The cultic origins of Annihilationism

Would you say this is a recent development? And that for the first 15 pages I was actually thinking? I do tend to get silly when thought has ceased and tennis begins.

I mean, if its as vital as you believe it to be then shouldn't your aim be to change my mind, for the sake of the lost? I would think it would almost be a responsibility, haha.

By being raised to life again...

Yes, Nehemiah. Everybody knows that is your belief.

If he was not saved, he will be burned up in the Lake of fire.

The plain Bible truth appears to be the issue here. You claim the plain Bible truth is that the unsaved will burn in the lake of fire forever, experiencing conscious torments forever, at the hand of God, who is love, and is just. I believe the plain Bible truth is that the wicked will be destroyed, including even the devil himself, and I have provided many scripture backing up my belief.

Now you can shout from your pedestal that what you believe is the truth and anyone who does not agree with you is an heretic, but it won't do any good. It just makes you a rather disagreeable fellow to deal with. You do not have a prayer of a chance that I will change my mind. I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt from the scriptures that death means death, and the wages of sin is death. I'm also convinced that one day you'll understand things that way too, even if it does not happen in this life.

Unless this forum makes believing in annihilation a bannable offense, I will continue to profess what I believe, and why, to anyone who wants to discuss it.

You think it is my responsibility to repeat myself to you over and over again...?

Yep. I'm trying to change everyone's mind on this topic.

I realize I won't be successful, but I can try.

The doctrine of the "immortal soul", which is really the root of the differences, is deeply embedded in much of Christianity.

I went through 25 posting and 8 tabs and this is the first comment were you used what I think is an incomplte verse or chapter rev 20.

excuse me and thank you I was looking to use 1 pet 2:24

I think I might try ben. I'll start here. I'll limit my posts ONLY to replies to you.

God made everything to bring forth of its own kind, including adam and eve. Adam and eve died on the day they ate the fruit. But wait a minute...they didn't die on the day they ate of the fruit, so what am I missing? On the day you eat of it, you will surely die. Yet not only did they not die on that day, they lived hundreds and hundreds of years longer. Explain, ben.

where is the biblical ref ?

Yes, when Jesus died, he was dead. He was no longer alive.

No, nekros does not mean "the spiritual condition of unsaved men". It means dead.

He will be raised from the dead. He is currently dead, he will be raised from the dead. When that happens, he will no longer be dead, and he will give account of himself. If he is judged guilty, he will be sentenced to the second death, which will be permanent, with no chance of ever being alive again. He will be gone.

No, it does not. Christ was literally, actually dead until the Father raised him.

Jesus literally died, and was dead for three days and three nights.

After three days and three nights, the Father literally raised Jesus from the dead.

Yes, he did.

Absolutely.

Yes, he is.

So explain again how believing in annihilation speaks against the literal resurrected body of Christ.

"but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

Not meaning that they would die that very day physically, but that there right state with God would change to a state of separation. They eventually did die hundreds of years later and according to other scriptures their spirits would have departed at the time of death, conscious and aware.

As I have told you before and which is supported by scripture, life and death are both states of conscious existence. Life being on-going existence in the presence of the Lord and death being on-going existence in separation from the Lord in the lake of fire. Death neither means unconsciousness nor non-existence, but is defined by ones state of being in relation to God. For those in Christ, their state with God is life. For those who are not in Christ, their state is death, which again is not annihilation or extinction, but they are unreconciled and therefore separated from God.

I will so you answered all that and yet the state of hell torment is not forever ?
because annihilationism is not biblical . And it was not founded on biblical truth. Hell is an eternal place and those who go there do so forever as the word of God says in Mark 9: 43,45 Rev 20:13-14 2 pet 2:4 this is consistant with what Jesus taught. and annihilationism is not. it is Allegorizing of scriptures, it is not proper exegesis. And it is biblical error. there you go .

I thought you said you were ignoring me because of my lack of being able to reason.

Satan said: You shall not surely die but scripture makes clear who was telling the truth - Wherefore, as by one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. Death, both spiritual and physical, was the result of man's believing Satan's lie. . . .

life and death are both states of conscious existence . . . For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. . . . Whatsoever your had finds to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave, where you go. . . . life being on-going existence in the presence of the Lord . . . same lie the devil told "you shall not surely die". And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. (Heb. 9:27)

The second death will be permanent. Eternal conscious torments is not true.

I believe it is completely biblical. The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23).

I believe that it was, and is.

The Bible says that death and hell will be thrown into the lake of fire, and destroyed (Rev 20:15).

Mark 9:
43) And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
45) And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

The fire will not be able to be quenched until it's done doing its job, which is to burn things up.

Rev 20:
13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

There is no indication in those verses that the unsaved will be tormented in a conscious state forever.

2 Pet 2:
4) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

This verse is speaking of angels that sinned and were thrown into Tartarus. It has literally nothing to do with people.

Jesus taught that the chaff would be burnt up, or carried away. He did not teach eternal torments.

As SGB noted above, claiming death is not really death is allegorizing.

The doctrine of the "immortal soul", and that the unsaved will be tormented forever is both of those things.

Indeed....

Ben's not here so I'll talk with you.
Can you explain the ramifications of that spiritual death?
I think I understand the physical death part. His body began to age and die and the fruit of the tree of life was withheld so that he would not be able to eat and therefore physically live forever in his state.

But it's the spiritual death I would like to hear explained. Did he have some spirit apart from Gods' Spirit, the Eternal Spirit, in him, and then it died? Or did God stop indwelling him with His eternal Spirit?

Do you mean eternal conscious torment will not be for humans or do you mean also not for the unholy trinity?

I do not believe anyone or any thing will be in eternal conscious torments.

Even the devil himself will eventually be burned up, and be gone:

Eze 28:
18) Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19) All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Private: SBG, I got both of your PMs and replied to both of them. Are you seeing the responses?