Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Good post Cee.

I always enjoy reading your posts.

Your response may raise questions concerning spirit and soul.
And see them as one and and some them as two.

I'm not sure my question here is relevant but I'm going to ask anyway because I'm confused by it and I think it relates to spirit and soul.

I'm confused by it when it comes to our nature.
Is the spirit and soul our nature, ie one?

When we come to Jesus do we have a dual nature or a single one?
This may seem a odd question but it is one that perplexes me.



No Bill they are not the same thing. Look at the NASB on this verse:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NASB)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 3:6 (NASB)
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Jesus clearly referred to the Mortal Carnal Mind as SOUL:


Luke 12:19 (KJV)
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.


Then there is this Verse, that should be the coup de grâce.


Hebrews 4:12 (NASB)
12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.


In case you did not notice, HE JUST DID IT WITH HIS WORD.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
25,910
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speak against obedience to His Commands

who says '
be disobedient!' ??

there is another member here who told me during the past week that wearing tzitzit on ones garments is commanded to all believers.
do you agree with him?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,119
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yes, amen, surely the Living God is faithful to complete what He begins, and He produces good works in the person who puts their trust in Him!

there are now over 3,400 pages in this thread full of people swatting away that very same strawman argument -- the one that goes,
'
you believe salvation is by grace alone, therefore you preach the saved are void of works'

does it mean you will quit with the walls of antagonistic text now that you have come to understand this? :D
NEVER....I am DAVID and I am controversial HAHAHHA and will ALWAYS stir the pot until the sun goes dark, the stars fall from the sky and the moon does not give her light.....I am a MARINE at heart and will defend the truth until the gates of hell are welded shut and cast into the lake of fire......... ;)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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I do not normally do this because I cannot stand links that "BIND UP" a thread.....but this song rocks and really makes me think of the end of the age.............Seek the Lord while he may be found.....one day soon time is up!

 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
25,910
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NEVER....I am DAVID and I am controversial HAHAHHA and will ALWAYS stir the pot until the sun goes dark, the stars fall from the sky and the moon does not give her light.....I am a MARINE at heart and will defend the truth until the gates of hell are welded shut and cast into the lake of fire......... ;)
haha bro i meant Seoche
you keep doing what you're doing :)

Now Samson lay until midnight, and at midnight he arose and took hold of the doors of the city gate and the two posts and pulled them up along with the bars; then he put them on his shoulders and carried them up to the top of the mountain which is opposite Hebron.
(Judges 16:3)

on His back, strong
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,119
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haha bro i meant Seoche
you keep doing what you're doing :)

Now Samson lay until midnight, and at midnight he arose and took hold of the doors of the city gate and the two posts and pulled them up along with the bars; then he put them on his shoulders and carried them up to the top of the mountain which is opposite Hebron.
(Judges 16:3)

on His back, strong
Samson...his name in Hebrew carried the idea of a shooting star....comes on fast, burns bright but snuffed out quickly....could have been one of the best judges of Israel, but blew it......I love that verse you quoted..........a real bad ---.................................................too bad the Philistines plowed with his "heifer"
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
25,910
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Samson...his name in Hebrew carried the idea of a shooting star....comes on fast, burns bright but snuffed out quickly....could have been one of the best judges of Israel, but blew it......I love that verse you quoted..........a real bad ---.................................................too bad the Philistines plowed with his "heifer"
too bad for the Philistines - imagine the state of the garments he brought them. cleaned and pressed? i think, a pile soaked in blood.

and this guy, he's on the 'heroes of faith all-star list' !

And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets . .
(Hebrews 11:32)
reminds me of how our garments were washed :)
KING OF KINGS
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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and this guy, he's on the 'heroes of faith all-star list' !

And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets . .
(Hebrews 11:32)
EXACTLY and God honored his wish to kill himself and take out 7000 Philistine Lords in the process.......no one will ever convince me he was lost....ever.....a prime example, as David was, of a saved sinner that fell short in his life, yet a man of faith....like many of us.....!
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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who says 'be disobedient!' ??

there is another member here who told me during the past week that wearing tzitzit on ones garments is commanded to all believers.
do you agree with him?
I think none of the Law is "done away":

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

I have to add Yahshua gave Himself as the sacrifice and He is High priest, so to sacrifice is to accept Him and His work as Passover Lamb.

I believe that yes it is right to do for Hebrew or (former) Gentile that are grafted into Yah's people, however not doing it is not a "sin unto death" as there are much weighter matters of the Law, doing that one while not loving is falsehood, doing that one and all the others is the best way... Just so you know the tzit-zit are a reminder of YHWH and His ways. I find it funny that people have no problem with wearing a cross but freak out at doing things the way He actually says....

Mat 23:23, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you tithe the mint and the anise and the cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the Torah: the right-ruling and the compassion and the belief. These need to have been done, without neglecting the others.”

I think they are wonderful, it reminds me of YHWH;s Law and this:

Matthew 9:20-22, “And see, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the tzitzit of His garment. For she said to herself, “If I only touch His garment, I shall be healed.” But יהושע turned, and when He saw her He said, “Take courage, daughter, your belief has healed you.” And the woman was healed from that hour.”

Matthew 14:35-36, “And when the men of that place recognized Him, they sent out into all that surrounding country, and brought to Him all who were sick, and begged Him to let them only touch the tzitzit of His garment. And as many as touched it were completely healed.”

Malachi 4:2, “But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall.”

John 5:14, “Afterward יהושע found him in the Set-apart Place, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, so that no worse matter befalls you.”

Numbers 15:38-41, “Speak to the children of Yisra’yl, and you shall say to them to make tzitzit on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue cord in the tzitzit of the corners. And it shall be to you for a tzitzit, and you shall see it, and shall remember all the commands of יהוה and shall do them, and not search after your own heart and your own eyes after which you went whoring, "so that you remember, and shall do all My commands, and be set-apart unto your Mighty One. I am יהוה your Mighty One, who brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim, to be your Mighty One. I am יהוה your Mighty One.”
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
25,910
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I believe that yes it is right to do for Hebrew or (former) Gentile that are grafted into Yah's people, however not doing it is not a "sin unto death" as there are much weighter matters of the Law
but still a sin not to wear tzitzit? wickedness?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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The law was until....

a. The end of the age
b. Jesus gave up the Ghost
c. Until we decide
d. UNTIL JOHN

Fairly clear D is the answer...........those who push the law have no understanding that it is for the LAWLESS who are LOST and it's purpose is to POINT TO THE CURE which is faith ins JESUS....

THOSE who exercise SAVING FAITH are POSITIONALLY JUSTIFIED and SANCTIFIED in CHRIST having the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST ETERNALLY APPLIED BY FAITH WITHOUT the LAW...the SAME righteousness which SATISFIES the requirements of the LAW...

IT is not that difficult to understand!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,399
3,254
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MAN....gotta appreciate a good lap top......got one screen open reading and responding in cc and another one open to Youtube jamming Joe Satriani tunes hahahha the whole time secure in my salvation because JESUS paid the price, sustains me, promises to keep me by his power, covers me with his blood, will never leave me nor forsake me, saved me to the uttermost, has eternally justified me, holds me in his hand, seals me with his Spirit, will not lose one thing and if I wander too far will leave the 99 and come find me.....HE will finish what he started and he cannot deny himself....

ALL GLORY to Christ and OUR HEAVENLY FATHER.....
Yes, I do the same thing, but I live in the big City of Lincoln, Ne. and here the internet download speed is 100 Mbps on Spectrum, how ever, I am going to switch to a new internet provider, called ALLO, a local Internet Provider, as soon as they go on line. They Claim they will have ALL under ground fiber optics, all the way to your house, and their starting speed is 300 Mbps, and they are $5.00 cheaper than Spectrum.

For those who think I am exaggerating, here is their add.

https://www.allocommunications.com/locations/lincoln/
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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MAN....gotta appreciate a good lap top......got one screen open reading and responding in cc and another one open to Youtube jamming Joe Satriani tunes hahahha the whole time secure in my salvation because JESUS paid the price, sustains me, promises to keep me by his power, covers me with his blood, will never leave me nor forsake me, saved me to the uttermost, has eternally justified me, holds me in his hand, seals me with his Spirit, will not lose one thing and if I wander too far will leave the 99 and come find me.....HE will finish what he started and he cannot deny himself....

ALL GLORY to Christ and OUR HEAVENLY FATHER.....
1 john 2
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word,love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

ephesians 5
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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but still a sin not to wear tzitzit? wickedness?
Of course it is. Anything that is against His Instructions is sin...

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."

Also any who are a part of the covenant are under the same Instructions, there is no Jews have to be good and Gentiles can be baby demons... Again this is not one of the weightier matters of the Law nor is it a sin unto death...

Isaiah 56:7, “Them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

These passages show "grafted" in gentiles are the same as native born Israelites... If they are not then Gentiles have no part in the Covenat: (they do partake in the covenant if they accept Yahshua, Im just illustrating)

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people.”
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,119
17,460
113
Yes, I do the same thing, but I live in the big City of Lincoln, Ne. and here the internet download speed is 100 Mbps on Spectrum, how ever, I am going to switch to a new internet provider, called ALLO, a local Internet Provider, as soon as they go on line. They Claim they will have ALL under ground fiber optics, all the way to your house, and their starting speed is 300 Mbps, and they are $5.00 cheaper than Spectrum.

For those who think I am exaggerating, here is their add.

https://www.allocommunications.com/locations/lincoln/
I live off grid in Mark Twain National Forest in Missouri and 25 to 30 miles from the nearest town and a cable.....I have Sat. internet with unlimited gigs and right now have two laptops running, cell phone with internet and both laptops are downloading videos and surfing the web at the same time......VIA SAT and do not know the speed, but I have the biggest wifi and when my brother and friends are here they are on as well....I also have a regular phone connected......like 130 or so a month......
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,399
3,254
113
I live off grid in Mark Twain National Forest in Missouri and 25 to 30 miles from the nearest town and a cable.....I have Sat. internet with unlimited gigs and right now have two laptops running, cell phone with internet and both laptops are downloading videos and surfing the web at the same time......VIA SAT and do not know the speed, but I have the biggest wifi and when my brother and friends are here they are on as well....I also have a regular phone connected......like 130 or so a month......

Mine is going to cost $145, but it is still $5 cheaper than Spectrum.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
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Of course it is. Anything that is against His Instructions is sin...

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."

Also any who are a part of the covenant are under the same Instructions, there is no Jews have to be good and Gentiles can be baby demons... Again this is not one of the weightier matters of the Law nor is it a sin unto death...

Isaiah 56:7, “Them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

These passages show "grafted" in gentiles are the same as native born Israelites... If they are not then Gentiles have no part in the Covenat: (they do partake in the covenant if they accept Yahshua, Im just illustrating)

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people.”
It's ironic you're using those Scriptures in 1 John to show our need for the Law, because they were spoken to lead people to Jesus for freedom.

It's also interesting you don't mention: Anything not of faith is sin.

Also the only mention I've seen from you about the Spirit is that the "Spirit of God wouldn't cause us to not follow His Law".

Yet Scripture teaches the ministry of death, Mosaic Law, passed away so the glorious ministry of the Spirit could come.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
687
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It's ironic you're using those Scriptures in 1 John to show our need for the Law, because they were spoken to lead people to Jesus for freedom.

It's also interesting you don't mention: Anything not of faith is sin.

Also the only mention I've seen from you about the Spirit is that the "Spirit of God wouldn't cause us to not follow His Law".

Yet Scripture teaches the ministry of death, Mosaic Law, passed away so the glorious ministry of the Spirit could come.
Freedom from sin not freedom from the Creators Instructions... maybe you twist Paul's words, as in 2 Peter...

The Messiah sys the Law will not pass

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says יהוה: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them.”

Revelation 15:3, “And they sing the song of Mosheh the servant of יהוה, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and marvelous are Your works, יהוה Strength Almighty! Righteous and true are Your ways, O Sovereign of the set-apart ones!”

Isaiah 8:20, "To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
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Freedom from sin not freedom from the Creators Instructions... maybe you twist Paul's words, as in 2 Peter...

The Messiah sys the Law will not pass

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says יהוה: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them.”

Revelation 15:3, “And they sing the song of Mosheh the servant of יהוה, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and marvelous are Your works, יהוה Strength Almighty! Righteous and true are Your ways, O Sovereign of the set-apart ones!”

Isaiah 8:20, "To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."
No I don't. But you are twisting the words, "Law, Commands, and Instructions." Using them interchangeably. And ignoring Scripture that disagrees with you. Like always you just don't address Scripture that completely disagrees with you. Do you think this is honest and fair for students you're teaching who don't know better? I do know better. But I'm not sure if you do yet.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
687
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No I don't. But you are twisting the words, "Law, Commands, and Instructions." Using them interchangeably. And ignoring Scripture that disagrees with you. Like always you just don't address Scripture that completely disagrees with you. Do you think this is honest and fair for students you're teaching who don't know better? I do know better. But I'm not sure if you do yet.
I know what Torah, entole, and nomia is. I study the hebrew, aramaic, greek, I consult the septuagint for how words were translated by the learned of that time and I know all of Scripture very well, just because I dont see things from the same doctrine as you does not mean I ignore Scripture. Honestly could I not say the same for you?

I will tell you this, Yahshua is my Master, I do not let ANYONE get in between me and Him. As certian men have crept in, men that disagreed with Yaaqob (James) Messiah;s brother... spouters of lies if you will. The Messiah said His words would not pass and YHWH said Yahshua is THE PROPHET we must hear and obey. This is the path I seek. This is the doctrine I hold.