and think I do have the context of the discussion. I didn't see any confrontational attitude or self-indulgence in the post you accused him of having or doing those things. But I'll let it drop.
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#709
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#709
eternally-gratefull said:
So you think I am not willing?

Thats judgmental is it not?
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EG,

Before I comment on the quote I think I need to say "Wow! It got 'lively' in here!"

Ok.... Now that that has been stated... I'm not all worked up and have learned that accusations don't get much done...so my comment on the quote is more for clarification.

My current understanding is that you think the spiritual gifts/manifestations are NOT for this time (including speaking in tongues). In other words you believe this is the wrong time for the gifts. Is that correct?

If that is your current belief, it seems logical to suggest you are not "willing" to be used in them during that same 'wrong' time.

Please forgive me if I misunderstood your beliefs about the gifts in this time.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#710
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#710
I'm pretty sure I can say he believes none of what you just said. I've known him for about...5 years, and I'm pretty sure no.
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#712
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#712
KelbyofGod said:
Quite possible. I sometimes forget who believes what. :)
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It's just that any time we believe any item to be wrong...we're not likely going to be coveting to have/do it. Some things won't manifest unless we're really going after it. Mark 9:29
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#713
Nov 12, 2015
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#713
KelbyofGod said:
It's just that any time we believe any item to be wrong...we're not likely going to be coveting to have/do it. Some things won't manifest unless we're really going after it. Mark 9:29
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If you go back and read, I don't believe he has said he thinks gifts have ceased or that they are wrong. The thrust of his discussion has been that the Holy Spirit will manifest as He wills to manifest and that if He doesn't give to a brother to speak in tongues, then the brother should not be made to feel he is doing something wrong or doesn't desire the things of God, or is unsaved, or is missing out on something and it's his fault, etc.
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#714
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#714
Stunnedbygrace said:
If you go back and read, I don't believe he has said he thinks gifts have ceased or that they are wrong. The thrust of his discussion has been that the Holy Spirit will manifest as He wills to manifest and that if He doesn't give to a brother to speak in tongues, then the brother should not be made to feel he is doing something wrong or doesn't desire the things of God, or is unsaved, or is missing out on something and it's his fault, etc.
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Yeah that's more what I was getting as I was reading through.
 
S

shrume

Senior Member
#715
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
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#715
Stunnedbygrace said:
If you go back and read, I don't believe he has said he thinks gifts have ceased or that they are wrong. The thrust of his discussion has been that the Holy Spirit will manifest as He wills to manifest and that if He doesn't give to a brother to speak in tongues, then the brother should not be made to feel he is doing something wrong or doesn't desire the things of God, or is unsaved, or is missing out on something and it's his fault, etc.
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What some of us have been trying to get people to see is that God does want every Christian to manifest the gift of Holy Spirit that He has given to them. Speaking in tongues is something any Christian can choose to do any time he wants to. The gift of the Holy Spirit is what enables you to do it. Doing it is up to you. It's not something God "uses you" for. I'll go back to what I said early in this thread: Most people do not understand what speaking in tongues is. Most think "well, if God wanted me to do it, He would cause me to do it." It does not work that way. You have the ability through the gift of the Holy Spirit, it's up to each Christian to manifest that gift by doing it. If you're waiting for God to move your mouth, it won't happen.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#716
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#716
Waggles said:
Praying in tongues is worshipping our Lord Jesus
in fact without tongues, without the indwelling Holy Spirit, scriptures declares that you cannot even call Jesus Lord.
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You are, and have been for quite some time, stating things that go against the essential core of our faith, waggles.

The essential core of our faith, and the gospel, is: repent and believe on Jesus and you will be saved and will receive the Holy Spirit.

You are trying to throw speaking in tongues in there as salvational.

I'm not saying they will kick you out for it. They allow a lot of leeway here, and thank goodness, because if they kicked out everyone who was in some error, everyone would be gone except the crickets, including all of the mods AND roboOp! No one has perfect knowledge.

But you have wandered into the territory of going against the core of our faith and into the territory of preaching another gospel. I would think about it if I were you and tread carefully regarding your continuing avowal that any man who hasn't spoken in tongues is headed for hell and isn't saved.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#717
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#717
shrume said:
What some of us have been trying to get people to see is that God does want every Christian to manifest the gift of Holy Spirit that He has given to them. Speaking in tongues is something any Christian can choose to do any time he wants to. The gift of the Holy Spirit is what enables you to do it. Doing it is up to you. It's not something God "uses you" for. I'll go back to what I said early in this thread: Most people do not understand what speaking in tongues is. Most think "well, if God wanted me to do it, He would cause me to do it." It does not work that way. You have the ability through the gift of the Holy Spirit, it's up to each Christian to manifest that gift by doing it. If you're waiting for God to move your mouth, it won't happen.
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And what some of us have been trying to get across to you is that we don't believe as you do and think that when the apostle asked: do all speak in tongues? that the answer is: no.
 
S

shrume

Senior Member
#718
Jun 26, 2017
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#718
Stunnedbygrace said:
And what some of us have been trying to get across to you is that we don't believe as you do and think that when the apostle asked: do all speak in tongues? that the answer is: no.
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I guess not much more can be said. I have been unable to convince you that God wants all Christians to speak in tongues, and you cannot convince me that He doesn't.

Want to talk about something else? :)
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#719
Nov 12, 2015
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#719
The apostle speaks of and compares each of us to a different part of the human body.
He asks, is everyone a hand? Can everyone be an eye? (my paraphrase).
Then he uses the same type of questioning when he asks, do all speak in tongues? Do all prophecy?

He is comparing different parts of a human body to different gifts/manifestations.

I do not think it is good to insist everyone must be a tongue.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#720
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#720
shrume said:
What some of us have been trying to get people to see is that God does want every Christian to manifest the gift of Holy Spirit that He has given to them.
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Everyone agrees on this part, at least.
 
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