OSAS= House Built on Sand

Because that is what the OSAS doctrine promotes.


Do you believe if a person believes for a while then turns away from Christ, is still saved?



JPT

No one has ever been saved because they just believe in Jesus,

Thats your first problem.

No, that's not what OSAS teaches. Jesus died to deliver eternal salvation to the world.


It's called, backsliding.
And yes, because they give up on Christ doesn't mean Christ gave up on them. The scriptures are clear on this JLB.

The parable of the sower is not about gaining or loosing one's salvation, that is reading into the parable something that is not there.

That teaching that insists we can lose our salvation is predicated on the idea we do something first to save ourselves. And as such we are then able to damn ourselves right back the way from whence we came. Putting then our will as stronger than God's.
I am more and more loving the site I found not long ago. Studylight. They have so many more versions than I'm use to finding at other sites.
Ephesians 2:8-9For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 8:26 - NAS – In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.27.and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28.And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30.and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. 31.What then shall we say to these things If God is for us, who is against us?




John 10:27-29
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. "

How long does one stay in a state of denial before God cuts that person off, one minute, one year, ten years?

Faith is the instrument by which we are inseparably connected to Christ.

It is Christ who saves, not us.

Do you deny the power of Christ to overcome a person's backslidden state and to restore a person to right understanding of the adoption and connection that exists?

Do you consider his Love so shallow that He does not know and understand our human frailty?

Is His Love so shallow that He is not able to show us the error of our thinking and ways and so bring to mind once again the inseparable nature of our union with Him?

The believer is connected to Christ, He is in us first and foremost.
We remain in Him because He is in us and He does not leave, that is the power of the New Covenant!

No matter how you present the argument you are trying to save yourself …..but Jesus makes it very clear that He only saves those who are not trying to save themselves.

That's true from the observers point of view, in the sense that we must remain faithful until the end to be saved. But salvation is achieved by Christ and the Holy Spirit through us. We follow Christ by using our gift of faith and the Holy Spirit gives us the strength to endure the race to the end.

Nobody could remain faithful to the end if we were left to run the race using our own wisdom and faith, we rely on God 100% for our salvation. He does the work from start to finish, we just follow His lead using the gift of faith which He gave us.

Where did Jesus say he only saves those who are not trying to save themselves? I keep reading that we are to actively participate in our salvation by striving to enter through the narrow gate.

What do you mean by instrument? And are you speaking of Christ's faith or our faith?

Well said.
Arguments that we have to continue to work to stay saved is an attempt to put what is not even in the old testament into the new covenant. People in the old testament were saved by faith. Their sins were covered by the blood sacrifice of animals, so their sins were at issue still. But they were saved by faith even then. And as we know God knew his people even then as well.

What Jesus did was bring the sacrificial laws for sins to an end with his being the propitiation for the worlds sins. He was that last unblemished lamb sacrificed on the cross, the altar where Rome crucified what would be called sinners in the faith of the Jews, but in the worldly laws perspective, were law breakers. We can see the connection there. Rome crucified law breakers of the worst sort. Jesus died to take the sins, the violations of God's laws, of the world upon himself for all time.
And all one need do to be saved from those sins, is to have faith their sins are forgiven them by God through the sacrifice of himself, the giver of the old covenant law that was itself sealed in blood, with the blood sacrifice that sealed the new covenant through the death of God who was with us.

We couldn't work to stay sinless in the old covenant. Why would any doctrine teach we can work to remain sinless in the new? That's ,by the way, what we're saved from and through Christ/the anointed. Sin.

The bible says that those that have received salvation will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.

Yes, thanks for clarifying your false gospel.

That is not Scripture. I should clarify, that is not God's words in Christians scripture.

In your doctrine, you know that you are 'really' saved by if you endure to the very end. You can't know if you'll endure to the very end until you reach the very end. You people really need to start thinking your doctrine through a little better.

And, yes, let's stick to scripture and just go with what the Bible plainly says, not what you are told it says/means. It says you know you are saved right now by if you are presently believing/trusting in the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-2), not by if you will always be believing in the future (which you will not know if you did that or not until you get to the end). And you know if you're really believing/trusting in Christ by if you have a changed/changing life of obedience to God (1 John 3:6-10).

We don't need a long winded, bloviated, over-thought doctrine like Calvinism to see and understand this simple Biblical truth about the security and assurance of salvation.....as if Calvinism was a doctrine about security and assurance, which it is not. Far from it.

Actually the scriptures are clear and is not called backsliding.

• It's the willful act of renouncing, departing or disconnecting from Christ because of persecution.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Fall away - Strong's G868 - aphistēmi

1. to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove
   1. to excite to revolt
2. to stand off, to stand aloof
   1. to go away, to depart from anyone
   2. to desert, withdraw from one
   3. to fall away, become faithless
   4. to shun, flee from
   5. to cease to vex one
   6. to withdraw one's self from, to fall away
   7. to keep one's self from, absent one's self from

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


Stumbles - Strong's G4624 - skandalizō

to put a stumbling block or impediment in the way, upon which another may trip and fall, metaph. to offend

1. to entice to sin
2. to cause a person to begin to distrust and desert one whom he ought to trust and obey
   1. to cause to fall away
   2. to be offended in one, i.e. to see in another what I disapprove of and what hinders me from acknowledging his authority
   3. to cause one to judge unfavourably or unjustly of another
3. since one who stumbles or whose foot gets entangled feels annoyed
   1. to cause one displeasure at a thing
   2. to make indignant
   3. to be displeased, indignant

This is the context of the book of Hebrews, in which the context for Hebrews 6 & 10 find their origins in chapter three.


The unbelieving Jews would persecute believers in order to cause them to renounce Christ as a false prophet, to get them to turn away from Him. No longer following Him. In many cases persuading these believers to turn back to Judaism, in which they no longer had a sacrifice for sin, having put Jesus to an open shame, after having received the Holy Spirit.


Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

• in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from [Strong's G868] the living God;

Same greek word and same context as Luke 8:13


Fall away - Strong's G868 - aphistēmi

1. to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove
   1. to excite to revolt
2. to stand off, to stand aloof
   1. to go away, to depart from anyone
   2. to desert, withdraw from one
   3. to fall away, become faithless
   4. to shun, flee from
   5. to cease to vex one
   6. to withdraw one's self from, to fall away
   7. to keep one's self from, absent one's self from

JPT

The parable of the sower has everything to do with salvation.


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

The condition for salvation is to believe.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These who believe for a while, then no longer believe, are no longer believers.

• Believe = Saved

• Believe for a while = Saved for a while.

JPT

The bible says that those that have received salvation will seek to purify themselves even as Jesus (that one) is pure.

εκείνος
G1565 ἐκεῖνος ekeinos (ek-ei`-nos) p/d.
1. that one
2. (neuter) that thing

Could you please provide the scripture for your statement so we all can discuss it.




JPT

The doctrine of demons are mentioned in the text. Also, the words "the faith" (Greek tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. It doesn't mean that some will fall away from saving faith in Christ. These, who are in a state of professing adherence to the Christian faith, who nevertheless will in both doctrine and practice fall away from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.

The beginning of such a major departing from the apostolic faith was evidenced as the Roman Catholic church began to come into existence in the early 4th century. The RCC imposes on its clergy forbidding to marry and also abstaining from meats during lent (vs. 3). This same professing body has many demonic doctrines such as transubstantiation, indulgences, purgatory, papal infallibility, Mary's perpetual virginity etc..

Saved has the meaning of deliverance.
It is not about eternal life.
The parable is about being the right kind of soil to bear fruit in our
lives and thereby be delivered/saved from a life that is not lived in the victory of God's word.
The only way to understand scripture is from the finished work of the cross and the security of the believer in the promises of God.