OSAS= House Built on Sand

Speaking of Hebrews...

Hebrews 4 -

"2 For we also received the good news [having had gospel preached (to us)--perfect tense participle], just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, since they did not share the faith [not having been mixed with/united with the faith] of those who comprehended it [those having heard--aorist]. 3 Now we who have believed [having believed--aorist participle] enter [present tense] that rest. As for the others, it is just as God has said: “So I swore on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter My rest.’” And yet His works have been finished since the foundation of the world."

Why don't you explain the difference for the listening audience?

It has been covered here (CC) so many times by many others ... what more could I add

but put this in the picture of the Shepherd and His sheep -- sheep are stupid, slothful, incompetent and possess notoriously poor hygiene.

what happens if a stupid sheep wanders off -- is it a 'good' shepherd that just lets him go? isn't it a slothful, incompetent shepherd?


does 'not losing any sheep' mean not losing sheep that never get lost in the first place, and abandoning any sheep that wander off?
a shepherd that maybe calls for a sheep but doesn't actually go out and rescue them, is that a good one or a bad one?

great

does He not do the same thing He's instructing us to do -- and do it infinitely more and infinitely better?

Luke 15:

1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

He’s talking to the pharisees and scribes who isolated themselves from the masses and they were murmuring because Jesus received sinners and ate with them.

And you're trying to tell me that the pharisees were justified???


The 99 sheep were left in vs 4 and never mentioned again.

The 9 coins were never mentioned.

The 1 son was actually being chastened by his father, even while the father told him “son, you are always with me and all that I have is yours”.


I cannot take your blinders off for you. It’s right there, in the text. READ THE TEXT.


Jesus made the same point in Luke 5.


Luke 5

29 And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.

30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?

31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


In Luke 5, do you think Jesus was telling the scribes and pharisees who murmured against His disciples that they were righteous? Jesus was telling them that they were not sinners in need of repentance?


In both Luke 5 and Luke 15, Jesus was reproving the scribes and pharisees for their arrogance and pride.

in the context:


next He gives the parable of the lost coin, then the two sons, then the shrewd manager.

He's talking to the pharisees & scribes.

He's describing Himself and what He does, seeking and saving the lost, and how 'sinners' are coming to the kingdom while the ones who are outwardly righteous are being left behind in unbelief.

the context isn't instructing His disciples on what to do, except only in imitation of Him by implication. He's not even directly addressing His disciples here: He's directly addressing unbelievers who are accusing Him because He sits down and eats with the outwardly unrighteous which believe and receive Him. the "you" in "what man of you" is in particular the pharisees and scribes: that's who He's specifically replying to with these words.

He goes after the one that is lost.
He goes until He finds it.
He lays it on His shoulders.
He rejoices.
He goes home carrying it on His own neck.
He gathers His friends and neighbors when He arrives and throws a party.

♥

Oh that's right... it's secret knowledge that only the spiritual can receive.

The context is about what it takes to be His disciple.


Jesus is teaching His disciples [those who were with Him and those of us would be disciples], in which He speaks in parables, when the Pharisee's and crowds [unsaved] were around.


33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

34 “Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”
Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him. 2 And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them.” 3 So He spoke this parable to them, saying:
4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 14:33-15:7



Jesus said the sheep who were with the shepherd were just.

Jesus said the sheep who wandered away from the shepherd became lost.


It's just that simple and can not be refuted.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep,




JPT

that's the previous chapter. Luke 14:25 -- large crowds following, so He turned to them and said...

in the context of going after lost sheep ((Luke 15)) as i and RenewedDaybyDay both pointed out, He is directly addressing unbelieving, grumbling scribes and pharisees.


i don't disagree that we should be imitating Him in what He does. but the text of Luke 15 doesn't say He's telling His disciples what to do: He's telling people complaining about who He's associating with a parable about what He is doing.
our imitation of Him in His work is completely secondary and completely by oblique implication here; it's not what the parable is about. the parable is about Him and what He does. in the parable, His disciples are the sheep He's gone out and lain on His own shoulders, carrying them by His own power back to His home.

if i'm the shepherd in this parable, then i'm the one carrying others on my own shoulders: i'm the one saving people by my own strength. that's not scriptural. i'm the filthy idiot lost sheep that He's rescuing and carrying and bringing to His house.

If he finds it...

"If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? 13“If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. " - Matthew 18:12-13

man's plans are uncertain -- but will He fail to do what He sets out to do?

Matthew 10 -

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15 -

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


[wasn't sure there was a time limit on posting, sorry]

Not everybody heeds God's call. In fact, most do not. So I guess that means God is a failure?

many called; few chosen.
probably how a person answers your question depends on who they think "all those He has given Me" are..

as for me i am particularly struck by the fact that it says "those He has given" not those who give themselves. those chosen, not those who choose themselves. there's a profound implication of ownership and authority there, and my dear Ralph, i'm afraid you might have just opened the door to make this thread explode into another free-will/predestination melee . . . .

XD

which means we'll obviously have to get into quantum physics and metaphysical implications of sub-atomic diameter.

Its just the way you decide to look at it.

Is Salvation a gift?

Or is salvation a result of you willing yourself to believe?


If it is a gift then everything that the legalist demands must be done to assure Salvation is also a gift.


If it is a result of you willing yourself to believe then it is up to you to continue to will yourself to believe in order to stay saved.
No matter how much you scoff, that is a work. And also against scripture, fyi.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: