OSAS= House Built on Sand

No one is saying we do not continue to believe in the Christian life, however we are saved completely when Jesus has truly been the object of our faith, belief/faith is only the instrument, justification is wholly from God, "fait accompli" finished.

The problem in your reasoning comes from ...
1) it fails to acknowledge the enduring result of the faith that is wholly from God

2) the loss of salvation by necessity implies something we failed to do, if a person fails and then the other does not the one who does not fail is able to boast, capisci?

No, I do acknowledge the enduring result of Christ's death - our justification.

And again, you reasoning is absurd. Your one-time faith allows you to boast over those who never had it.

There is no boasting in faith. It recognizes that GOD alone gets all of the glory.

Think how silly your statement is. Do I have "faith" that I was born naturally, the product of my Earthly parents becoming one flesh? Utterly absurd! The fact of my existence speaks of my "faith' that I was born.

I don't need faith in my new birth. My spiritual Father begat me by the faith, HE GAVE ME, in His Son's death and subsequent resurrection. I am reborn His Child because of Who His Son is, and what His Son has done for me, and to me.

So let's just cut to the chase here. ARE YOU, RIGHT NOW, A BORN AGAIN CHILD OF GOD? And if so, tell me how you become unborn.

Ralph, consider the possibility that those who are engaging in this madness with you - saying that we don't have to believe until the end, yet saying that they still believe - at some point neglected the faith they had at a younger age, and then realizing their error, returned to the faith later in life. Thus there may be some guilt issues going on that is causing this resistance and animosity to this very basic and clearly witnessed reality that we have to persevere in the faith until the end.

Think how silly your statement is. Do I have "faith" that I was born naturally, the product of my Earthly parents becoming one flesh? Utterly absurd! The fact of my existence speaks of my "faith' that I was born.

I don't need faith in my new birth. My spiritual Father begat me by the faith, HE GAVE ME, in His Son's death and subsequent resurrection. I am reborn His Child because of Who His Son is, and what His Son has done for me, and to me.

So let's just cut to the chase here. ARE YOU, RIGHT NOW, A BORN AGAIN CHILD OF GOD? And if so, tell me how you become unborn.

And I'll add that you dodged my point by not explaining how believing the first time is not self-effort, whereas continued believing is.

That's what I've been saying. But I'm being told my continued believing is me trying to save myself by what I do as if believing is a work of the works gospel.

Question for you: Were you once a child of the Devil (like I was at one time)? So tell me, how did you cease being a child of the Devil?

It's not a matter of being "unborn", but of being disinherited. There are many examples in scripture of those who were rightful heirs being disinherited from receiving the promises of GOD due to their disobedience.

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It's a good question Chester. There are at least 2 passages that somewhat deal with this question. In both passages we ALL at least walked liked the sons of disobedience who have the spirit of the prince of the power of the air. So it might be fair to say that if we were not literally children of the devil, we at least acted in a way that was indistinguishable from them.

Ephesians 2:2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Collosians 3:6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.


So I was DEAD in my sins. Dead means NOT alive. Spiritually speaking I was dead. A dead person cannot do ANYTHING but be dead. There is no logical explanation as to why the desire came on me to even entertain the Gospel, much less believe and accept it. My life consisted of parties, and when the next one would come and most of the lists of bad, sinful stuff listed in several places. Why would I WANT to give that up?

Now my dead FLESH tries to come back to life ALL the time. And unfortunately I still sometimes forget that it IS dead and succumb to it and sin. This happens because of a failure to walk every moment in the Spirit. Because those are our only 2 options. Every second, of every day, we either walk in the Spirit or walk in the flesh.

To directly answer your question, whether a child of the devil, or just plain dead doesn't matter. What matters is that God drew me to Him. As I look back i can see exactly how He did that, and how He kept me physically alive, although I should have died several times over, UNTIL I was made His Child. I do not have an exact date of when that occurred, but I believe it was in 1992.

Why did you not answer my question?

I have 2 sons. For a whole host of reasons I may decide to give all to just one and "disinherit" the other. (I almost certainly won't do that). One may be more reliable, or worthy, or obedient. But in NO scenario would EITHER son no longer be my son. And although one may not inherit much, he will always be allowed on my land.

That's what I've been saying. But I'm being told my continued believing is me trying to save myself by what I do as if believing is a work of the works gospel.

It's a good question Chester. There are at least 2 passages that somewhat deal with this question. In both passages we ALL at least walked liked the sons of disobedience who have the spirit of the prince of the power of the air. So it might be fair to say that if we were not literally children of the devil, we at least acted in a way that was indistinguishable from them.

Ephesians 2:2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Collosians 3:6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.


So I was DEAD in my sins. Dead means NOT alive. Spiritually speaking I was dead. A dead person cannot do ANYTHING but be dead. There is no logical explanation as to why the desire came on me to even entertain the Gospel, much less believe and accept it. My life consisted of parties, and when the next one would come and most of the lists of bad, sinful stuff listed in several places. Why would I WANT to give that up?

Now my dead FLESH tries to come back to life ALL the time. And unfortunately I still sometimes forget that it IS dead and succumb to it and sin. This happens because of a failure to walk every moment in the Spirit. Because those are our only 2 options. Every second, of every day, we either walk in the Spirit or walk in the flesh.

To directly answer your question, whether a child of the devil, or just plain dead doesn't matter. What matters is that God drew me to Him. As I look back i can see exactly how He did that, and how He kept me physically alive, although I should have died several times over, UNTIL I was made His Child. I do not have an exact date of when that occurred, but I believe it was in 1992.

That's what I've been saying. But I'm being told my continued believing is me trying to save myself by what I do as if believing is a work of the works gospel.

And? IS it? Yes or no answer...

It is the goodness of God not the severity of God that leads men to repentance.

Dead in this illustration is Spiritual death not physical death. Calvinists often overstate Spiritual death in relation to physical death. Man cannot save himself but God is merciful and reaches down into the miry clay to lift men out. Those who perish are those who turn away from the goodness of God and raise their goodness up in place of Gods goodness.

Why did some in the camp turn away from the firey serpent instead of just looking upon it? They choose death as opposed to life by believing.

Nu 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It is!!

Is continuing to believe a "work of the works gospel"? Absolutely not! Continuing to believe is a work of God's grace in the heart

That and perhaps these people are struggling with doubt, and, living in failure as a Christian. They need to know as long as they don't go back to the world in outright unbelief and a denial of Christ that their faith in Christ, as weak as it may be, keeps them justified before the Father in heaven.

But 'once saved always saved' is the false gospel they have turned to to relieve the pressure of their doubts and sinful failures when the real answer is to keep believing Christ is the payment for their sins of weakness and ignorance and doubt they commit (no need to invent an ear tickling doctrine that says they are saved no matter what). And to remember the only sin Christ can't cover is the willful decision to go back to the world in unbelief. But 'once saved always saved' has deceived them into thinking they can go back to the world in defeat and they are still saved.