OSAS= House Built on Sand
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A person sinning because they no longer want or care about the forgiveness they have received through Christ is far different than sinning because you are a weak or ignorant believer. If you sin because you don't care about your salvation anymore you will lose that salvation if you don't respond to God's efforts to bring you back to faith in Christ.
There is weak, immature believing and there is strong, mature believing. Strong or weak, mature or immature, you have to still be believing when Jesus comes back to be saved when he comes back. The stronger your faith in Christ's forgiveness is the more likely you will endure in that believing to the very end and be saved when Jesus comes back. The only person who can say they are immune to falling away is the mature, fruitful believer who has a 4th type of soil heart. The word is deeply rooted in them. They know Christ intimately. That's why it's important for the church to be growing believers up to that mature place, but the church does not do that.
You have one week to come back to the Lord or else you lose your salvation.
"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. " - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Based on the verses above, if I'm not still believing today, am I saved? Obviously, no.
Show me where Paul, or anybody in the Bible, says believing is an evil work of the damnable works gospel.
You can't earn justification, nor are you even capable, without God's gift of faith, of trusting in something you can't see. That's why it's called grace. But that hardly means you don't have to trust in God to get what he has promised you will get when you trust in him.
Yes, I am aware of that. 'Once saved always saved' doctrines are the 'not really' doctrines of the church. Unbelievers aren't really unbelievers. This passage doesn't really mean what it says, etc. etc....
Hebrews 10:10,14,26-30 makes it very clear that saved people sanctified by faith in Christ can lose their salvation and be destroyed when Jesus comes back. It has nothing to do with God's trustworthiness. He is faithful to those who believe and trust in him, not to those who depart the faith in unbelief. He has made no promise to the person who leaves the faith in unbelief. His promises belong to the believer, not the unbeliever or former believer.
Keep my eyes on Jesus? You mean keep believing, keep trusting. That's what I've been saying all along. But when I say it you claim it's me trying to work to save myself.
There is weak, immature believing and there is strong, mature believing. Strong or weak, mature or immature, you have to still be believing when Jesus comes back to be saved when he comes back. The stronger your faith in Christ's forgiveness is the more likely you will endure in that believing to the very end and be saved when Jesus comes back. The only person who can say they are immune to falling away is the mature, fruitful believer who has a 4th type of soil heart. The word is deeply rooted in them. They know Christ intimately. That's why it's important for the church to be growing believers up to that mature place, but the church does not do that.
You have one week to come back to the Lord or else you lose your salvation.
"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. " - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Based on the verses above, if I'm not still believing today, am I saved? Obviously, no.
Show me where Paul, or anybody in the Bible, says believing is an evil work of the damnable works gospel.
You can't earn justification, nor are you even capable, without God's gift of faith, of trusting in something you can't see. That's why it's called grace. But that hardly means you don't have to trust in God to get what he has promised you will get when you trust in him.
-One other thing Ralphie
when I say believer I am not using the word like you as a state of being of the person, but rather as the status conferred by God.
when I say believer I am not using the word like you as a state of being of the person, but rather as the status conferred by God.
Hebrews 10:10,14,26-30 makes it very clear that saved people sanctified by faith in Christ can lose their salvation and be destroyed when Jesus comes back. It has nothing to do with God's trustworthiness. He is faithful to those who believe and trust in him, not to those who depart the faith in unbelief. He has made no promise to the person who leaves the faith in unbelief. His promises belong to the believer, not the unbeliever or former believer.
Keep my eyes on Jesus? You mean keep believing, keep trusting. That's what I've been saying all along. But when I say it you claim it's me trying to work to save myself.
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I bet you'd be interested if IN THE CONTEXT there was even a hint that the arrabōn (earnest) could be taken away
Two of the records wherein arrabōn (earnest) is mentioned also indicate that we are sealed.
When God places His seal in our hearts, He does not remove it.
And I am not saying we are to return to our former life of sin once we are sealed. I am saying that it is God Who seals us and it is God who establishes us in Christ (1 Cor 1:21). I trust much more in God’s ability to establish me than in my ability to establish myself.
Two of the records wherein arrabōn (earnest) is mentioned also indicate that we are sealed.
When God places His seal in our hearts, He does not remove it.
And I am not saying we are to return to our former life of sin once we are sealed. I am saying that it is God Who seals us and it is God who establishes us in Christ (1 Cor 1:21). I trust much more in God’s ability to establish me than in my ability to establish myself.
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According to those who reject the true gospel of the eternal assurance of the believer from what I have read here we have multiple redefinition of words.
-Saved does not mean saved, it is temporal, it means you better keep believing and then you may be saved based on your ability to have kept that belief
-Redeemed, is yes, maybe, sometimes, depending how well one trusts and has faith in the blood of Christ on a moment by moment basis, because no one really knows how much faith/belief one needs to be redeemed over the course of a lifetime
-Justification is quasi-justification because apparently the blood of the cross is a give and take proposition, a quasi bi-lateral agreement where God is allowed to renege on his promises according to the failures of his subjects
-Quasi-justification must be maintained by ongoing belief because obviously the failures of the first covenant were not enough, and God was not able to create a new agreement/covenant where He can assume all the debt and secure the once and for all innocence of his debtors who agree to enter into the agreement.
God is just incompetent that way, therefore He needs us to do our part to maintain our justification, even though we will fail, but our pride tells now we will not, we will we keep the faith to meets God's standard even though no one really knows how much faith will keep us saved.
-Sanctification and the indwelling of the Spirit of God are temporaral based on our performance because God has no ability to work in the life of the believer to chasten or recover
And last but not least, faith/belief, no longer a singular event which brings justification, positional sanctification, redemption and promised glorification.
If belief as defined by scripture is not a singular event that brings the permanent and secure promises, actions and declarations of God in the life of the new believer, then all of the above is absolutely correct so really one is on one's own working to secure one's salvation.
If salvation is not secure then one has to work/achieve it and that is not the gospel. You can twist and turn all you want but you have made ongoing belief a work since it requires sustained effort on the part of the person which is a work for the payment of eternal life
Which tells me that you have not come to understand that God places the believer in a different relationship with Himself based one act of faith in the finished work of the cross, what we do after regeneration is from a place of freedom and love not compulsion to achieve salvation.
-Saved does not mean saved, it is temporal, it means you better keep believing and then you may be saved based on your ability to have kept that belief
-Redeemed, is yes, maybe, sometimes, depending how well one trusts and has faith in the blood of Christ on a moment by moment basis, because no one really knows how much faith/belief one needs to be redeemed over the course of a lifetime
-Justification is quasi-justification because apparently the blood of the cross is a give and take proposition, a quasi bi-lateral agreement where God is allowed to renege on his promises according to the failures of his subjects
-Quasi-justification must be maintained by ongoing belief because obviously the failures of the first covenant were not enough, and God was not able to create a new agreement/covenant where He can assume all the debt and secure the once and for all innocence of his debtors who agree to enter into the agreement.
God is just incompetent that way, therefore He needs us to do our part to maintain our justification, even though we will fail, but our pride tells now we will not, we will we keep the faith to meets God's standard even though no one really knows how much faith will keep us saved.
-Sanctification and the indwelling of the Spirit of God are temporaral based on our performance because God has no ability to work in the life of the believer to chasten or recover
And last but not least, faith/belief, no longer a singular event which brings justification, positional sanctification, redemption and promised glorification.
If belief as defined by scripture is not a singular event that brings the permanent and secure promises, actions and declarations of God in the life of the new believer, then all of the above is absolutely correct so really one is on one's own working to secure one's salvation.
If salvation is not secure then one has to work/achieve it and that is not the gospel. You can twist and turn all you want but you have made ongoing belief a work since it requires sustained effort on the part of the person which is a work for the payment of eternal life
Which tells me that you have not come to understand that God places the believer in a different relationship with Himself based one act of faith in the finished work of the cross, what we do after regeneration is from a place of freedom and love not compulsion to achieve salvation.
Luke 15
The parable of the prodigal hinges more on the brother and their response to the fathers receiving the prodigal son back with open arms.
The prodigal son wasn't saved until he repented to his father at his return. He was always a child of God. All creation is the "offspring" of creator of it. However, the Prodigal , Prodigal meaning spending money or resources freely and recklessly; wastefully extravagant. Having or giving something on a lavish scale, was worldly. His passion was to spend his earthly inheritance on satisfying the passions of his flesh. He was not aware of a deeper relationship or meaning to being a member of his fathers house. And he did not realize that or what he'd sacrificed until he was eating with the pigs. Which were a detestable animal in Hebrew tradition. There's meaning in that too of course. He wrestled with the swine for food to sustain himself.
But the story continues in describing the older brothers reaction to his father embracing and celebrating his younger brothers return.
Like unto the conflict that arises in discussions such as this. Those who are saved and fall and return. Some think they're not worthy of being in covenant with Christ. As if they were not so in the first place. But that's not the case at all. The father always welcomes home his own. Because he first and foremost knows we are a race, human race, that needed saving from our nature in the first place.
28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’
31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”
Whereas 1 John 2 speaks of those that walked with Christ and the other disciples. However, certain in that number fell away because what was ultimately the Gospel message did not resonate with them.
The parable of the prodigal hinges more on the brother and their response to the fathers receiving the prodigal son back with open arms.
The prodigal son wasn't saved until he repented to his father at his return. He was always a child of God. All creation is the "offspring" of creator of it. However, the Prodigal , Prodigal meaning spending money or resources freely and recklessly; wastefully extravagant. Having or giving something on a lavish scale, was worldly. His passion was to spend his earthly inheritance on satisfying the passions of his flesh. He was not aware of a deeper relationship or meaning to being a member of his fathers house. And he did not realize that or what he'd sacrificed until he was eating with the pigs. Which were a detestable animal in Hebrew tradition. There's meaning in that too of course. He wrestled with the swine for food to sustain himself.
But the story continues in describing the older brothers reaction to his father embracing and celebrating his younger brothers return.
Like unto the conflict that arises in discussions such as this. Those who are saved and fall and return. Some think they're not worthy of being in covenant with Christ. As if they were not so in the first place. But that's not the case at all. The father always welcomes home his own. Because he first and foremost knows we are a race, human race, that needed saving from our nature in the first place.
28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’
31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”
Whereas 1 John 2 speaks of those that walked with Christ and the other disciples. However, certain in that number fell away because what was ultimately the Gospel message did not resonate with them.
Perhaps you'd like to show FROM THE CONTEXT that the arrabōn (earnest) could be taken away
Two of the records wherein arrabōn (earnest) is mentioned also indicate that we are sealed.
When God places His seal in our hearts, He does not remove it.
And no one has said we are to return to our former life of sin once we are sealed. I and others have stated repeatedly that it is God Who seals us and it is God who establishes us in Christ (2 Cor 1:21). For myself, I trust much more in God’s ability to establish me than in my ability to establish myself.
When Abraham tried to insert himself into the covenant God made in Gen 15, God put Abraham to sleep. When Noah and his family went into the ark, God shut him in (Gen 7:16). You think you can do a better job of it than God at maintaining yourself? Have at it.
Two of the records wherein arrabōn (earnest) is mentioned also indicate that we are sealed.
When God places His seal in our hearts, He does not remove it.
And no one has said we are to return to our former life of sin once we are sealed. I and others have stated repeatedly that it is God Who seals us and it is God who establishes us in Christ (2 Cor 1:21). For myself, I trust much more in God’s ability to establish me than in my ability to establish myself.
When Abraham tried to insert himself into the covenant God made in Gen 15, God put Abraham to sleep. When Noah and his family went into the ark, God shut him in (Gen 7:16). You think you can do a better job of it than God at maintaining yourself? Have at it.
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This just shows how some folks repeat things they've read without really knowing the truth behind the matter. Abraham was very involved in the blood covenant ceremony. He cut the animals in pieces and walked between them. Then he fell into a trance, or vision (not sleep), in which GOD spoke to him. He was awake to see GOD walking through the pieces. Once both parties walked between the pieces the covenant was sealed. There was nothing more for Abraham to do after he had walked through the pieces.
Genesis 15:
9 And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
10 And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.
11 And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
vs 9-10 – in agreement Abraham cut and divided the pieces.
Not in agreement Abraham walked through in order to confirm the covenant.
vs 11 – Abraham drove away the fowls.
vs 12 – Abraham fell into a deep sleep.
vs 13 – God reveals His promise to Abraham
vs 17 – a smoking furnace and a burning lamp passed between the pieces.
Was Abraham the smoking furnace?
Was Abraham the burning lamp?
9 And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
10 And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.
11 And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
vs 9-10 – in agreement Abraham cut and divided the pieces.
Not in agreement Abraham walked through in order to confirm the covenant.
vs 11 – Abraham drove away the fowls.
vs 12 – Abraham fell into a deep sleep.
vs 13 – God reveals His promise to Abraham
vs 17 – a smoking furnace and a burning lamp passed between the pieces.
Was Abraham the smoking furnace?
Was Abraham the burning lamp?
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That is the reason I use the AMPC translation for study. It in parentheses places the different meaning of the Greek or Hebrew word.
Here is John 3:16 for example.
John 3
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
Here is where OSAS comes from. It is a great comfort for all believers.
John 10 AMPC
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.
Here is John 3:16 for example.
John 3
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
Here is where OSAS comes from. It is a great comfort for all believers.
John 10 AMPC
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.
The Holy Spirit is the down payment of our inheritance, UNTIL THE REDEMPTION OF THE POSSESSION.
<1,,728,arrabon> originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.
<1,,728,arrabon> originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.