12 Signs You Are A Modern-Day Pharisee

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#61
#61
RickyZ said:
Check posts 16 and 18. Also Dcon's and Ralph's posts. They can't help themselves :)
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#16
Lucian_Hodoboc said:
Why are they mutually exclusive? Do the goats get sent to the eternal fire for not believing in Him or for not having works? Did the rich man get sent to the place of torture for not believing in Jesus or for having enjoyed his riches without caring for other people (Lazarus)'s sufferings? Did the Samaritan help the robbed man because he believed in Jesus or because he listened to the kindness placed by God in his heart? Did Jesus not tell the rich young man that, in order to be perfect, he has to keep the commandments, sell his possessions, give the money to the poor and follow Him? Did Jesus tell him to only follow him? No. The part about helping others (works) is important.
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#18
CS1 said:
you have cart before the horse .

if one is saved, they will produce good works of Christ because Christ has changed them. anyone can do a good deed but they do it for many reasons . The motivation of one who is saved to do a good deed is out of love for God. I do what Jesus said to do because I love Him and He loves me. No amount of good works can repay what Jesus did on the Cross for me. You too are taking the word of God out of Context.
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Nope/ do not see the word OSAS,

I am not sure what post you saw DC say OSAS. But I can’t find it.

And ralph? Who is he, the only Ralph I know I had on ignore.. is he still here? If he is, I have not seen anythign he has said on along time, He is not supporting OSAS now is he??
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#62
#62
MattforJesus said:
A lot of people do not get that for without works of the Spirit then faith does not apply in our life, which Paul said they are nothing, and James said their faith is dead, and John said the love of God does not dwell in them, which all 3 of them pointed out charity, love in action, and to help those in need if they can.

But we see many people that lack works thinking it has no bearing on their salvation, but then that means they are not led of the Spirit, and Jesus addressed 2 Churches in Revelation according to their works, and said the first Church left their first love, and to repent and do those works, and the fifth Church He said that their works were not found perfect before God, and to repent and do those works or they would have no salvation.

And where they lack the most is loving money, and material things, for their wants, which the Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, which is the way God created the earth to operate and that is according to loving people, and love is the fulfilling of the law.
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Alot of people do not get what when we are talling about salvation. The only works that matters are the works of God. As our works are filthy rags.

A sign of a pharisee is that they always focus on a persons works or his self righteousness Not the work of God.

A child of God works because he has faith (true faith produces works) you will never hear a true grace believer say a child of God will be void of works. It is other people who say this, and this is the same ploy the pharisees used which is why they are called modern day Pharisees.
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#63
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
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#63
Studyman said:
This is a good point.

What exactly were the sins of the Pharisees according to the Author of my Faith?


Matt. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition

So a modern day Pharisee would also partake and preach religious traditions which actually transgress the commandments of God.

Do we know any religion which comes in Christ's Name that has religious traditions which transgress the commandments of God?

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men

So a Modern day Pharisee would partake of and preach Doctrines which come from "laws" of men and not from God.

Do we know of a religion which comes in Christ's name, that has influenced whole Governments to shut down on a "man made" High Days? I find it fascinating that the greatest High Day in all Christianity is a day the Word which became Flesh said nothing about. But the "Feasts" of this same Word which became Flesh, the Messiah, are rejected by those "many" who come in Christ's name.

Matt. 23:4 For they (Not God) bind heavy burdens (Yoke) and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders (necks); but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers

So a modern day Pharisee would place a "Yoke" on the necks of the religious people that followed them. Could this "Yoke" be their own religious "traditions" which transgress God's Commandments? Could this "Yoke" be man made doctrines, images of God in the likeness of a men's hair shampoo model, High Days created by religious man to walk in and not God ?

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

So the modern day Pharisee would claim to be God's Children, but would reject the Laws God gave them through Moses. Are we supposed to listen to the Moses and the Prophets?

What does the Messiah say about that.

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead

So the Pharisees rejected much of the teaching of Moses and the Prophets. The Messiah confirms this.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So a modern day Pharisee would also refuse to hear much what Moses and the prophets taught.


Do we know any religion, which comes in Christ's name, that rejects much of what the Law and Prophets teach?

Did the Messiah rebuke these preachers, using the Word's from the Law and Prophets? We know He did. And they didn't receive Him or those who would use His Word's in like manner.

So a modern day Pharisee would also reject any rebuke which came directly from the Word of God.

Great post, a perfect scale to "Test the spirits" with.
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for those of you who do not usually interact with studyman, he thinks that the Pharisees were devil worshipers, who had thrown out the Torah completely.

he has been shown, one by one, how the 613 laws ( tradition of the elders ) tie directly to the Torah, but does not recognize that they do.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#64
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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#64
Lucian_Hodoboc said:
Where does Jesus preach salvation through faith in His sacrifice alone anywhere in The Bible? Don't quote me Paul or any apostle. Give me a verse from Jesus Himself.
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please have a long, hard look into John chapter 3.

if you think, 'I've already had one' -- please have another. have 40 more. :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
#65
posthuman said:
please have a long, hard look into John chapter 3.

if you think, 'I've already had one' -- please have another. have 40 more. :)
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What part of not by works lest anyone should be puffed up do they not get?
 
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Embankment

Senior Member
#66
Feb 28, 2017
703
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#66
13) real sins are only those you do willfully and on purpose. Sins we do as part of our earthly nature or that we do not choose to be aware of do not count.
 
Acadia

Acadia

Junior Member
#67
May 12, 2016
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The Great Northern Wilderness
believenoteveryspirit.weebly.com
#67
Lucian_Hodoboc said:
Why are they mutually exclusive? Do the goats get sent to the eternal fire for not believing in Him or for not having works? Did the rich man get sent to the place of torture for not believing in Jesus or for having enjoyed his riches without caring for other people (Lazarus)'s sufferings? Did the Samaritan help the robbed man because he believed in Jesus or because he listened to the kindness placed by God in his heart? Did Jesus not tell the rich young man that, in order to be perfect, he has to keep the commandments, sell his possessions, give the money to the poor and follow Him? Did Jesus tell him to only follow him? No. The part about helping others (works) is important.
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Salvation is by grace, through faith and NOT of works. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

In regard to salvation, faith and our works ARE mutually exclusive.

Romans 11:
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#68
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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#68
Shaking my head incredulously. Do they really have to say 'osas'? osas is the debate between salvation wrought via our works or Gods work. Such as this gem right here:

eternally-gratefull said:
Alot of people do not get what when we are talling about salvation. The only works that matters are the works of God. As our works are filthy rags.

A sign of a pharisee is that they always focus on a persons works or his self righteousness Not the work of God.

A child of God works because he has faith (true faith produces works) you will never hear a true grace believer say a child of God will be void of works. It is other people who say this, and this is the same ploy the pharisees used which is why they are called modern day Pharisees.
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If you discuss salvation and works in the same neighborhood you are discussing osas! Whether you use the term or not.

Ssmh
 
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Studyman

Senior Member
#69
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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#69
gb9 said:
for those of you who do not usually interact with studyman, he thinks that the Pharisees were devil worshipers, who had thrown out the Torah completely.

he has been shown, one by one, how the 613 laws ( tradition of the elders ) tie directly to the Torah, but does not recognize that they do.
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John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men


Christ's Word's, not mine, but I do truly "believe" them.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#70
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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#70
Acts 15:5 mentions believing pharisees.
in Philippians 3:5, Paul refers himself a pharisee ((as touching the Law)).

i reckon these facts lead inescapably to this conclusion:

being a pharisee, modern or ancient, doesn't necessarily mean not a believer.
being a believer doesn't necessarily mean not a pharisee.

a hope remains :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#71
#71
RickyZ said:
Shaking my head incredulously. Do they really have to say 'osas'? osas is the debate between salvation wrought via our works or Gods work. Such as this gem right here



If you discuss salvation and works in the same neighborhood you are discussing osas! Whether you use the term or not.

Ssmh
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We are discussing modern day phariseeism, If you have something to add. Feel free. If your going to argue we are discussing OSAS, then I will cut off our conversation because your trying to sidetrack the discussion to an off topic discussion, then also, Please go find a thread where we are actually discussing OSAS if thats what you wish to discuss
 
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ljs

Member
#72
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
#72
Embankment said:
13) real sins are only those you do willfully and on purpose. Sins we do as part of our earthly nature or that we do not choose to be aware of do not count.
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seriously ???
All of us commit willfull sin
 
Lucian_Hodoboc

Lucian_Hodoboc

Junior Member
#74
Dec 28, 2017
18
6
3
#74
RickyZ said:
Shaking my head incredulously. Do they really have to say 'osas'? osas is the debate between salvation wrought via our works or Gods work. Such as this gem right here:



If you discuss salvation and works in the same neighborhood you are discussing osas! Whether you use the term or not.

Ssmh
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What's "osas"?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#75
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,349
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#75
Lucian_Hodoboc said:
Where does Jesus say that in the goats and sheep parable? Where does Jesus preach salvation through faith in His sacrifice alone anywhere in The Bible? Don't quote me Paul or any apostle. Give me a verse from Jesus Himself.
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Matthew 25:31-46
Jesus said in John 3:16- 18

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 1

The word "Believe" " i " have faith. Jesus spoke much on faith. Roman 10:9-10 is yet again Confess and Believe. they are one id the same ; you believe produces an action we are saved by Grace not of works but one who is saved will have action because God did not save us to just wait for His return.
 
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Studyman

Senior Member
#76
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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#76
eternally-gratefull said:
Alot of people do not get what when we are talling about salvation. The only works that matters are the works of God. As our works are filthy rags.

A sign of a pharisee is that they always focus on a persons works or his self righteousness Not the work of God.

A child of God works because he has faith (true faith produces works) you will never hear a true grace believer say a child of God will be void of works. It is other people who say this, and this is the same ploy the pharisees used which is why they are called modern day Pharisees.
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I couldn't agree more with your first sentence. The only thing that matters is "Keeping the Commandments of God", as Paul and Jesus declared.

The Pharisees, the mainstream preachers of their time, were pushing their own religious traditions and doctrines of men, not God's "Works" as many falsely preach on this forum..

Yes, they claimed to be children of God, yes they claimed to be following His Laws. But the Messiah clearly said they were not.

Matt. 23:4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens (Yoke) and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders (Necks) ; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments (works) of men (Not God as "many" who come in Christ's name preach)

Acts 7:
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

The Messiah, however, pushed obedience to His Father for Salvation, not obedience to religious men whose traditions transgress the commandments of God, as with the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, the Pharisees, but obedience to Him, the Word which became Flesh..

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep (DO) the commandments

Matt. 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, (WORK) and take up his cross, (WORK) and follow me. (WORK)

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth (DOETH) them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

These instructions from the Christ all command that we "DO" something to receive the Grace God has provided for mankind.

Not our own religious "works" like our own High days, or our own "wonderful works in His name" as did those in Matt. 7.

Everyone has "works". We do works every day, some religious, some not. But as you said, "Man's "work" is a filthy rag". This is why the Messiah said to "DO" the Works created by Him for mankind.

Eve was given instructions as well. But "another voice", using some of God's Words, convinced her she was "Already Saved", therefore, she need not "DO" the instructions the Word which became Flesh gave to her.

The Serpent actually convinced her that God's instructions were there to keep her in prison, keep her Blind. A "burden" to her. This lie is still promoted by those who use parts of God's Word even today as the Word warned.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Refuse to "DO" as instructed) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

She would have been better off rejecting the other Voice and just listening to the Word which became Flesh as did Abraham and Zechariahs, and just trusted Him enough to "DO" as He instructed.

A good lesson rejected by the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, and it seems, today as well.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#78
#78
Lucian_Hodoboc said:
There are plenty of people belonging to other religions, as well as some atheists and agnostics, who are humanitarians and give to charity.
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Then you must think people of all religions who do good deeds are saved by their works.......or........you're saying works don't matter in determining if you're a sheep or not but that doesn't seem consistent with what you've been posting, so you must be saying anybody of any religion is saved by doing good works to earn that salvation.
 
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Ralph-

Guest
#79
#79
Lucian_Hodoboc said:
Faith in God is measured by what it does can be interpreted in several ways. One could say that he has faith in God that God will solve things if he prays several hours every day, so he prays several hour every day. Another could say that he shows his faith by helping out the poor several hours every day instead of praying, so he helps out the poor for several hours every day.
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No, praying is not among the works that demonstrate saving faith in God. Anybody can pray. In fact, the Pharisees were chided by Jesus for their lengthy prayers.

The works of genuine saving faith are the works borne of godly character. Character that is summed up in the fruit of the Spirit:

"22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control "-Galatians 5:22

You won't catch 'do-gooders' of other religions being characterized by these qualities of the Spirit. In fact, my personal observation of atheist humanitarians and other non-Christian do-gooders is that they are among the most angry and self-righteous people I've ever seen. They are hardly characterized as being Christ-like.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#80
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,349
113
#80
OSAS is not the context of this please leave the post context to what it is. Thank you
 
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