Not By Works

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preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
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Baptism does not save anyone at anytime, place, any age. You and those who believe as you do are putting stipulations on the gift of grace/salvation given to all mankind by God Almighty through His Son Jesus Christ. It's free for the acceptance. Following Jesus is another whole story. You are placing baptism as part of the saving process and that simply is not so.

s...,

Per scripture....you are wrong;

Acts 2:38-40...
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

John 3:5... Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

I Peter 3:21....The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

KJV...which Bible do you use?

There are many more references.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
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The scripture that is used often is John 3:15. This choice passage, taken alone, can lead one to think that all they have to do is believe and they are OSAS. However, that is a short sighted approach to the bible, because almost every page in the bible tells us that there other factors that go into the process of having EL.

I just responded to a person that says, your gospel is a false gospel if you put conditions on having EL. I think he was joking, but I could not tell. EG actually tried to defend the position by telling us that God does it all from beginning to the end. We have nothing to do with our belief or our actions, they are all the works of God. I told him good luck with that Mr. Calvin.

OSAS can only be true if from the day you are saved, you forsake the flesh and walk in the spirit with God and Jesus. If you do that, your EL is assured.

b...,

EL....?.......eternal life?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
15,069
113
Ben,

I have never ever heard a Christian say that they do not have to attend church on a Sunday because they are no longer under the Law of Moses.

Furthermore I have never ever heard that preached.

Was church attendance required under the law of Moses?
I'm not aware of that if it was.

In fact we find in the NT

Hebrews 10:24-25
24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Requirements to attend Sunday service in order to be saved is not correct, I will admit that.

Some believers may not be able to attend church on a Sunday or any day of the week due to various reasons.

In our church we have a Monday group. as they meet on Monday.
It's for OAP'S.

My wife is getting involved in it as a helper (side note as I have turned 50 I'm eligible to attend😎)

So Monday is their church day.
There is fellowship, worship and a sermon.
Some find that easier and quite a few still come on Sunday.

In a sense we are free from having to go to church in a religious sense.

But at times we can't make church for various reasons.

Given your experiences above if I heard people saying what you have heard I myself would question but only to the extent they never ever attend church because they do not want to.

That's different from one who says they do not have to but still do attend.
It's also different to those who want to but for various reasons cannot do.

So to finish, what are the Sabbath restrictions to you?
I agree.....in over 52 years of life and with 32 of that serving God and witnessing, proclaiming the gospel and or discussing the word with an untold number of people I have never heard half of the drivel he posts about that he has heard from "Christians"...........
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
I agree.....in over 52 years of life and with 32 of that serving God and witnessing, proclaiming the gospel and or discussing the word with an untold number of people I have never heard half of the drivel he posts about that he has heard from "Christians"...........
d......,
I and a SS class are doing a study on this very point, concerning several new age religion re-interpretations of scriptures;

No baptism necessary ( for several reasons!!!)
No repentance necessary
No church attendance necesarry.
No righteous living necessary.
Faith only is needed for eternal salvation
OSAS
Saved. here on earth....... preempting/precluding/superseding G-d's judgement.

All of which could directly impact our receiving eternal salvation.

So far it appears these new age interpretations have come into view and perpetuated since the 1960's when the moral and civil revolution began.

We shall see in a few months.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,998
2,855
113
LOL! There is not even one "choice" passage that promotes or supports the OSAS/ES agenda -- my opinion! :):eek:
John 10:26-28 (HCSB)
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.



2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses.
You are saved by grace!


Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.


Philippians 1:5-6 (HCSB)
5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now.
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you
will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.


1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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d......,
I and a SS class are doing a study on this very point, concerning several new age religion re-interpretations of scriptures;

No baptism necessary ( for several reasons!!!)
No repentance necessary
No church attendance necesarry.
No righteous living necessary.
Faith only is needed for eternal salvation
OSAS
Saved. here on earth....... preempting/precluding/superseding G-d's judgement.

All of which could directly impact our receiving eternal salvation.

So far it appears these new age interpretations have come into view and perpetuated since the 1960's when the moral and civil revolution began.

We shall see in a few months.

Interesting.


I had never heard of OSAS before I started on Christian Forums.

Preterism is another one.


I just don’t see how a born again Spirit filled Christian could read a scripture like 2 John 9, or Romans 2:5-8 of John 5:28-29 or Hebrews 3:12-14 and 1 Timothy 4:1 and believe in OSAS.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4



JPT
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,071
2,946
113
Interesting.


I had never heard of OSAS before I started on Christian Forums.

Preterism is another one.


I just don’t see how a born again Spirit filled Christian could read a scripture like 2 John 9, or Romans 2:5-8 of John 5:28-29 or Hebrews 3:12-14 and 1 Timothy 4:1 and believe in OSAS.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4



JPT
and what are the commands? believe in the name of the Son, and love one another.

you legalists always throw out 1st John 2 for command keeping for salvation. but , yet, if you keep reading the same letter, written by the same man, you get to chapter 3, where John said what I just wrote.

deceit is unchristian behavior.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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and what are the commands?

Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21


  • “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
  • all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.


8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,071
2,946
113
Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21


  • “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
  • all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.


8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
if you disagree with what John the beloved wrote, then take it up with Him. he wrote the letter, I just quoted it.

funny how you quoted part of the letter, then disagree with part of it. but, that is what legalism is. inconsistent deceit.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,283
162
63
and what are the commands? believe in the name of the Son, and love one another.

you legalists always throw out 1st John 2 for command keeping for salvation. but , yet, if you keep reading the same letter, written by the same man, you get to chapter 3, where John said what I just wrote.

deceit is unchristian behavior.
Well let's go to another book...

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Or here is another author...

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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if you disagree with what John the beloved wrote, then take it up with Him. he wrote the letter, I just quoted it.

No brother, I quoted it.


If you disagree with what John wrote then take it up with him.

John wrote 1 John and Revelation.


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21


  • “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
  • all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.


8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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funny how you quoted part of the letter, then disagree with part of it. but, that is what legalism is. inconsistent deceit.

Please stop bearing false witness against me.


I didn't say I disagree with anything.


I expounded on Love.


You don't seem to grasp that love requires obedience.


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by obeying His command to love our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21


  • “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
  • all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.


8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,071
2,946
113
No brother, I quoted it.


If you disagree with what John wrote then take it up with him.

John wrote 1 John and Revelation.


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21


  • “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
  • all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.


8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
yes, John said the commands were " believe in the name of the Son and love one another ". nothing about Sabbath.

so, John, who spent 3 years walking with Jesus, said these are the commands . I believe this. do you?
 
Oct 31, 2015
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yes, John said the commands were " believe in the name of the Son and love one another ". nothing about Sabbath.

Yes, love one another.


I just expounded on love, and defined love from the scriptures.


Love does no harm.


  • Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21


  • “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
  • all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.


8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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so, John, who spent 3 years walking with Jesus, said these are the commands . I believe this. do you?

Yes as I just quoted John and what He taught.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21


  • “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
  • all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.


8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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What does "walk in the Spirir" mean?

Walking according to the will and desire of the Spirit with in us, which expresses righteousness and love, unlike the flesh that expresses it's sinful desire for unrighteousness.



Here is what walking according to the flesh and practicing it's sinful desires is:


  • the works of the flesh are evident,


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21


  • just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.



Do you understand what "will not inherit the kingdom of God means"?





JPT
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,071
2,946
113
Yes, love one another.


I just expounded on love, and defined love from the scriptures.


Love does no harm.


  • Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21


  • “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
  • all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.


8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
yes, you are being deceitful about John wrote. believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

you are phrasing his words as " keep the 10 commands and love one another ".

he did NOT say this. so, stop saying he did, or get branded a liar.
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,806
473
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yes, you are being deceitful about John wrote. believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

you are phrasing his words as " keep the 10 commands and love one another ".

he did NOT say this. so, stop saying he did, or get branded a liar.

Please stop adding things that I did not say, and answer the questions I did actually say.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Love is the sum of His commandments.


If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?

If we worship other gods, is that loving God?

If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?

If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?


If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.


Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.


Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing


Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.


We love God, by loving our neighbor.



20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21


  • “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;
  • all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.


8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT