regenerated

So, the natural man that does not have the Spirit dwelling within him, and can not discern anything that is of a spiritual nature, says Oh, I think that I will decide to believe all of these spiritual things that the gospel is talking about, because I can discern spiritual things, I don't care what the apostle Paul says about me not being able to discern spiritual things. Paul is telling lies about me, and SHRUME, you should not believe anything that that lying Paul says. Does that fit the way you are thinking?

There are scriptures that I have given to you that you are completely ignoring.

The natural man can hear the gospel and choose to believe it.

I do not believe you even examine the scriptures that I give you, you just come out with a statement, with no scripture back up, which is totally in contrast to the scripture I give you. It seems that you are believing what some other man has told you as truth, without checking the scriptures to see if it is true. All scriptures must compliment each other and not contradict each other. It seems to be kind of like a puzzle to you. You pick up a piece that looks like it will fit, it has all the right ears and all the right colors but it want quit fit unless you force one of the tight ears in with your finger. When you do that, you will never be able to finish the whole pitcher and never see the beauty of the puzzle. What is your refusal to back up your statements up with scriptures?

The natural man can hear the gospel and choose to believe it.

What is the difference in regenerated and converted?

Forest, I have given you plenty of scriptures. You "explain" them by saying things about them the Bible does not say. You claim the jailer in Acts 16 was saved before he asked Paul what he needed to do to become saved. You claim 2 Pet 3:9 is for people who are already saved. Same with 1 Tim 2:4; Rom 10:9; and Eph 1:13. You aren't reading them for what they say, you're reading into them in order to match what you believe. You're blinded by Calvinism.

Shrume, I was in the same situation that you are, not being able to harmonize the scriptures.

Shrume, I was in the same situation that you are, not being able to harmonize the scriptures. I would read scripture that said we are saved by grace and that not of ourselves, and then I would read a scripture that says, save yourselves from this untoward generation. Sounded like they were contradicting one another until I gave up on my intellect to understand the deference in the two different words of saved and save. Then, it is my belief, that the Holy Spirit within me, after I denied myself revealed some understanding to me. Salvation in the Greek definition means "delivered". We are delivered from troubles that we have here on this earth, such as, When we pray to God that he would deliver us from an illness that we have, and God delivers us from that illness. That is a salvation we experience while we live our lives here on earth. And God delivers us from this sinful world to a home in heaven by his sovereign grace. That is eternal salvation( deliverance ). Unless you are able to understand the difference in the two different salvation you can never get the scriptures to harmonize.

I believe that those are electrical terms but really don't know the difference.

I am not in that situation, Forest. The rest of your post is irrelevant.

I do understand about God's people not being able to understand the finished work of Christ on the cross, because I was in the same situation of a lack of knowledge until I was 62 years old.

I think the turning point in God's children that are believing that their own actions ( works ) can save them eternally is when they give up on their dependence of their smartness to figure the scriptures out. Christ did not try to save people, he did save everyone that he died for without the loss of even one. ( John 6:39 ).

I'm sorry it took you so long. But unfortunately, if you still believe people are saved before they come to believe on Christ, you do not understand the gospel.


Christ came to save anyone who will choose to believe on him, something anyone is free to do.

Not the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14, who cannot discern spiritual things, God is a Spirit.

'regenerate' = begin anew', which is impossible without being 'called-chosen-elected'...

come on you people, who only want to 'argue-debate-try and 'prove' that you only are right!!!

it would seem that you are 'blind/decieved', without 'Godly morals', to live in your own minds, in control
of your own distorted reality'...

can you even 'hear' this message???

'regenerate' = begin anew', which is impossible without being 'called-chosen-elected'...

I think you better look up the definition of sovereign. You must have something to base your belief on. You make so many statements that are not backed up by scripture. It seems that you have listened to what some man has taught you, without even considering scripture proof.

Forest, I have given you plenty of scriptures. You "explain" them by saying things about them the Bible does not say. You claim the jailer in Acts 16 was saved before he asked Paul what he needed to do to become saved. You claim 2 Pet 3:9 is for people who are already saved. Same with 1 Tim 2:4; Rom 10:9; and Eph 1:13. You aren't reading them for what they say, you're reading into them in order to match what you believe. You're blinded by Calvinism.

here again is the scripture you asked for and which I kindly posted

you totally ignored it, again, because it does not fit with what you believe

there is not way to have either an intelligent conversation when someone plays that way and certainly not an honest conversation so others can mess with you if they feel so inclined

so here is the scripture:

2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time,gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Paul is writing to the Ephesian believers and reminding them of how they used to live. where in this portion of scripture do you see anything whatsoever about God giving His Spirit to someone who was dead in their sins? there is nothing there that says anything even close to that

by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast” (Eph 2:8-9)

salvation is the gift of God. we do not work for salvation. it is God's gift

notice we are SAVED THROUGH FAITH...that is, we put our faith in Christ...THEN we are saved and then we receive the Holy Spirit. you have it backwards. no scripture states we receive the Holy Spirit to make us believe. you cannot find that scripture because it does not exist

the Calvinist viewpoint is that only the ones God chooses are saved and that confuses people and may have confused you

here is what John the Apostle writes about that:

2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. I John 2:2

and some people go the other way and say that means that the entire world will be saved which is also wrong

this is what Jesus Himself says in chapter 3 of John

14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness,so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned,but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

when Jesus talks about being lifted up, He means the cross upon which He died. what does He say? Jesus says EVERYONE...EVERYONE...anyone who wants to...may have eternal life IN Him. this means we have a choice as v. 16 goes on to say

Jesus does NOT say only the ones predestined and He does not say everyone in the world will believe. He DOES say everyone who does believe is accepted

read the opening chapters of the book of Acts. that is when the Holy Spirit fell upon the believers. note: THE DISCIPLES WERE ALREADY BELIEVERS AND WERE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS. so how did they believe if God had not yet sent the Holy Spirit to indwell us who believe? some may see this as a two fold act as Jesus had breathed on the disciples and said 'receive the Holy Spirit' but how do you explain the fact that they were told to wait in Jerusalem to receive the Holy Spirit ? how could they already believe in Jesus without being filled?

there is no evidence that God forces people to believe in Him. rather, as we read in the Psalms, EVERYTHING God has created reveals Him to humankind.

from my posts 121