Not By Works
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I understand what you are saying, but for our purposes we all believe that Jesus was raised from the dead.
So our confession would include that. Thank you.
The problem is some do not believe that confession is part of the salvation process, even though Romans 10:9-10 clearly state that it is. TT believes that confession is a work and is therefore not part of the salvation process, but is done after one is saved, contrary to what Paul said in Romans 10:9-10.
So what do you say?
So our confession would include that. Thank you.
The problem is some do not believe that confession is part of the salvation process, even though Romans 10:9-10 clearly state that it is. TT believes that confession is a work and is therefore not part of the salvation process, but is done after one is saved, contrary to what Paul said in Romans 10:9-10.
So what do you say?
If confessing that Jesus....., is considered a work, and I am doing the horrible act of adding works to Gods gift,
And
my belief that confessing that Jesus...., is somehow a strange belief,
you seriously need to talk to a religious psychologist, and have him reset your religious paradigm. Otherwise you will eventually go crazy as people throughout Christendom present their strange, straight-out-of-the bible beliefs to you. You will go crazy because of your myopic view of bible scripture and bible doctrines.
Oh, and BTW, in order for you to make your statement, you have to subtract words from the Holy Bible, so good luck with that.
I am pretty much done with this little segment of this thread. I tried to go simple and straight-forward and ran right into a buzzsaw, so enough is enough. You may have the last word on Romans 10:9-10, but I have said all I am going to say. Thank you.
And
my belief that confessing that Jesus...., is somehow a strange belief,
you seriously need to talk to a religious psychologist, and have him reset your religious paradigm. Otherwise you will eventually go crazy as people throughout Christendom present their strange, straight-out-of-the bible beliefs to you. You will go crazy because of your myopic view of bible scripture and bible doctrines.
Oh, and BTW, in order for you to make your statement, you have to subtract words from the Holy Bible, so good luck with that.
I am pretty much done with this little segment of this thread. I tried to go simple and straight-forward and ran right into a buzzsaw, so enough is enough. You may have the last word on Romans 10:9-10, but I have said all I am going to say. Thank you.
What do I say?
I would say that salvation occured when
Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
So Paul says when we confess the above and believe in our hearts this leads to salvation, we will be saved.
With regards to work
John 6:29
29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.” (NLT)
John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” (NKJV)
The above rendered differently.
One says it's the work of God, the other is the only work he wants is to believe in Jesus.
Either way the result is the same. Belief in Jesus.
So for me the confession that Pauk talks about and Jesus says is not part of the salvation process it's the start of salvation.
Maybe there is some misunderstanding concerning "Salvation process"
We cannot be initially saved without a genuine confession and belief.
So I'm talking about confessing unbelief in Jesus.
That is a sin which is why Jesus had to go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come, yet he only mentions the sin of unbelief.
John 16:8-11
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
So the Holy Spirit convicts in the first instance unbelief.
Not sure if the righteousness mentioned in the above verses relate to that in Romans.
So is confession a work after our initial confession that results in our salvation.
I would say yes and no.
The reason I say yes is actually tongue in cheek.
There have been many times where God has had to keep proding me to confess my sin.
Mainly when I carry unforgivness in my heart against others. And infact he has taken it deeper. Like when someone has cut me up on the road and I call them a nasty name.
But overall to me confession should not be a work but a natural process as a result of loving relationship, between us and God and us and those we have offended.
Confession is about relationship.
So taking my tongue out of my cheek confession is not a work.
I would add a caveat though.
Many belivers find it difficult to come before God because they are sin conscious and as a result they are expecting a beating. Their guilt stops them.
I would say that salvation occured when
Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
So Paul says when we confess the above and believe in our hearts this leads to salvation, we will be saved.
With regards to work
John 6:29
29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.” (NLT)
John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” (NKJV)
The above rendered differently.
One says it's the work of God, the other is the only work he wants is to believe in Jesus.
Either way the result is the same. Belief in Jesus.
So for me the confession that Pauk talks about and Jesus says is not part of the salvation process it's the start of salvation.
Maybe there is some misunderstanding concerning "Salvation process"
We cannot be initially saved without a genuine confession and belief.
So I'm talking about confessing unbelief in Jesus.
That is a sin which is why Jesus had to go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come, yet he only mentions the sin of unbelief.
John 16:8-11
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
So the Holy Spirit convicts in the first instance unbelief.
Not sure if the righteousness mentioned in the above verses relate to that in Romans.
So is confession a work after our initial confession that results in our salvation.
I would say yes and no.
The reason I say yes is actually tongue in cheek.
There have been many times where God has had to keep proding me to confess my sin.
Mainly when I carry unforgivness in my heart against others. And infact he has taken it deeper. Like when someone has cut me up on the road and I call them a nasty name.
But overall to me confession should not be a work but a natural process as a result of loving relationship, between us and God and us and those we have offended.
Confession is about relationship.
So taking my tongue out of my cheek confession is not a work.
I would add a caveat though.
Many belivers find it difficult to come before God because they are sin conscious and as a result they are expecting a beating. Their guilt stops them.
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NoNameMcGee is challenging your assumption as he perceives it that someone has to physically confess in order to be saved.
If that is the case then I stand with him.
If a person who is not a believer had throat cancer and as a result has their voice box removed, but then becomes a believer they cannot confess physically with their mouth because no words will come out of their mouth.
If that is the case then I stand with him.
If a person who is not a believer had throat cancer and as a result has their voice box removed, but then becomes a believer they cannot confess physically with their mouth because no words will come out of their mouth.
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You forgot to add and, "you can lose" your eternal salvation and that salvation is by works. Eternal Life is a free gift and no one can snatch us out of His hands. Your fake gospel leads you to fear of losing your salvation and never knowing if I am in or out of salvation.
Yes it is a horrible insecure gospel that you promote.
Yes it is a horrible insecure gospel that you promote.
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N
wait a second
does ben think paul is lying?
or does he believe God forgot to whisper in pauls ear that being fully dipped in water is also needed according to bens beliefs?
as well as the fact by bens belief one has to choose to continue to believe after these works are done in order to remain saved.....
can you say someone "will" be saved if it is dependant on their actions following?
if you say someone will be saved (from a just punishment) if they do x y and z
then you can know you are saved (from a just punishment)
but then you have to suffer that just punishment
....
uhhhh
when were you saved?
does ben think paul is lying?
or does he believe God forgot to whisper in pauls ear that being fully dipped in water is also needed according to bens beliefs?
as well as the fact by bens belief one has to choose to continue to believe after these works are done in order to remain saved.....
can you say someone "will" be saved if it is dependant on their actions following?
if you say someone will be saved (from a just punishment) if they do x y and z
then you can know you are saved (from a just punishment)
but then you have to suffer that just punishment
....
uhhhh
when were you saved?
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T
I feel like I'm talking to the wall.
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NOW WHERE ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH DID YOU GET THAT GOD-Whispered theology FROM, the MORMONS?
2 Timothy 3:16 (NKJV)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
NOT THERE.
2 Peter 1:20-21 (NKJV)
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God
spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Now there it said they spoke, and then apparently WROTE IT DOWN.
2 Timothy 3:16 (NKJV)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
NOT THERE.
2 Peter 1:20-21 (NKJV)
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God
spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Now there it said they spoke, and then apparently WROTE IT DOWN.
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