Are the words of the Messiah above all else?

What about The Fathers words ?

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,
to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John” (Revelation 1:1).

This book was not revealed by John, or an angel, or even Jesus Christ!
It was revealed by God the Father, who gave it to His Son.
Christ then gave it to an angel, who gave it to John.

The book of Revelation came from a source higher than Jesus Christ.
It came from the supreme authority in the universe—God the Father!


Christ was given revelation by God,
but then Christ added words written in red.

I would point to these just fro a sample:

John 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

John 5:19-20, “Therefore יהושע responded and said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son is able to do none at all by Himself, but only that which He sees the Father doing, because whatever He does, the Son also likewise does. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all that He Himself does. And greater works than these He is going to show Him, in order that you marvel.”

John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”

John 12:44-50, “Then יהושע cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, so that no one who believes in Me should stay in darkness. And if anyone hears My Words but does not watch over them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My Words, has one who judges him: the Word that I have spoken shall judge him in the last day. Because I spoke not from Myself, but the Father who sent Me has given Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, as the Father has said to Me, so I speak.”

This ties perfectly into Deut 18:18-19, the sent one we mush shawmah... Yahshua was the only sinless man and He spoke Yah's Word and did His will perfectly, no other can claim this nor has any other been given endorsement as shown in Deut 18:18-19.

But without doubt:

John 14:9-31, "יהושעthe Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you. Peace I leave with you – My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming to you.’ If you did love Me, you would have rejoiced that I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.....”

Gods word..whether breathed to us in prayer etc is absolute..the Bible is the INSPIRED word of God..mens UNDERSTANDING of the Bible differ..always will..just to get it straight the God/Jesus/Holy Spirit are one in the same..OP is kinda confusing by saying just the "Messiah"...

I was not saying nor was implying all Scripture is not inspired by YHWH, however I was saying, looking at Deut 18:18-19 as a starting point and using 2 times it was quoted in Acts to show what I believe: the Messiah, Yahshua/Jesus, is "the Sent One" we must "hear and obey" I was showing some of the Scriptures concerning this asking others opinions:

Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

John 14:23-26, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you.”

John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”

John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.”

John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

I believe these verses show a very clear message, particularly how the Deut 18:18-19 is quoted in Acts.

Ok..so it already looks like youre convinced of your own answers to why getting other people "opinions"? Just for the debate of it?

Dang! Seems you have me figured out! LOL. Well I am definitly studied in my view, thus I fully believe it. I had 2 ideas starting this thread, 1. to draw attention to the principle shown in Deut 18, Acts 3 and 7. and 2. hear others views the agree or disagree and their Scriptual reason why or why not. Again I never said all Scripture is not Yah inspired. My question to thise that view it different than I do is why would in Deut 18 YHWH, the Father single out 1 we must "shawmah" hear and obey, and then Acts 3 and 7 seem to support it not only y quoting it but by giving the view that it is the Messiah and it is His words. Finally the Messiah Himself also says this. None thaat disagreed have touched any of these pasages at all. I think of them as important due to the way it is worded and who the Messiah is.

Lol..good luck..i know a lot of people who like biblical debate..lol

I was being sarcastic at the beginning... but this Forum is the BDF, I love to talk Scripture with people who will do just that, talk Scripture! Dwelling on the Word is always nice! Oh well...

I was being sarcastic at the beginning... but this Forum is the BDF, I love to talk Scripture with people who will do just that, talk Scripture! Dwelling on the Word is always nice! Oh well...

"Talk" a nice way to say argue each others point of view til blue in the face and collapse? Lol

but, you only want to talk about Scripture that you can use to point to your law keeping for salvation non-sense.

If thats how you view it, I don't I can have a Scriptual debate with someone who uses Scripture and then replies to what the other presents. But honestly, most will ignore anything that goes against their belief even if it is plainly written. Also text does not in any manner convey someones tone, how someone preceives another may or may not be accurate in text like it would speaking and being able to look at them. It's easy when someone post Scripture to just go "out of context, next!" but to debate, speak about, whatever said Scripture is the purpose of the BDF IMO.

I thought it was to lwar grow discuss and study..not to try and convince youre pre determined agenda

Its one thing if your really ARE open to others opinion but you arent..youre trying to comvince people youre right and your way of thinking is the "only way"..hence the arguements that go on here..some people just thrive on the debate..get an addrenelien rush..not saying this is you...but if it quacks like a duck..walks like a duck..chances are..its a DUCK..lol

People like you speak badly of me so freely, I get called so many names here, yet can you quote a single post of mine where I have misused the word and show me my error? Because if I am not mistaken:

Proverbs 10:17, "He who keeps instruction is in the way of life, but he who refuses reproof goes astray."

Yet the verses I post it just "out of context" "law keeping nonsense"but now talk of what are the Commandments being talked about in Rev 14:12, etc... It always seems to be condemnation on any who would say "lets do what the Messiah says"

Well you don't know me and I have had people correct me and have thanked them for it. and e veryine has pre determined beliefs here... I dont think IM the only one...

If you want to talk about an honest debate we would be debating the Scriptures dealing with the OP and any you thought applied to the topic in support or oppisition to my views. I don;t think it would be a speaking about how Im wrong in character... If you wish to test your theory of me lets talk about Deut 18:18-19 principle point by point?

and a good question, not easy but one that is sure to come up on this topic.

Simply I say no, the word is in agreement, peoples understanding is not always right, I myself am not perfect and I am always learning.

I have aset of questions in this matter that I have gone over with many before.

Some people say Paul taught a different gospel than Yahshua/Jesus, some say they taught the same.

I, in my mind and heart can simplify this for my own understanding, I would liek to hear your view in this matter and any who want to chime in.

Who is "the prophet we must hear and obey" spoken of in Deut 18 and Acts 3?

Now this next part can be applied to anyone Joohn, James, Peter, Paul, etc. But I want to use Paul because people have differing views on this.

If the Messiah and Paul teach the same thing, no difference then I would have all the same information if I choose to only read the Messiah or only Paul.

If Paul taught something additional or different than the Messiah than I would need to read Paul also.

So the question whould be did Paul teach differently and I needed to hear him would that not make the "One we must hear and obey obselete?" or would Paul be the "One we must hear and obey?"

Now I dont ask this because I am unsure, I know Yahsua is the One spoken of in Deut 18 and Acts 3, I ask the uestion because there is much debate and people say Paul had "the full message" and things like this, however if that were true that would mean he taugt different and "the One we must hear and obey" the "knows all things" did not really know all things and He would not be the one we need to hear and obey/shawmmah.

Well you don't know me and I have had people correct me and have thanked them for it. and e veryine has pre determined beliefs here... I dont think IM the only one...

If you want to talk about an honest debate we would be debating the Scriptures dealing with the OP and any you thought applied to the topic in support or oppisition to my views. I don;t think it would be a speaking about how Im wrong in character... If you wish to test your theory of me lets talk about Deut 18:18-19 principle point by point?

and who was the Law of Moses given to? Israel only. and when Jesus said " keep My commands ", He is referring to the ones He gave while on earth. the mount of transfiguration, the Father said of the Son, " hear Him. " the Father did NOT say " hear Me through Him "'

if you accept the truth of Trinity, this makes perfect sense.

Yes the Law was given to Israel, yet even since Exodus Gentiles could be grafted in:

Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

The Israelites had developd man made Laws the Messiah spoke agaist those and without a better way to intrepret it, IMO, the Law of YHWH is to be kept as Messiah did and taught (intrepreted).

Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

However most preach a radically diffent "Law" abolishing nearly everything YHWH said, the reason I do not buy into this view is because:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Heaven and Earth HAS NOT yet passed away, I believe the Messiah therefore I believe the Law is still valid under HIS PRIESTHOOD.

Now we can go on to other things but if we are having a read debate here we will work these out. Also On a side note there is huge difference between Judaisim (Talmuc Rabbinical Law) and YHWH's Law. To conflate them is falsehood, nt saying you are but I want to put that out there to show where I stand.