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Shamah

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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VCO said:
You have NOT answered my question on Born Again. Which means, You do not know how to tell if you really have been Born Again, and you have been disobedient to these Verses:

Hebrews 10:25 (NRSV)
25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

Ephesians 4:11-13 (HCSB)
11 And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, ⌊growing⌋ into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.


You even CALLED the FACT that the Human Spirit is DEAD until we are Born Again, INCORRECT QUOTE. Until you let that Holy Spirit into your HEART, because it is at that Time HE will birth your once DEAD SPIRIT into Eternal Life, and He will Pour God's Love directly into your heart, and He will IMMERSE you into the spiritual Body of Christ. You obviously do not know a thing about me. I am not talking about a feel good feeling, which I assume you mean a Charismatic Experience. SURPRISE, I am not Charismatic, and most here are Not Charismatic either. I do not believe in their feel good feeling either. I BELIEVE and TEACH A INNER, REAL PERSONAL, LOVE RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ HIMSELF. That is what I call BORN AGAIN. You rejected the TRUTH, out of ignorance, assuming that the Feel Good Feeling was what most churches meant by Born Again. Not Even Close, and only a few Churches would even believe that the Feel Good Feeling, was what Born Again means.

Now just so you know, the Human Spirit was BORN DEAD, because of the inherited SIN NATURE from Adam. Don't believe that too, well let me show it to you from Scripture:


1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NASB)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.


BODY is the sum total of all the cells of the body than you can look at with a microscope.

Now SOUL is all the Intangible parts that are not body, but they are still there: Thoughts, Memories, Emotions, Feelings, Psyche, Cognitive Abilities, Spark of Life, etc. In other words all parts of a human being that is alive at Natural Birth, but cannot be seen with a microscope. GUESS what the original Greek word for SOUL is? It is psychē, believe it or not. And here is JESUS referring to the Human Brain as SOUL:

Luke 12:19 (KJV)
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.

Now we come to the human SPIRIT, and you just read it must be Born of the Holy Spirit. Hence because it is not ALIVE at Natural Birth, IT MUST BE BORN AGAIN, and once it is Born Again, it will have Eternal Life. It will be like you have two MINDS, when it is Born Again. The Mind of Flesh between your ears, is only concerned about the Flesh. However the Mind in YOUR HEART, is in tune with
GOD's will. The Spiritual Mind will as it matures on the feeding of the WORD, become Dominant over the Mind of the Flesh between your ears.

How do we prove the Human Spirit was once DEAD?


Colossians 2:13 (NASB)
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,


Now you KNOW that your Body and Soul were alive at Natural Birth, so what part of YOU was NOT alive?

This is from the New Century Version, that makes it more understandable.


Colossians 2:13 (NCV)
13 When you were spiritually dead because of your sins and because you were not free from the power of your sinful self, God made you alive with Christ, and he forgave all our sins.


MORE PROOF:


1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.


I am not sure you can understand this, and in fact you may think it is all foolishness:


1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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Sure. yes tell me I dont have the Spirit of YHWH in me, becuae you actually know right...

Except none have been born again yet because it is recieveing a spirit body... thus "that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit"

John 3:3-6, “Yahshua answered, and said to him: Truly, truly, I say to you: Unless a man is reborn from above, he cannot see the Kingdom of YHWH. Nicodemus said to Him; How can a man be reborn when he is old? Can he enter the womb of his mother the second time, and be born? Yahshua answered: Truly, truly, I say to you: “Unless a man is begotten of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of YHWH. That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; but that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.”

do you have a spirit body?

this passage explains it well:

1 Peter 1:3-9, “Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a deliverance (salvation) ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of יהושע Messiah, whom having not seen, you love; in whom you exult with unspeakable and esteemed joy, yet not seeing, but believing, obtaining the goal of your belief: a deliverance of lives.”

and what most people think is "born again" is this

Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

but since most people hate the law they need to make up their own meaning...
 
Shamah

Shamah

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#69,602
Shamah said:
Here is Scriptureal example of no faith and disobedience being seen as one in the same:

Hebrews 3:16-19, “For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”

Hebrews 4:2, “For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed.”
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mailmandan said:
Sound familiar? :unsure:
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mailmandan said:
Like I said before, disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief and obedience is a manifestation of belief--yet still not sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time. You error by basically defining unbelief "as" disobedience and belief "as" obedience/works.
... Sound familiar? :unsure:
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Funny how you are repeating what I just said then telling me I said something different and Im in error...
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#69,603
Shamah said:
Well Paul says it correctly in the passage you quoted "at the last trumpet"

That is when one is "born again" they recieve an eternal spirit body and recieve salvation entrance into the kingdom. As it say "call on His name and you will be saved" We might be sealed to be saved but this is when the salvation actually happens...
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why does the scripture say "He has saved" us in past tense if the truth is that it is only a possibility of the future?

2 Timothy 1:9-10
He has saved us and called us to a holy life — not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#69,604
Shamah said:
do you have a spirit body?
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lol is there any such thing as a spirit body..?

He ate a fish to prove to them that His body was not a spirit. we will be literally resurrected, and these tents will be changed, to be as His.
 
Shamah

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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#69,605
posthuman said:
why does the scripture say "He has saved" us in past tense if the truth is that it is only a possibility of the future?

2 Timothy 1:9-10
He has saved us and called us to a holy life — not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
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here is the same greek word used in future tense:

Matthew 9:21 V-FIP-1S
GRK: ἱματίου αὐτοῦ σωθήσομαι
NAS: touch His garment, I will get well.
KJV: his garment, I shall be whole.
INT: clothing of him I will be cured

so if we are honest about language that verse you posted it not proof.

I say we look to all the verses on the matter and form a picture from that. This I have done. I find 1 Peter 1 to be the most descriptive. He says basically it is reserved for us in the heavens and we will recieve it when Yashua returns...

1 Peter 1:3-9, “Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a deliverance (salvation) ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of יהושע Messiah, whom having not seen, you love; in whom you exult with unspeakable and esteemed joy, yet not seeing, but believing, obtaining the goal of your belief: a deliverance of lives.”



look at Yahshua;s words:

Mat:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."

If you think you have a eternal spirit body now then I dont know what to say...

Hebrews 9:27-28, “And as it awaits men to die once, and after this the judgment, so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to those waiting for Him, unto salvation.”
 
Shamah

Shamah

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#69,606
posthuman said:
lol is there any such thing as a spirit body..?

He ate a fish to prove to them that His body was not a spirit. we will be literally resurrected, and these tents will be changed, to be as His.
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Maybe that is not the best wat to explain it, but from my studies it is the most accuartre way I have found because this:

John 3:3-6, “Yahshua answered, and said to him: Truly, truly, I say to you: Unless a man is reborn from above, he cannot see the Kingdom of YHWH. Nicodemus said to Him; How can a man be reborn when he is old? Can he enter the womb of his mother the second time, and be born? Yahshua answered: Truly, truly, I say to you: “Unless a man is begotten of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of YHWH. That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; but that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.”

" that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit."

if you are not spirit you have not yet been born of the spirit...

1 Peter 1:3-9, “... born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you,"

Paul correctly describes it IMO here:

1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”
 
S

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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#69,607
VCO said:
Here is your FIRST MISTAKE.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


That Baptism has NOTHING TO DO WITH WATER.

That is a Reference to the Holy Spirit IMMERSING us into the Spritiual Body of Christ, which happens at the moment you are BORN AGAIN.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (NKJV)
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body,
so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.


ALL WOULD INCLUDE: THE THIEF ON THE CROSS, ALL DEATHBED CONFESSIONS, INMATES IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT OR THE SECURITY HOUSING UNIT, DYING BEFORE YOU CAN GET BAPTIZED, AND ALL SEVERELY HANDICAP PEOPLE THAT WOULD ENDANGER THE HEALTH TO BAPTIZE THEM IN WATER.

BAPTIZING THEM IN WATER WOULD EXCLUDE, ALL FIVE GROUPS ABOVE, AND HE COULD NOT SAY ALL.
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I was answering your question.


Do you Believe you are ETERNALLY SAVED, the VERY DAY YOU FIRST GENUINELY BELIEVED?

OR Do you believe you are Genuine SAVED AFTER you have enough examples of Works?

OR Do you believe you are NOT Genuinely SAVED until the END of your life so you can be Judged?
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"No. I don't believe the scriptures support your religious doctrine that I am bestowed immortality the moment I believe Jesus is the Son of God. satan also "GENUINELY BELIEVES" believes Jesus is the Son of God. So did Judas. So did those in Matt. 7 who call Him Lord, Lord."

Your use of this one scripture doesn't change you question, or the answer I gave.
 
S

Studyman

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posthuman said:
that's not omitted. it's what the people were referring to when they said 'we have sinned'

I'm talking about Christ. but you're not.
you just love better to argue, and the Bible also talks about people like that. have you studied it, perhaps?
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I'm talking about the Christ of the Bible. You are not.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 
S

Studyman

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posthuman said:
they confessed their sin and asked for an intercessor.
they got one.
then, AFTER THAT God told Moses to make the brazen serpent, lift it up on a piece of wood, and that all who did nothing more than look to it would be healed. amen and it is so.

don't rewrite the Scripture to fit what you want it to say, dude. that doesn't count as 'study' and it's incredibly unwise.
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Num. 21:
7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.

8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

Did Moses "look on it for them", were they "saved by their works"?


What happened to those who didn't obey? Do they still live in your religion? How did I re-write the scripture you who judge others and do the same.
 
Cee

Cee

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#69,610
Shamah said:
Well Paul says it correctly in the passage you quoted "at the last trumpet"

That is when one is "born again" they recieve an eternal spirit body and recieve salvation entrance into the kingdom. As it say "call on His name and you will be saved" We might be sealed to be saved but this is when the salvation actually happens...
Click to expand...
We are delivered in Spirit, being delivered in soul, but the body is delivered later.
 
VCO

VCO

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Studyman said:
No. I don't believe the scriptures support your religious doctrine that I am bestowed immortality the moment I believe Jesus is the Son of God. satan also "GENUINELY BELIEVES" believes Jesus is the Son of God. So did Judas. So did those in Matt. 7 who call Him Lord, Lord.

Matt. 24:
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rom. 11:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved

Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.


Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 Cor. 15:
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

I believe this is the very reason the Christ, as the Word of God, shared the Eve and the Serpent story. To show us that the Serpent will use "some of God's Word" to deceive man into believing we are already immortal, that we are "already Saved". As it is written, "Peace, Peace, when there is no peace.

The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's Time also believed they were "saved". but as it is written.

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
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I NOTICED YOU AVOIDED MY QUESTIONS.

John 10:26-30 (HCSB)
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”
 
PS

PS

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#69,612
Studyman said:
I'm talking about the Christ of the Bible. You are not.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
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That was way back in the beginning, long before Abraham and Moses. That is why Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega.

It is a shame the Jewish writers turned their fellow countrymen's eyes onto mere mortals like the afore mentioned, and made them into some sort of heroes. Then they turned their own people's eyes away from the Creator, the Word made flesh, and made Him into a stumbling stone. Without their intervention Jews would be worshipping the true God now and this conversation would not be happening.
 
S

Studyman

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posthuman said:
why does the scripture say "He has saved" us in past tense if the truth is that it is only a possibility of the future?

2 Timothy 1:9-10
He has saved us and called us to a holy life — not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
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Rom. 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom. 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, (ALIVE) and not in the oldness of the letter. (DEAD in our sins)

A dead man can SERVE no one. We are freed from "DEATH", our penalty wiped clean, se we can "SERVE HIM" this time and not our own mind and religious traditions.

Now that we are "ALIVE" and FREED FROM DEATH" Paul says this:

Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service

It's no big deal to follow God over the religions of the land. "It is simply our reasonable service since God Himself paid for our sins.

Now we strive to Love the Lord our God with ALL our might, with all our soul, the first and Greatest Commandment.

Are faith will be tested, the serpent, disguised as Ministers of Righteousness, will try and convince us "we are saved" already, and that God's Laws are unjust, and that Jesus came, not to free us from death as Paul teaches, but to free us from Almighty God's instructions.

Just as the Word which became Flesh showed us in the very beginning.

But if we don't listen to the other voices, and only those word's inspired by God, not just the ones the serpent used "Hath not God said", but EVERY WORD of God.

Eph. 6:
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
 
Cee

Cee

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Rom. 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Our old man is crucified with him.

It's already been done. So now we can live with Him in newness of spirit.

Yes, our body is being delivered, but we are a three part being.

Spirit (Done)
Soul (Being Done)
Body (Will Be Done)

The Kingdom of God is invading through our spirit and His Spirit joined together, renewing our mind, and at the last trump our bodies will be made glorious.
 
BillG

BillG

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Cee said:
Rom. 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Our old man is crucified with him.

It's already been done. So now we can live with Him in newness of spirit.

Yes, our body is being delivered, but we are a three part being.

Spirit (Done)
Soul (Being Done)
Body (Will Be Done)

The Kingdom of God is invading through our spirit and His Spirit joined together, renewing our mind, and at the last trump our bodies will be made glorious.
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Good post Cee.

I always enjoy reading your posts.

Your response may raise questions concerning spirit and soul.
And see them as one and and some them as two.

I'm not sure my question here is relevant but I'm going to ask anyway because I'm confused by it and I think it relates to spirit and soul.

I'm confused by it when it comes to our nature.
Is the spirit and soul our nature, ie one?

When we come to Jesus do we have a dual nature or a single one?
This may seem a odd question but it is one that perplexes me.
 
S

Studyman

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VCO said:
I NOTICED YOU AVOIDED MY QUESTIONS.

John 10:26-30 (HCSB)
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”
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I believe what the Word which became Flesh teaches, I just don't believe what you preach. I don't believe you are immortal, and I don't believe your understanding of this one verse erases all the scriptures I posted to answer your question.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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posthuman said:
they confessed their sin and asked for an intercessor.
they got one.
then, AFTER THAT God told Moses to make the brazen serpent, lift it up on a piece of wood, and that all who did nothing more than look to it would be healed. amen and it is so.

don't rewrite the Scripture to fit what you want it to say, dude. that doesn't count as 'study' and it's incredibly unwise.
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His modus operandi........like with 95% of what he pushes.......almost a waste of time to engage....
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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posthuman said:
why does the scripture say "He has saved" us in past tense if the truth is that it is only a possibility of the future?

2 Timothy 1:9-10
He has saved us and called us to a holy life — not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
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He is one of a handful that rejects the absolute truth that salvation is a current possession with present continuing results....and spoken of in all three tenses......

a. Was saved eternally the mico second I believed
b. Am saved eternally right now
c Continuing to be saved eternally into the future

SEALED unto the day of redemption!
 
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