Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
PS

PS

Senior Member
#69,141
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#69,141
star said:
Personally, I completely trust the work Jesus Christ did for me when I was 20 years old. While I seek to honor Him with good works, I know that I can never "out give" God.
Click to expand...
Hallelujah.

NEW LIFE
Jesus said: I am the way, the truth, and the life, (Joh 14:6 KJV)

He took our sins on himself, giving his body to be nailed on the tree, so that we, being dead to sin, might have a new life in righteousness, and by his wounds we have been made well. (1Pe 2:24 BBE)

BY
A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13 KJV)
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#69,142
Jan 18, 2011
12,394
6,734
113
#69,142
Studyman said:
Is there another Lord than the Lord of the Sabbath that we are to believe in?
Click to expand...
that is not the point. the point is, when John states the Commands we are to keep, he does not say to keep the Sabbath.

of course, since you mock the idea o being saved by believing in the name of the Son, you cannot grasp this concept, so you have to spin it.

need me to remind you of your words again? be glad to.
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#69,144
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#69,144
gb9 said:
that is not the point. the point is, when John states the Commands we are to keep, he does not say to keep the Sabbath.

of course, since you mock the idea o being saved by believing in the name of the Son, you cannot grasp this concept, so you have to spin it.

need me to remind you of your words again? be glad to.
Click to expand...
But is your Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath, or do you worship a different lord? How can you believe in the Lord of the Sabbath and not believe in His Sabbath?

I never mock anyone who believes in the Lord of the Sabbath.
 
Shamah

Shamah

Senior Member
#69,145
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#69,145
gb9 said:
many historians and scholars say that Israel came back to the promised land on the Babylonian calendar.

but, you see, this what you and the other Hebrew roots guys do- you drag everything back to the O.T., while we are saved by Faith in Christ, not by works , nor Sabbath keeping.
Click to expand...
Yes they did indeed use an altered calendar, the months and days stayed the same, the names of the months were changed and some of the calculations for keeping the Feast days altered the day that it was kept on, however if we look at the context in Daniel, he is talking about a much larger kingdom, a world ruling one and not all of the prophecy has been fufilled. Thus I dont think it has been all completed, it parallels with Revelation... There are possibilities and concerning prophecy it is good IMO to keep an open mind, but that group matchs the mos concerning the horn, the horns, the beasts, etc...

You are just making up false accusation in the second part. I could just as easily say you catholic roots people drag everything back to man made tradition.... Just to be clear I dont mean that Im just saying it to hopefully illustrate the level of sterotyping you are doing with just making claim and saying I do it. You cant qoute me saying what you say of me...
 
Shamah

Shamah

Senior Member
#69,146
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#69,146
gb9 said:
many interpretations say " at dawn on the first day of the week ". the greek word for dawn means dawn. the other Gospels say the women went the next morning.

so. no, Jesus did not resurrect on the Sabbath. this is just another way to bow down to the idol of Sabbath.
Click to expand...
Every text has them arrivening early the first day and Him being gone already... except for 11 verses that are know forgeries in Mark that contradict Mark 16:1-9....

truth or tradition....
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#69,147
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
#69,147
mailmandan said:
The old covenant has been made obsolete to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) and the life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He has loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments, which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on the Church under the New Covenant. It's as simple as that for me. ;)

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

More exhaustive list:

Matthew 2:2; 2:8; 2:11; 4:9; 4:10; 14:33; 15:9; 28:9; 28:17, Mark 7:7, Luke 4:7; 4:8; 24:52, John 4:20,21,22,23,24; 9:38; 12:20, Acts 7:43; 8:27; 16:14; 17:23; 18:7; 18:13; 19:27; 24:11, Romans 1:25; 12:1, 1 Corinthians 14:25, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:18, Hebrews 1:6; 9:1; 9:6; 10:2; 11:21, Revelation 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1; 11:16; 14:7; 15:4; 19:4; 19:10; 22:8; 22:9

Acts 15:20,29, Romans 1:25, 1 Corinthians 6:9; Chapter 8; 10:7,14; 12:2, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:9, Galatians 5:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14, 20; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15

Matthew 12:36, Ephesians 5:4, Romans 2:24, Revelation 16:9

Matthew 15:5, Matthew 19:19, Mark 7:10; 10:19, Luke 18:20, Ephesians 6:2

Matthew 5:21; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 1:29; 13:9, James 2:11

Matthew 5:27,28,32; 19:9,18, Mark 10:11,19, Luke 16:18; 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 2:11, 2 Peter 2:14

Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 2:21; 13:9, Ephesians 4:28

Matthew 15:9; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20

Mark 7:22, Luke 12:15, Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:5, 2 Peter 2:14
Click to expand...
Thank you Mailman, gb9, Decon and anyone else who would put the believer back under the yoke of "Law Keeping", Jesus did not abolish the "Law" He was the fulfillment of the "Law" and the realization of our sabbath rest.

Agreed gb9, to knowingly misinterpret God's word and mislead His Children is at the very least disrespectful to the reader.

gb9 said:
nice try at a spin, but negative result. as much as John talked about commands in this letter, he said the commands were to believe in the name of the Son and love one another. he never mentioned Sabbath. more false assuming in implying this is what he meant.
Click to expand...
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#69,148
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
#69,148
Maybe my post was not clear; thank you Mailman, gb9, and Decon to speak out and against those who would put believers back under the yoke of "Law Keeping", thank you and apologies for my senior moment....(y)

God bless!
 
Shamah

Shamah

Senior Member
#69,149
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#69,149
1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”



1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."



Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”



John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#69,150
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#69,150
Studyman said:
But is your Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath, or do you worship a different lord? How can you believe in the Lord of the Sabbath and not believe in His Sabbath?
Click to expand...
Studyman said:
I never mock anyone who believes in the Lord of the Sabbath.
Click to expand...

Jesus is Lord of the eternal Sabbath (sabbatismos) that is spoken of in Hebrews 4:9.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (Heb 4:9 KJV)
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#69,151
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#69,151
PS said:
Jesus is Lord of the eternal Sabbath that is spoken of in Hebrews 4:9.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (Heb 4:9 KJV)
Click to expand...
All I know is that when He declared being Lord even of the Sabbath, He was speaking of the Commandment which His Friends were accused of breaking. At least according to the Bible.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#69,152
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#69,152
Studyman said:
All I know is that when He declared being Lord even of the Sabbath, He was speaking of the Commandment which His Friends were accused of breaking. At least according to the Bible.
Click to expand...
Jesus is the Sabbath.

There is no salvation in a day.

Do not deify a day. That is paganism.
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#69,153
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#69,153
PS said:
Jesus is the Sabbath.

There is no salvation in a day.

Do not deify a day. That is paganism.
Click to expand...
I just don't believe that Jesus is Lord of Paganism. Or that Jesus followed Pagan celebrations like Venerable Day of the Sun, or Winter Solstice or All Saints Day, all popular celebrations in the religions of the world.

It is my understanding that when the Creator God of the universe creates a day, and sets it apart and makes it Holy, it then becomes Holy, not Pagan.

But we are all free to believe as we wish.
 
Shamah

Shamah

Senior Member
#69,154
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#69,154
PS said:
Jesus is the Sabbath.
Click to expand...
Sounds great but it is not Scriptual... Can y ou provide a Scripture?

Yahshua/Jesus 1,000 reigin is what the Sabbath represents...

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

Rev 20:4-6, “And I saw thrones – and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them – and the lives of those who had been beheaded because of the witness they bore to יהושע and because of the Word of the Mighty One, and who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not receive his mark upon their foreheads or upon their hands. And they lived and reigned with Messiah for a thousand years and the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended) – this is the first resurrection. Blessed and set-apart is the one having part in the first resurrection. The second death possesses no authority over these, but they shall be priests of יהוה and of Messiah, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

PS said:
There is no salvation in a day.
Click to expand...
True, who said there was...
ohh its a straw man I get it, you paint fallse accusation over anyone who believe the 4th Commandment is valid and you ard you kind circle the wagons...

PS said:
Do not deify a day. That is paganism.
Click to expand...
If I believe in "do not murder" am I deifying a Command?

Youre full of false accusations.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#69,155
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#69,155
Studyman said:
I just don't believe that Jesus is Lord of Paganism. Or that Jesus followed Pagan celebrations like Venerable Day of the Sun, or Winter Solstice or All Saints Day, all popular celebrations in the religions of the world.

It is my understanding that when the Creator God of the universe creates a day, and sets it apart and makes it Holy, it then becomes Holy, not Pagan.

But we are all free to believe as we wish.
Click to expand...
The consequence of following pagan customs, as they did, meant that a New Covenant with the people was required to replace the Old Covenant had decayed and was ready to vanish away. (v13) That was 2000 years ago. As people still follow that which has decayed, then verses 10 and 11 do not apply to those who continue under the Old Covenant, for clearly God's laws have not been written into their minds or on their hearts as verse 10 says God would do. It follows therefore that God is not their God, neither are they the Lord's people, but rather are like the Pharisees who Jesus said were children of the devil.

Heb 8:8-13 KJV
(8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
(9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
(10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
(12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
(13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
 
50C1AL0N3

50C1AL0N3

Member
#69,156
May 20, 2018
225
117
43
Ohio
#69,156
Boy this debate is carrying on and on. Eternal life was decided for all written in the book of life somewhere in eternity past before I existed. Christ has authority over all things. Except to get us to heaven, so since my savior is weak and incapable, I will work my way up to heaven. That's about freaking ignorant sounding.
 
Shamah

Shamah

Senior Member
#69,157
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#69,157
Shamah said:
My Messiah freed me from bondage to sin not from His Instructions...
Click to expand...
dcontroversal said:
And you constantly say something and then deceptively twist it into something else....Let s evaluate your words and see how deceptive you really are....man what a deceptive Pharisee

YOU said....
Shamah said:
My Messiah freed me from bondage to sin not from His Instructions...

and then changed it to....

Is not being in bondage to sin mean I never sin? No it means sin does not rule over me, sin does not drive me and I do not live continually in a state of sin

FROM SIN NOT = NEVER SIN to I do not live in a continual state of SIN....

You are very, very deceptive in the way you say things and then when busted on it twist it to say something ENTIRELY different.
Click to expand...
after looking at this again, wow your are such a accusing deceiver.

look at it:

Shamah said:
My Messiah freed me from bondage to sin not from His Instructions...
Click to expand...
lets say for a second I was saying "sin not" I wan not but lets say...

LOOK AT THE CONTEXT!!!

"bondage to sin not""?


If I was saying sin not, I would then be calling it bondage to sin not.... NOT SINNING IS NOT BONDAGE...

That really shows you deceptive will DC we may disagree on a lot but this one is something else...

my Messiah freed me from bondage to sin, not from His Instrucations...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#69,158
#69,158
Shamah said:
after looking at this again, wow your are such a accusing deceiver.

look at it:



lets say for a second I was saying "sin not" I wan not but lets say...

LOOK AT THE CONTEXT!!!

"bondage to sin not""?


If I was saying sin not, I would then be calling it bondage to sin not.... NOT SINNING IS NOT BONDAGE...

That really shows you deceptive will DC we may disagree on a lot but this one is something else...

my Messiah freed me from bondage to sin, not from His Instrucations...
Click to expand...
I think you do not understand the law.

If the law demands perfection, and you are under law, your still under bondage, as long as you still sin, which you admit you do, the law condemns you, because you have failed to live up to its standars (even james said if we break one command, your guilty)

So saying you must obey the law is saying your bound by the law to obey it, meaning you are under bondage.
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#69,159
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#69,159
PS said:
The consequence of following pagan customs, as they did, meant that a New Covenant with the people was required to replace the Old Covenant had decayed and was ready to vanish away. (v13) That was 2000 years ago. As people still follow that which has decayed, then verses 10 and 11 do not apply to those who continue under the Old Covenant, for clearly God's laws have not been written into their minds or on their hearts as verse 10 says God would do. It follows therefore that God is not their God, neither are they the Lord's people, but rather are like the Pharisees who Jesus said were children of the devil.

Heb 8:8-13 KJV
(8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
(9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
(10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
(12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
(13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Click to expand...
I agree with you that those who people in whose heart God has written His Laws, will not live in opposition to them.

The Levitical Priesthood had corrupted God's Laws for centuries. It was this Priesthood which was in charge in giving the people God's instructions.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

This is the Old Covenant that the Word promised to replace with a New Covenant.

For finding fault with THEM, not God's Righteous, Good, Just and Holy Commandments that they refuse to teach.

No more do we receive God's instructions through carnal deceitful religious men. But directly from the Word of God, the Messiah Himself.

No more do we rely on these same corrupt individuals to perform sacrificial "works of the Law" for atonement of sins. The Messiah Himself with forgive our sins.

But for the Christ to become God's High Priest, there is necessity also a change in the Law. Because only a Levite could, under God's Law, become a High Priest. So this Law was changed as it is written.

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; (Not Levi) of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

It is this Priesthood and it's sacrificial "Works of the Law" for atonement of sins which was decayed, and ready to vanish.

Not the Righteous Commands of God, but the way in which these commands were administered.

Nor more animal Blood and "deeds" of the Levitical Priesthood, but a "NEW Ministry" in which the High Priests shed His own Blood once and for all to atone for sins.

This is the New Covenant, at least according to the Bible.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#69,160
#69,160
mailmandan said:
Who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 12? He was rebuking the Pharisees who accused the disciples of doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath. This has nothing to do with commanding the Church under the new covenant to keep the Sabbath day (under the old covenant) with all it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31).

In Colossians 2:16, (under the new covenant) Paul clearly states - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. NOWHERE under the new covenant is the Church commanded to keep the Sabbath day and that is good enough for me. (y)

If you wish to seek to keep the Sabbath day, then be my guest, as long as you understand it's not a salvation issue.
Click to expand...

well said
 
You must log in or register to reply here.