Not By Works

Interesting.


I had never heard of OSAS before I started on Christian Forums.

Preterism is another one.
I just don’t see how a born again Spirit filled Christian could read a scripture like 2 John 9, or Romans 2:5-8 of John 5:28-29 or Hebrews 3:12-14 and 1 Timothy 4:1 and believe in OSAS.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

JPT

you are phrasing his words as " keep the 10 commands and love one another ".

he did NOT say this. so, stop saying he did, or get branded a liar.

OSAS cannot pass the smell test of G-d's intent and is purely self serving to those who want to resolve guilt of scriptural violations...yet grant freedom to live as they wish.

A liar is someone who makes up a lie about what someone said, and then proceeds to argue against that person as if that person said it.


So lets see who the liar is.


Please point out where I said the phrase you claim "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Please go ahead and copy and paste from my post where I said this phrase: "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


If you can not then you sir are a liar.


Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21

• “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT

let's take this from the top. you quoted 1st John 2 for command keeping. I pointed out that in the same letter, chapter 3, John stated that the commands are believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

so, you as you did here, attach all this meaning to what John said , which he did not say.

John's words - believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

all other stuff you said is NOT THERE. John did NOT say these things.

so, by you adding all this meanings , that is deceit.

Wouldn't the idea of obedience to secure our salvation come with a "status-quo" or a type of "level of expectancy" or something of the likes?

Let's have you copy and paste where I said, as you have claimed I said -

"keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Otherwise you are a liar, and nothing you say can be trusted.


Either copy and paste where I said - "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Or repent.

Then we can move on to discuss scripture.





Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21

• “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT

let's take this from the top. you quoted 1st John 2 for command keeping. I pointed out that in the same letter, chapter 3, John stated that the commands are believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

so, you as you did here, attach all this meaning to what John said , which he did not say.

John's words - believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

all other stuff you said is NOT THERE. John did NOT say these things.

so, by you adding all this meanings , that is deceit.

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

How can I purify myself? How was Jesus considered pure? Does a man "purify himself" by rejecting God's instructions like the Pharisees did, or by following God's instructions like Zechariahs did?

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Do you believe this "law" is the Law of God, or some other Law?

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

How was Jesus considered righteous? Did He have His own Righteousness, or did He submit to His Fathers Righteousness?

11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

You can't get much earlier than the story about Cain and Abel. So that which we have heard from the beginning is the message we should receive, Yes?

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

So then we should be able to find this Commandment in the beginning.

Lev. 19:
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

There it is, in the beginning Just as John said. And who gave us this "Commandment"? Was it not the Word which became Flesh? So if I believe in the Jesus of the Bible, the Word which became Flesh, then I will believe His Words when He commanded, as the Word, to Love one another.

So then let me ask you, Do we reject His other Commands? If this the only Commandment Jesus gave? Or is it also a sin to transgress His other Commandments as well.

It seems that JPT is following "ALL" of the Christ's instructions given through John here.

Your accusation "all other stuff you said is NOT THERE. John did NOT say these things."

I think John is saying the Same thing Jesus said as the Word.

Duet. 10:
12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

Just remember, modern day “church” is not what jesus had in mind, churxh is a body of epople sharing each others lives, decoting themselves to fellowship, breaking if bread prayer, and doctrine. Hearing a message or reading a message does not replace church, because church is not all about the message, its about being together, and not being alone, an army united can help each other, a soldier home alone will be attacked and have no help,

I repent of nothing I have said here. I quoted exactly what John said in his letter.

all the stuff you wrote other than that is not in that letter.

sorry you do not like that John did not say keep the 10 commands and love one another.

by what you wrote, you are inserting them into John's letter. which he did not say.

you sir are a deceiver and a liar. you have no right to put words in John's mouth.

sorry you do not like that John did not say keep the 10 commands and love one another.

b...,

EL....?.......eternal life?

John 10:26-28 (HCSB)
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.


2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses.
You are saved by grace!


Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.


Philippians 1:5-6 (HCSB)
5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now.
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you
will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.


1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Let's have you copy and paste where I said, as you have claimed I said -

"keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Otherwise you are a liar, and nothing you say can be trusted.


Either copy and paste where I said - "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Or repent.


By bearing false witness against me, you are not demonstrating love toward me.


4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


Keeping His commandments is about love.


Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

• We love God, by obeying the commandment to love our neighbor.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21

• “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT

once again, I repent of nothing I have said here. John says nothing of the things you post about commandments.

i'll go with John. you should not dismiss His words because you do not believe him.

i'll go with John. you should not dismiss His words because you do not believe him.

once again, I repent of nothing I have said here. John says nothing of the things you post about commandments.

i'll go with John. you should not dismiss His words because you do not believe him.