Not By Works

[preston39]

Interesting.


I had never heard of OSAS before I started on Christian Forums.

Preterism is another one.
I just don’t see how a born again Spirit filled Christian could read a scripture like 2 John 9, or Romans 2:5-8 of John 5:28-29 or Hebrews 3:12-14 and 1 Timothy 4:1 and believe in OSAS.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

JPT

j...,
Preterism thoughts are recorded back many moons ago, with genesis as a means of discrediting The Bible...in general....from our study to date.
OSAS cannot pass the smell test of G-d's intent and is purely self serving to those who want to resolve guilt of scriptural violations...yet grant freedom to live as they wish.
It is an insult to any level of intelligence and..........It won't work.

 

[justpassinthrough]

you are phrasing his words as " keep the 10 commands and love one another ".

he did NOT say this. so, stop saying he did, or get branded a liar.

A liar is someone who makes up a lie about what someone said, and then proceeds to argue against that person as if that person said it.


So lets see who the liar is.


Please point out where I said the phrase you claim "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Please go ahead and copy and paste from my post where I said this phrase: "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


If you can not then you sir are a liar.


Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21

• “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

OSAS cannot pass the smell test of G-d's intent and is purely self serving to those who want to resolve guilt of scriptural violations...yet grant freedom to live as they wish.

Yes sir!




JPT

 

[gb9]

A liar is someone who makes up a lie about what someone said, and then proceeds to argue against that person as if that person said it.


So lets see who the liar is.


Please point out where I said the phrase you claim "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Please go ahead and copy and paste from my post where I said this phrase: "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


If you can not then you sir are a liar.


Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21

• “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT

let's take this from the top. you quoted 1st John 2 for command keeping. I pointed out that in the same letter, chapter 3, John stated that the commands are believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

so, you as you did here, attach all this meaning to what John said , which he did not say.

John's words - believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

all other stuff you said is NOT THERE. John did NOT say these things.

so, by you adding all this meanings , that is deceit.

 

[50C1AL0N3]

Wouldn't the idea of obedience to secure our salvation come with a "status-quo" or a type of "level of expectancy" or something of the likes? Being obedient and honoring the commandments of God varies so very much from instant to instant. One could find himself in or out of physical situations that would effect the amount of obedience and to keep relevant commandments.
I personally try to listen to what God says is good to do. But....when I reflect back on the day I see how many, many, things I could have done or not done (both internally and externally) that would of been way more in line with obedience and keeping his commandments, I feel I have failed, and ask him to forgive me and continue to reveal more truth to me.
What I believe to be the trut is that if you really are a child of God that KNOWS He has blessed you with the imputing of the Holy Spirit, then you are unable to lose your salvation. Eternal life is not a conditional gift. That doesn't even make sense to me.
My God isn't standing over me staring down the brim of His nose while smacking a rod on his palm with the inclination He is sternly watching me to make sure I've done my work to make the grade. My God is standing with me wanting to love and be loved in a relationship that is sacred above all other things in existence. Visible and invisible, with an aura of love that says let me show you what I have done, and who I am so you can love and trust me freely out of a pure heart.
Don't let false doctrine lead you from a thankful, humble, loving and pure relationship with the only true and eternal Lord. The father of my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. Do not let anyone fool you that the will and arm of God is weak or short in doing what he desires to accomplish.
If you truly are a child of God then you know the freedom and level of love and humility that can be achieved in obeying God with a joyful heart because he has already saved your soul from the fiery pits of hell, and nothing or no power that exists can change that.
"Oh Heavenly Father, thank you so very much for blessing me with your grace in my filthy chaotic life. I try to do what you say, and I'm sorry that some days I don't pay much attention to you or fear you much at times, but I humbly and respectfully love you...you know I do, so please help me to continue to grow in you as your will is. I love you Lord. Thank you for sending your son to accomplish what I could never ever accomplish. You are super duper awesome my Lord. I LOVE YOU!"

 

[justpassinthrough]

let's take this from the top. you quoted 1st John 2 for command keeping. I pointed out that in the same letter, chapter 3, John stated that the commands are believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

so, you as you did here, attach all this meaning to what John said , which he did not say.

John's words - believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

all other stuff you said is NOT THERE. John did NOT say these things.

so, by you adding all this meanings , that is deceit.

Let's have you copy and paste where I said, as you have claimed I said -

"keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Otherwise you are a liar, and nothing you say can be trusted.


Either copy and paste where I said - "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Or repent.

Then we can move on to discuss scripture.





Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21

• “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

Wouldn't the idea of obedience to secure our salvation come with a "status-quo" or a type of "level of expectancy" or something of the likes?

The only way a person is saved: born again, is to obey the Gospel.



Please carefully read the following scriptures.


8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8


again


22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23




JPT

 

[gb9]

Let's have you copy and paste where I said, as you have claimed I said -

"keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Otherwise you are a liar, and nothing you say can be trusted.


Either copy and paste where I said - "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Or repent.

Then we can move on to discuss scripture.





Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21

• “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT

I repent of nothing I have said here. I quoted exactly what John said in his letter.

all the stuff you wrote other than that is not in that letter.

sorry you do not like that John did not say keep the 10 commands and love one another.

by what you wrote, you are inserting them into John's letter. which he did not say.

you sir are a deceiver and a liar. you have no right to put words in John's mouth.

 

[Studyman]

let's take this from the top. you quoted 1st John 2 for command keeping. I pointed out that in the same letter, chapter 3, John stated that the commands are believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

so, you as you did here, attach all this meaning to what John said , which he did not say.

John's words - believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

all other stuff you said is NOT THERE. John did NOT say these things.

so, by you adding all this meanings , that is deceit.

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

How can I purify myself? How was Jesus considered pure? Does a man "purify himself" by rejecting God's instructions like the Pharisees did, or by following God's instructions like Zechariahs did?

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Do you believe this "law" is the Law of God, or some other Law?

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

How was Jesus considered righteous? Did He have His own Righteousness, or did He submit to His Fathers Righteousness?

11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

You can't get much earlier than the story about Cain and Abel. So that which we have heard from the beginning is the message we should receive, Yes?

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

So then we should be able to find this Commandment in the beginning.

Lev. 19:
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

There it is, in the beginning Just as John said. And who gave us this "Commandment"? Was it not the Word which became Flesh? So if I believe in the Jesus of the Bible, the Word which became Flesh, then I will believe His Words when He commanded, as the Word, to Love one another.

So then let me ask you, Do we reject His other Commands? If this the only Commandment Jesus gave? Or is it also a sin to transgress His other Commandments as well.

It seems that JPT is following "ALL" of the Christ's instructions given through John here.

Your accusation "all other stuff you said is NOT THERE. John did NOT say these things."

I think John is saying the Same thing Jesus said as the Word.

Duet. 10:
12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

 

[gb9]

/

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

How can I purify myself? How was Jesus considered pure? Does a man "purify himself" by rejecting God's instructions like the Pharisees did, or by following God's instructions like Zechariahs did?

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Do you believe this "law" is the Law of God, or some other Law?

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

How was Jesus considered righteous? Did He have His own Righteousness, or did He submit to His Fathers Righteousness?

11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

You can't get much earlier than the story about Cain and Abel. So that which we have heard from the beginning is the message we should receive, Yes?

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

So then we should be able to find this Commandment in the beginning.

Lev. 19:
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

There it is, in the beginning Just as John said. And who gave us this "Commandment"? Was it not the Word which became Flesh? So if I believe in the Jesus of the Bible, the Word which became Flesh, then I will believe His Words when He commanded, as the Word, to Love one another.

So then let me ask you, Do we reject His other Commands? If this the only Commandment Jesus gave? Or is it also a sin to transgress His other Commandments as well.

It seems that JPT is following "ALL" of the Christ's instructions given through John here.

Your accusation "all other stuff you said is NOT THERE. John did NOT say these things."

I think John is saying the Same thing Jesus said as the Word.

Duet. 10:
12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

I am simply quoting a verse out of 1st John.

it sure did trigger you guys. it is almost like you think it can't possibly be true that God the Father expects us to believe in the Son, and love one another.

 

[gb9]

you know, God the Father came down and said of the Son " hear Him ". Jesus said believe in Me for salvation. he also said that " a new command I give you, love one another as I have loved you." He said if He was lifted up, He would draw all men to Him.

it is almost as if John were there, And wrote his Letter from that point of view, that believe in the name of the Son and love one another are the commands.

it is almost you guys do not believe Him.

so, if you want to question John the beloved, well, you have free will.

I will not.

 

[star]

Just remember, modern day “church” is not what jesus had in mind, churxh is a body of epople sharing each others lives, decoting themselves to fellowship, breaking if bread prayer, and doctrine. Hearing a message or reading a message does not replace church, because church is not all about the message, its about being together, and not being alone, an army united can help each other, a soldier home alone will be attacked and have no help,

I understand your point. Just looking for that place of being together where I can feel comfortable and believe I'm with like-minded people.

 

[justpassinthrough]

I repent of nothing I have said here. I quoted exactly what John said in his letter.

all the stuff you wrote other than that is not in that letter.

sorry you do not like that John did not say keep the 10 commands and love one another.

by what you wrote, you are inserting them into John's letter. which he did not say.

you sir are a deceiver and a liar. you have no right to put words in John's mouth.

sorry you do not like that John did not say keep the 10 commands and love one another.

Let's have you copy and paste where I said, as you have claimed I said -

"keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Otherwise you are a liar, and nothing you say can be trusted.


Either copy and paste where I said - "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Or repent.


By bearing false witness against me, you are not demonstrating love toward me.


4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


Keeping His commandments is about love.


Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

• We love God, by obeying the commandment to love our neighbor.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21

• “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT

 

[benhur]

b...,

EL....?.......eternal life?

Yes, Eternal Life

 

[benhur]

John 10:26-28 (HCSB)
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.


2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses.
You are saved by grace!


Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.


Philippians 1:5-6 (HCSB)
5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now.
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you
will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.


1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 20:26-28
You will notice that Jesus gives Eternal Life to those that follow him. If you were to try to describe what it would be like to follow Jesus, you would use words like, good works, walking in the spirit, not the flesh, teaching, healing, exhorting, be an example, have charity, have faith.

The people with these kinds of qualities and actions are the ones that Jesus is going to give EL to.

All your scriptures are based upon following Jesus. If you do that, you will never slip from his grasp, you will never be lost and forgotten. You will be assured EL.

If you do not follow Jesus, you will not have EL no matter how much you think you deserve EL, even if you pastor tells you that all you have to do is believe, you will not have EL. All the scriptures taken together tell us this is true.

 

[gb9]

Let's have you copy and paste where I said, as you have claimed I said -

"keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Otherwise you are a liar, and nothing you say can be trusted.


Either copy and paste where I said - "keep the 10 commands and love one another".


Or repent.


By bearing false witness against me, you are not demonstrating love toward me.


4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


Keeping His commandments is about love.


Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

• We love God, by obeying the commandment to love our neighbor.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21

• “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT

once again, I repent of nothing I have said here. John says nothing of the things you post about commandments.

i'll go with John. you should not dismiss His words because you do not believe him.

 

[justpassinthrough]

once again, I repent of nothing I have said here. John says nothing of the things you post about commandments.

i'll go with John. you should not dismiss His words because you do not believe him.

4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4




JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

i'll go with John. you should not dismiss His words because you do not believe him.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9




JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

once again, I repent of nothing I have said here. John says nothing of the things you post about commandments.

i'll go with John. you should not dismiss His words because you do not believe him.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

 

[gb9]

and what are those commands? believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

same man, same letter.