OSAS= House Built on Sand

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
@Ralph- ..please read..sorry its long..


Losing Salvation1
In order to understand Hebrews 6:4-6, we must first determine whether someone who is saved can lose his or her salvation. There are sincere Christians on both sides of this debate; however, what’s most important is what the Bible says. Let’s let the Bible answer that question.

First, it’s important to remember that salvation is by God’s grace, not our works (Ephesians 2:8, 9). We don’t earn salvation by our obedience; rather, when we accept Him, Jesus gives us His righteousness (Romans 3:22-25). Acts 16 tells about when Paul and Silas were doing missionary work in Philippi and were falsely accused and thrown in jail. When God miraculously opened the jail doors, Paul and Silas didn’t leave; instead, they saved the jailer’s life. The jailer “asked, ‘Sirs, what must I do to be saved?’ They replied, ‘Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved’ ” (verses 30, 312).

Belief is a function of the will. No one can force a person to believe. He or she must choose to believe (John 3:16). And the same will that can choose to believe can also choose to stop believing. Several texts illustrate this.Hebrews 3:12-14 cautions against turning away from God and urges the need to hold firmly to the confidence we had at first until the end. In Matthew 24:13, Jesus says that “he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” That suggests that those who don’t stand firm to the end won’t be saved. Verse 103 makes it clear that Jesus is talking about Christians when He says that those who stand firm to the end will be saved.

One of the clearest passages on this subject is 1 Corinthians 15:1, 24. Notice how verse 2 says that if we don’t hold firmly to the gospel, we’ve believed in vain. Clearly, such a person was saved at one time. This passage tells us as much. But equally clearly, it’s possible for that belief to become in vain, or worthless. In other words, Paul is talking about those who lose their salvation.

There are several other texts that confirm what 1 Corinthians 15:1, 2 tells us. The Bible in 2 Peter 2:20-22 tells us that those who turn away from knowing Jesus and become entangled in the world’s corruption are worse off than they were at the beginning. According to Revelation 3:5, those who won’t have their names blotted out of the book of life are those who overcome. And in 1 Corinthians 9:27, Paul says he takes care so that he doesn’t become disqualified for eternal life.

Because of what we’ve just discovered, some people wonder, “If it’s possible to lose my salvation, can I really be sure that I’m saved?” The Bible is clear that we can have confidence in our salvation. Acts 16:31 is a promise that if we believe in Jesus, we’ll be saved. And God’s promises are trustworthy. In John 10:28, Jesus promises, “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.” In other words, when we trust Jesus, we need not fear. No adversary can take the gift of salvation from us. (Some people argue that this verse means that it’s impossible for someone to lose their salvation. But it doesn’t say, “No one can leave my hand.” We need to avoid reading more into a text than is there, and consider each text in the context of all the other Bible verses on the subject.)

In reality, the view that salvation can’t be lost can easily lead to doubting one’s salvation. When I was a teenager and learning to drive, one of my instructors was a seminary student preparing to become a pastor. One day when we were out driving, we fell into a discussion about whether it’s possible to lose one’s salvation. I asked my instructor about those who are converted and whose lives show every indication of conversion, but who nevertheless turn their backs on God and reject Him. “Haven’t they lost their salvation?” I asked. In reply, he told me that such people had never been saved in the first place.

If that reasoning is true in every such case, then it’s easy to see why some people are unsure of their salvation. After all, anyone who has decided that they want to follow Christ and then falls back into their old way of life could wonder, after they return to Christ, “Was I really saved before? What if I fall again? Am I really saved now?” How much better to live by the Bible truth, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31)!

Another objection some raise against the possibility of losing one’s salvation is the issue of works. Some people believe that whenever you commit a sin, you lose your salvation. However, since we’re saved by grace, not works (Ephesians 2:8, 9), such a belief is clearly unbiblical. If you lose your salvation by committing a sin, that’s works. But that’s not what scripture says. The Bible talks about enduring to the end (Matthew 24:13) and holding firmly to the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1, 2). That isn’t works, it’s a choice—a state of mind—just as accepting the gift of salvation and believing in Jesus is a choice and a state of mind. In other words, we lose our salvation only when we choose to stop believing. We can’t be unborn, but we can die.

Hebrews 6:4-6
With this background in mind, let’s consider Hebrews 6:4-6. As we read the text, something jumps out at us: This passage is clearly referring to those who at one time were saved. Only the saved share in the Holy Spirit, for example (see Acts 2:38; Ephesians 1:13, 14).

The real problem is in verse 6. It says that it is impossible for those who have been saved, “if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” We’ll consider two possible interpretations.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
Cintinuation @Ralph-

Option One
Some commentators see this verse as a reference to the unpardonable sin (seeMatthew 12:31, 32). Since 1 John 1:9 promises that God will forgive our sins if we confess them, then the unpardonable sin must be the sin we refuse to confess.

An example of this is the life of King Saul. Shortly after Samuel anointed him king, the Holy Spirit came on him and worked mightily in him (see 1 Samuel 10:9, 10, and surrounding verses). Yet Saul grew proud and began to defy God. First, God decreed that Saul’s royal line wouldn’t endure (1 Samuel 13:14). After Saul continued to reject God, God rejected Saul (1 Samuel 15:26) and directed Samuel to anoint David king. Eventually, Saul had rejected God so consistently that God stopped answering him (see 1 Samuel 28:6). In this last occasion in which Saul tried to inquire of the Lord, it wasn’t out of a heart of repentance; Saul was simply trying to save himself from the Philistines.

Like Saul, if we persistently reject God—even if we once were saved—there will come a time when God respects our freedom of choice and the Holy Spirit stops drawing us. That is the unpardonable sin. It isn’t that God refuses to forgive it, it’s that we refuse to repent. (By the way, anyone who wonders whether they’ve committed the unpardonable sin hasn’t done so. Those who have have no desire or concern for the things of God since the Holy Spirit has left them.)

So according to this view, when the writer of Hebrews refers to falling away in Hebrews 6:6, he’s referring to those who have persistently turned their backs on God, thus committing the unpardonable sin.

Option Two
Another angle on this passage is illustrated by the alternate translation of the word “because” in verse 6 as given in the NIV’s footnote on that verse. If we used the alternate reading and swapped “while” for “because,” then the verse would read, “if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, while to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” So we can’t be brought back to repentance while we’re crucifying Jesus all over again.

Neither “because” nor “while” is present in the original Greek. Those words were supplied by the translators in order to make the verse more understandable to English-speaking readers. Young’s Literal Translation (YLT) renders the phrase this way: “Having crucified again to themselves the Son of God.”

The Greek word that YLT renders as “having crucified again” is anastaurountas(ἀνασταυροῦντας5). It’s a present (continuous) participle. In English, our verb tenses describe time. If I say, “I will come,” then you know that I’m referring to the future. If I say, “I come,” you know that I’m referring to right now. And if I say, “I came,” you know that the action already happened. Greek is different. Instead of describing time, Greek tenses describe the type of action. In the case of the present tense, the action is described as continuous; any time significance is secondary. And since anastaurountas is in the present tense, we know that it’s describing a continuous action.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
Continuation @Ralph-

In other words, our text is describing those who are continually crucifying Christ by their falling away. According to the unpardonable sin view, this makes sense. Those who have persistently rejected Christ are obviously crucifying Him again and subjecting Him to disgrace.

However, when we realize the continuous nature of anastaurountas, another option for interpreting this verse presents itself. As long as we insist on a fallen away life, we’re crucifying Christ and we can’t repent because repentance requires submission to God. But if we truly submit to God, then we’re no longer crucifying Christ and so repentance is possible.

In the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32), the younger son started out with his father. Because this is a parable, it should be understood in a symbolic sense. The father is clearly a symbol for God the Father, and the father’s house refers to heaven or a life in fellowship with God. So we can safely argue that the son was saved at the beginning of this story. But the prodigal son fell away; he took his inheritance and traveled to a far country where he lived a wild life. Eventually, he hit rock bottom and decided to return home. But he had to leave his old life before he could return home. He didn’t return home with a prostitute on each arm! In other words, while the son was living his wild life, he was crucifying Christ. But in order to return home, he stopped crucifying Christ.

Conclusion
I’m not sure which of these two interpretations (option one or option two) is best. They both have merit. In either case, it’s clear that the situation isn’t hopeless for those who have a sincere desire to repent. Remember, David committed adultery then killed a man to hide his previous sin. Yet when he repented, God forgave him. In the end, “if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,945
8,664
113
Show me in the Bible where believing in Christ is me relying on myself to be saved. Last time I checked 'believing' was not among the works that Paul said can not justify. In fact, he made it very clear that is the only thing that I do that can justify. But it sounds like you're pretty certain he said believing is also a work of the damnable works gospel. Show me.



That's how it works. Believing is how you got saved. Stop doing that and you cease to be saved. Paul said if you are presently believing you are presently saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-2). But you claim I don't have to still be believing today to be saved.



That's called 'believing', but when I say it it's called 'trying to save yourself'.



Wrong! Biblical 'yes, you can lose your salvation' has nothing to do with relying on self to save yourself. Unless you think 'believing' is included in what you do that can not save. And apparently you do, so show us the scripture that says that.nu
Just an utter complete lack of understanding, and acknowledgement that we are born again! If we are born again we are His Children.

YOUR FAITH IS THE GIFT GOD GAVE YOU BY WHICH YOU BELIEVED AND BECAME BORN AGAIN BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST AND HIS SUBSEQUENT RESURRECTION!

STOP thinking it's YOUR belief that keeps you saved. It's Jesus Christ that keeps you saved because if you are born again, He will never leave or forsake you.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,214
1,980
113
[...] doctrine sweeping through the church. Now even unbelievers will inherit the kingdom when Christ comes back! Wow!
I know a guy who believes that (or did, last time I talked with him)... This idea is derived by his inability to grasp who "the guests" are, in the parables of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [the earthly MK, aka "the kingdom of the heavens [on the earth, upon His 'return' there]"... thus improperly applying it to "the Church which is His body"

He says "unbelievers" will be there [meaning, entering that time period]. (contrary to Matt25:31-34 and Matt13:30,39,40,49-50, and others)
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
16,301
113
69
Tennessee
I got red pilled and I want others to wake up to the truth too and stop making the Bible not really mean what it says. It makes us look like idiots.
I believe that it's the blue pill that wakes you up and not the red one.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
Bawk! Bawk!

Chicken. :p

As long as you don't use the name 'H----G----' it won't be recognized as talking about that. All you have to do is continue to talk about how you are saved even if you stop believing and no one will realize you're talking about the forbidden subject. Now that you know what it is (or at least what part of it is) you can see it's talked about very openly and plainly in this forum. I think the forbiddennessnessness of it is in regard to it's prosperity gospel component.
Ahhhh..you mean H...G as in HOLY GHOST...;)
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
A bit confused..what does
'Osas=house built on sand" mean..more particular OSAS stands for.

And without going back to read all the posts..is this convo on a tangent from the OP?
J...,

Once Saved Always Saved. OSAS....but, don't be impressed it's a new age religion concept out of the moral and social revolution of the 1960's without any biblical validation whatsoever.

Also included in such garbage thinking is the concept that even baptism is NOT necessary...any more...since Christ was baptized for us and/or mom's Amniotic fluid baptized us. (LOL..if one can believe that)...with many other reasons why baptism is not necessary even though The Bible tells us baptism is required for sin repentance cleansing.

There are other elements to this .....new age religion....envelope that is as funny if it were not leading so many astray. As scripture says..........in the end times ......many will be deceived.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,214
1,980
113
"having been buried with [G4916] Him in the baptism, in which also you were raised with [G4891] Him through [by means of] the faith of the working of God, the One having raised Him out from the dead." Col2:12blb



[the "one"]
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
J...,

Once Saved Always Saved. OSAS....but, don't be impressed it's a new age religion concept out of the moral and social revolution of the 1960's without any biblical validation whatsoever.

Also included in such garbage thinking is the concept that even baptism is NOT necessary...any more...since Christ was baptized for us and/or mom's Amniotic fluid baptized us. (LOL..if one can believe that)...with many other reasons why baptism is not necessary even though The Bible tells us baptism is required for sin repentance cleansing.

There are other elements to this .....new age religion....envelope that is as funny if it were not leading so many astray. As scripture says..........in the end times ......many will be deceived.
I believe Jesus set the example for us by being baptized and recueving the holy spirit and no..NOTE jesus was NOT a baby when baptized...to me..baptizm is sybolic..representing the "old man/nature/ being washed new (by submersion) it represents the committment weve already made to Christ in our hearts and wanting to share that as an act of obediance and understanding with family n friends..its like a weddimg cerimony...its only REPRESENTS the commitment if love the couple has already mafe to each other and sharing that with others..

And no..baptism isnt REQUIRED for any PART of our salvation since it usually takes place AFTER the fact. Anither representation is taking communion..etc
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,945
8,664
113
Im still holding out for the purple on n hey..if it helps you lose weight too..all the better ;)
If you can believe it Jewell, there are a number of people here that think a born again Child of God can become unborn and lose their Salvation.

They don't like that God's children believe they don't have to work to attain or maintain their Salvation.

So OSAS is basically a derogatory term they use to demean those who believe they are eternally secure in Christ.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
That's called H---G----.

It's the new 'once saved always saved' doctrine sweeping through the church. Now even unbelievers will inherit the kingdom when Christ comes back! Wow! Talk about ear tickling doctrines!
That's the ultimate in self-assurance, and the inevitable fruit of natural/total inability.
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,672
359
83
I asked you to show FROM THE CONTEXT where is it stated that the arrabōn is ever taken away or that it is only received "if they continue in the faith".

I even provided the verses wherein arrabōn is used — 2 Cor 1:22, 2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14.

You go outside the context, post unrelated verses with no explanation as to how they relate to 2 Cor 1:22, 2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14, and have proven nothing.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
If you can believe it Jewell, there are a number of people here that think a born again Child of God can become unborn and lose their Salvation.

They don't like that God's children believe they don't have to work to attain or maintain their Salvation.

So OSAS is basically a derogatory term they use to demean those who believe they are eternally secure in Christ.
Sad..well..those people better buck up cause tgeyre gonna have to do a ton of GOOD THINGS before seein those pearly gates...they can start by mowing my lawn n brining me a plate of fresh baked chocolate chip cookies;)
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
@PennEd ..can you imagine living with and always having the insecurity if youve done enough good in your life to get to heaven? Nervewracking!
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,672
359
83
If we don't have or grow, in the fruits of the Holy Spirit, which is the characteristics of God's nature, for all the Fruits of Righteousness, are from the Seed, of Love. All the fruits, of unrighteousness, are on the seed of Evil. Disobedience is sin. Eve disobeyed God, and mankind fell from his Grace, and Glory. You can not do what you want to do, because, this is the flesh, the works of the flesh, is not the spiritual new man, within. The bible says be Crucified with Christ, crucify the lusts and works of the flesh. The human nature, and be born again with receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior, and GROW roots, spiritually. When the storms of life hit you, and your not in or on the Rock of Christ, you have built your house upon the Sand, things will happen, and your flesh, will react, to deep consequences. But the wise man built his house upon the Rock, who is our Chief Corner STone. Who is Jesus Christ. Some know about him Theology, but don't know him, personally.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
@PennEd ..ive asked this initially but weve talked bout osas but the OP saud its equal to building house on sand? We havent talked bout the sand part..or is that meaning that if we believe osas we are building our sporitual hpuse on sand instead of the solid rock?
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
If you can believe it Jewell, there are a number of people here that think a born again Child of God can become unborn and lose their Salvation.

They don't like that God's children believe they don't have to work to attain or maintain their Salvation.

So OSAS is basically a derogatory term they use to demean those who believe they are eternally secure in Christ.
Did you read the long 3 postings i gave ralph to read? VERY informative..scripturally based...let me know what you think..