Not By Works

="Cee, post: 3688664, member: 61913"]

Jesus said, I give you a *new* commandment...

Paul basically said, OT says no eye has seen, but WE have the mind of Christ

There’s just a few examples that the NT is different to the OT.

="VCO, post: 3688640, member: 178202"]I am teaching the way the New Covenant was designed to be taught.

We are NOT modern Day Israelites. WE HAVE A MUCH MORE INTIMATE AND PERSONAL COVENANT, than to be just His People. WE ARE SONS AND DAUGHTERS.

You have your way of interpreting it, I HAVE HIS WAY.

AND WORKS OF THE LAW NEVER WAS A WAY FOR ATONEMENT.

Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and IT was counted to him as RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Abraham BELIEVED GOD would send a MESSIAH.

We N.T. Saints BELIEVE GOD did send a MESSIAH.

It is the SAME FAITH, THE SAME WAY FOR ALL THE SAINTS TO BE SAVED, both O.T. and N.T. Saints.

Malachi 3:6 (TLB)
6 "For I am the Lord—I do not change.
That is why you are not already utterly destroyed [for my mercy endures forever].

The truth of the matter, is EXTRA LONG POSTS, especially with CONTINUED at the bottom, are JUST PLAIN RUDE in this type of discussion.

Well the Bible says sin is transgression of God's instruction. If we look at the examples of Faith God had written for our admonition, what does it show us?. For instance, if God says, let's says "17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him," Or let's use another example God had written for us.

Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

So if Abraham had Faith, which the scriptures all say that he did, then what would he do in response to this command?

Would he do as his Lord commanded? Or would he doubt the promise of God and say in his heart. "I am already saved" God knows that in the day I reject His instruct, "THEN" my eyes will be open as Eve was convinced.

Here we have two perfect example of faith. Eve, was given instruction from God and was convinced to reject it in favor of a voice which was not God. And He had written for us another example of man who was also given instruction from God. And what did these do?

Eve chose this action. "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food", she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat.

Abram chose another path. "So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him".

One of these people is an example of no faith. And one of these people is an example or true faith.

Romans 14:
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

So Cee, in the examples of faith that I posted, which of the two condemned themselves and which of the two didn't condemn themselves?

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Which person in the two examples I gave from the Word, there are many more, showed their action were not of faith in God? Please try and just rid your mind of man's preaching for a moment and honestly just answer this question. Did Abram exhibit Faith in God, or his own mind? Did Eve exhibit Faith in God, or her own mind. Which of the two were called "Faithful" and which of the two were called "sinful"?



Matt. 5:
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire

Who is Jesus talking about here? Is it not the corrupt Pharisees who "Taught for Doctrines the Commandments of men"? Who was in charge of administering God's Laws? Was it not the corrupt Priesthood?

And what did "THEY" of Old Time preach?

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

And what did the Word which became Flesh, the Word which was before Abraham. The Word which Abraham saw and was glad, the man Jesus say before He became Flesh Cee?

Lev. 19:
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

So Cee, "THEM" of Old Time taught part of God's Law, at least according to Jesus, like "an eye for an eye", but they omitted the more important parts of God's Laws. like showing Mercy to your brother.

This is what the Bible teaches. Religious man teaches that the "Them of old Time" was God. That God didn't teach righteousness in the OT, that Jesus had to come and correct Him, set Him straight. It is an insidious lie Cee, One that I hope you can discern and escape from.

If you don't mind I would like to address the rest of your reply in another post.

John 13:
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

How did Jesus love His Disciples?

Matt. 10:
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.


37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Matt. 16:
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Yes, Jesus gave us a New Commandment. As I have loved you, so love one another. But where did He say His instructions in the Law and Prophet are gone? He didn't Cee, He said exactly the opposite. Who is it that teaches He destroyed His Word's in the Law and Prophets? It isn't Him Cee, it's the same voice that tricked Eve.

...

It also said the mystery was there all along. It's just that folks were not allowed to SEE IT.



I never said the old Testament was the same as the New Testament. What I did was show you what the Creator of the New Covenant said the New Covenant was. Religious man teach the New Covenant was the elimination of the Law and Prophets, the old Testament. Jesus, as the Word of God, says the New covenant is the change of the Priesthood. And that the instructions of God are still here and will still be here after he comes back.

Is. 66
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

For me it's about what religious man says VS. what the Word of God actually says. And given I see this, and you must admit, it is compelling. But you have a choice as do we all. Do you listen to God or the other voices?









:

I figured out why your posts are so long. And nothing against you, but you reply to arguments that you create.

I didn’t say righteousness wasn’t taught in the OT. I said a greater requirement is placed on believers because Jesus is dealing with our hearts now.

And you’re seriously jumping over hoops to try to disagree with me.

It’s a simple fact that Jesus took the OT 10 Commandments and increased our observance to our heart motivations.

He showed them it wasn’t what went into a man, but what came out. He told them to even lust after a woman was sin. To even have anger or call a brother idiot is sin.

Your agenda is clear to me. You want the NT to be the kinda new because then you can use it to preach your observance of the Law. Because you keep the Sabbath.

But the OT and the NT are miles, miles, apart. We have a far better covenant and our righteousness is based on Christ 100%.

I understand the teaching. It's just that I have found no evidence that the Word which became Flesh didn't teach the true definition of sin in the Law and Prophets.

Lev. 19:
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.

Who can match the Love and Trust Abraham had for this Same God to kill his own son? You can say he didn't, but He did everything but stick the knife in that boy and would have if God had not stopped him.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Rom. 11:
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree,(Gentiles) wert graffed in among them,

and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


It's hard not to interpret this to mean we are not to "Walk even as Jesus walked".

Especially given His Holy Words. "For Salvation is of the Jews".

But like I said, I can show you the scripture, but religious traditions is hard to break away from. Especially of you don't really "believe" them.



It was the Law though, at least until the Seed came. Then He created a "better MINISTRY".



And he showed his belief by following the instructions of God as it is written.

Gen. 26:
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

It is this Faith that we seek after.



Thank God for His Mercy and for His Word. I have belief, but Lord God, help me in my unbelief..

11:17-21. In the apostolic generation God put aside as a whole the people of Israel, an action Paul described as one in which some of the branches have been broken off. The apostle then spoke directly to Gentile Christians: And you (sing.), though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root (lit., "have become a co-partner of the root of the fatness of the olive"). To be so blessed by God and His grace, however, is no reason to boast, which Paul warned against. Since they were like "a wild olive shoot" grafted to a regular cultivated olive tree, they were indebted to Israel, not Israel to them. "Salvation is from the Jews" (John 4:22).


The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

They typically make my head hurt

You ignored the obvious verse. A man who lays down His life for His friends is the greatest example of love. This is how Jesus loved His disciples.

Jesus said, "Come unto me and I will give you rest." This is the Gospel rest of which you speak and is open to all those who believe in Him and accept Him as their personal saviour. So first you speak of Gospel or spiritual rest and then you contradict yourself and spiritual rest becomes physical rest.

In point of fact Jesus, who is our example clearly showed us by working on the Sabbath Day as he did, that it is not physical rest, but spiritual rest that we receive when we come to Him.

You ignored the

The Rest to which Israel was to enter was the Gospel. This is testified via verses 1 and 2. If they and we enter into this rest; the Gospel GOD speaks of the Sabbath again; verses 3 and 4.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith ( Christ; the Word in our hearts and mouths; that is the Word of Faith in which we preach) in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest (the Gospel), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For HE spake in a certain place (Mt Sinai in the giving of the Commandments; because that is the instance to which GOD spoke of the Seventh Day) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again (HE speaks), If they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in (the Gospel) because of unbelief (rebellious hardhearted stiff necked disobedience): Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore (back to verses 3 and 4) a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from HIS ( on the Seventh Day because in this place again GOD speaks).

As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. We cease from work like GOD did. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual!
(Heb 4:1-10 KJV)
No contradiction. Two different rests being distinguished by two different Greek words. Sentence structure makes a distinction between the two also.

There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbatismo; a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (Kataplausis; the Gospel), he also hath ceases from his own works, as God did from HIS ( on the Seventh Day because in this place again GOD speaks)
Two different rests. The Gospel and a Sabbath keeping as was kept like GOD. If you follow the sentence structure you will notice a Sabbath keeping remains to the people of GOD. Those who have entered into there rest; the Gospel also cease from from their own works as GOD did from HIS.

As was said above As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. We cease from work like GOD did. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ LIKE WE DO. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual!

Jesus' work was a Spiritual work done to minister to others and further the Gospel. Not a physical work which purpose was for himself; a Spiritual one.

You ignored the obvious verse. A man who lays down His life for His friends is the greatest example of love. This is how Jesus loved His disciples.

The Rest to which Israel was to enter was the Gospel. This is testified via verses 1 and 2. If they and we enter into this rest; the Gospel GOD speaks of the Sabbath again; verses 3 and 4.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith ( Christ; the Word in our hearts and mouths; that is the Word of Faith in which we preach) in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest (the Gospel), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For HE spake in a certain place (Mt Sinai in the giving of the Commandments; because that is the instance to which GOD spoke of the Seventh Day) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again (HE speaks), If they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in (the Gospel) because of unbelief (rebellious hardhearted stiff necked disobedience): Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore (back to verses 3 and 4) a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from HIS ( on the Seventh Day because in this place again GOD speaks).

As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. We cease from work like GOD did. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual!
(Heb 4:1-10 KJV)
No contradiction. Two different rests being distinguished by two different Greek words. Sentence structure makes a distinction between the two also.

There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbatismo; a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (Kataplausis; the Gospel), he also hath ceases from his own works, as God did from HIS ( on the Seventh Day because in this place again GOD speaks)
Two different rests. The Gospel and a Sabbath keeping as was kept like GOD. If you follow the sentence structure you will notice a Sabbath keeping remains to the people of GOD. Those who have entered into there rest; the Gospel also cease from from their own works as GOD did from HIS.

As was said above As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. We cease from work like GOD did. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ LIKE WE DO. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual!

Jesus' work was a Spiritual work done to minister to others and further the Gospel. Not a physical work which purpose was for himself; a Spiritual one.

I figured out why your posts are so long. And nothing against you, but you reply to arguments that you create.

I didn’t say righteousness wasn’t taught in the OT. I said a greater requirement is placed on believers because Jesus is dealing with our hearts now.

And you’re seriously jumping over hoops to try to disagree with me.

It’s a simple fact that Jesus took the OT 10 Commandments and increased our observance to our heart motivations.

He showed them it wasn’t what went into a man, but what came out. He told them to even lust after a woman was sin. To even have anger or call a brother idiot is sin.

Your agenda is clear to me. You want the NT to be the kinda new because then you can use it to preach your observance of the Law. Because you keep the Sabbath.

But the OT and the NT are miles, miles, apart. We have a far better covenant and our righteousness is based on Christ 100%.

There are two rests. One is Sabbath rest, but there REMAINETH another rest (v9) which we as Christians are told to labour to enter into. The second rest is the rest that comes from our belief in God. The unbeliever, even if they religiously keep the 4th commandment, will not enter into the presence of God which is the second rest.

Heb 4:9-11 KJV There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (10) For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. (11) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

It is true that sabbatismos means Sabbath rest, but as Christians we need to look forward to that heavenly rest from our earthly toils and troubles. Please don't sell yourself and others short. We need to encourage each other to draw closer to God in love and adoration. The first rest is something we do, the second rest is God's gift to His people who worship Him in spirit and in truth that comes from the heart and is not earned by acts of law keeping.

1. a keeping Sabbath.

2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

https://biblehub.com/greek/4520.htm

Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else, in spite of the many references to Jews keeping the weekly Sabbath in the New Testament!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary on "Rest" proves the Sabbatarian argument wrong:

A2. KATAPAUSIS (2663), in classical Greek, denotes a causing to cease or putting to rest; in the N.T., rest, repose; it is used (a) of God's rest, Acts 7:49; Heb. 3:11, 18; 4:1, 3 (twice), R.V. (1st part), "that rest" (the A.V., "rest," is ambiguous), 5, 11; (b) in a general statement, applicable to God and man, 4:10.

A4. SABBATISMOS (4520), a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, 4:10, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into Divine rest, that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God.

And does disobedience and dishonor and iniquity come from within or without? Look Cee, I get it. You are all set. I just don't trust the doctrines of religious man, rather, as Jesus instructed. 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead

Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

As it is to this day.

Jesus did more than just let a bunch of self proclaimed "children of God" ridicule, discredit and kill Him because He gave them the truth of God's Word.

but religious traditions are hard to overcome.