Not By Works

yep. just keep looking through obscure translations until you find one that suits you. always a good idea. or not.


down here in the southern u.s., in the Appalachian mountains, there are a few snake handling churches .

you garb a poisonous snake, if it does not bite you, or if it does and you do not get sick, then you are o.k. till next week.


if you do get bit and get sick, then you have unrepentant sin in your heart.

so, since you are into obscure fringe things, want to garb a handful of rattlesnake??

I mean, obscure translations, obscure practices should go hand in hand, right?

LOL the Emphatic Diagalott is not an obscure translation...

It is An english-greek interlinear that has notes on nearly all the different ancient manuscript readings...

It's called real study materials.

ohh and that verses about handling snakes.. is not in the oldest manuscripts.. divergent manuscripts...

Yep and gramatically it is a question....even your cited example has a ?

μὴ δύναται ἡ πίστις σῶσαι αὐτόν

Is there a grammatical reason that "not is able the faith to save him" is a question instead of a statement?
Yes, it is a question rather than a statement.

Note the negative particle μὴ followed by an indicative verb (δύναται). Normally, the indicative verb is negated by the particle οὐ

Most students just learn that οὐ is used with the indicative and μὴ is used with the subjunctive, infinitive, etc. This instance falls into the "etc" category; μὴ is negating the entire thought. This is a classic case of a question expecting a negative answer. The construction is without a precise parallel in English, but the so-called "tagged" questions in English provide the same sense.....

this is exactly what it is saying....

This faith is not able to save him, is it?

Source-->Biblical Hermeneutics and a study of the Greek text....

Face it, you intentionally left off the fact that it is perceived and given as a question because you are a works salvationist....end of story

While I am not an expert in Greek I have many many Greek Concordances, Lexicons and Word Studies.

In the "Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament" it confirms what both translations I have provided show. I also have a hard copy of this and read it's breakdown of the greek language before posting this.

It gives 22 lines of writing to breakdown the Greek language for each word with grammar and context to the owrds in said sentence.

It says, and this is just the last line. that the faith in question is "not able to save; i.e. achieve salvation for him"

https://www.amazon.com/New-Linguistic-Exegetical-Greek-Testament/dp/0310201756


Possibly you knew Greek better than the 3 study materials I have provided, IDk, I doubt it but who knows. However I have done my due diligence in seeking how the original manuscripts read and the breakdown of the koine greek...

I admire your study materials and techniques ..however..i dont agree with your beliefs ;(

Thank you and I don;t think any 2 people 100% agree on everything, but as long as we seek the MEssiah I think that is the most important thing. As we are all on a journey seeking Him, and some years ago I realized something I had been told was I lie. I prayed and I decided I was going to find out what the truth was. I am still continually learning, I diligently seek what is true, comfort aside... Honeslty I just want the truth of Yah and to be with Him. So I seek.

AMEN...whoever seeks shall FIND! GOD WANTS us to KNOW HIM!

Hosea 6:1-3,1 ‘Come, and let us turn back to יהוה. For He has torn but He does heal us, He has stricken but He binds us up."2 After two days He shall revive us, on the third day He shall raise us up, so that we live before Him."3 So let us know, let us pursue to know יהוה. His going forth is as certain as the morning. And He comes to us like the rain, like the latter rain watering the earth.’"

9 “And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the Lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, HE WILL REJECT YOU FOREVER.

John 12
47 “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. 48 There is a judge for THE ONE WHO REJECTS ME and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke WILL CONDEMN HIM AT THE LAST DAY.

1 corinthians
15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

WILL ANANIAS AND SAPPHIRA BE CONSIGNED TO THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR TOGETHER WITH ALL THE LIARS, DECEIVERS AND DISOBEDIENT SERVANTS OF A "WALKING DEAD" THEOLOGY?

revelations 21
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

For those who do not know what a Snake handling Church is; most would consider it a psuedo Christian cult. I guess the never read this verse:

Matthew 4:7 (NASB)
7 Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

NOR THIS VERSE:

1 Peter 2:13-16 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.


And YET they do EXACTLY what it says that we should NEVER DO, and also defy the ordinances of man. Because most states have forbidden the practice. So you have to wander, just how many snake bites go unreported, and most refuse medical attention. One of the Pastors in this video actually died of the snake bite and he refused to go to the emergency room until it was too late.

um, the emphatic diaglott was in the hands of the watchtower group ( Jehovah;s witness ) for 50 years .

so, i'll not be trusting anything that cult had it's hands on.

so, no surprise that one cult ( Hebrew roots ) taking something that one guy wrote in the 1850"s wrote, then was in the hands of the watchtower ( another cult ) is being used to push cult propaganda.

now, surly you knew that the watchtower had this for 5 decades, did you not??

you are so quick to demonize the catholics ( not good in their own right ), but silence on the watchtower.

you expose your self more and more.

yes, I know. these are a few hours drive from my home.

I mentioned this to make a point- this is what happens when people just set out to prove themselves saved ( or " right with God " ). instead of - " believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved ".

The the Watchtower Society was started by a Freemason whos family/bloodline nearly all has ties to secret socities and started 4 major religions in the USA back in those times... I actually studied the geneology and found this out, I was surprised to see 4 major branches of Christianity all started by these...

However the Emphatic Diagalott does use the Koine Greek side by side with english with strongs numbers and even shows what divergent manuscripts omit and add. It is one of the interlinears I own, I have a number of them, "OT and "NT" That just happened to be the one I grabbed because it is "NT" only.

Also as I said I provided 2 translations and 2 places that show it is in the Greek like that, including this source:

The Day Is Near

11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yhhourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING for him.


Romans 8:24-25 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But IF WE HOPE FOR WHAT WE DO NOT HAVE YET we wait for it patiently.


2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For WHAT IS SEEN IS TEMPORARY, but WHAT IS UNSEEN IS ETERNAL.


THERE ARE SOME ON THIS FORUM WHO CLAIM TO HAVE ALREADY POSSESSED ETERNAL SALVATION. DO THEY NO LONGER WAIT FOR THE LORD TO BRING THEM SALVATION SINCE THEY ALREADY POSSESS IT? ARE THEY NOT GOING TO FACE JUDGMENT ANYMORE?


Philippians 3:12-16 NOT that I have already OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY BEEN MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward THE GOAL to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are MATURE should take such a view of things. And if on some point YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have ALREADY ATTAINED.


1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving THE GOAL OF YOUR FAITH, the SALVATION of your souls.



SALVATION IS THE GOAL OF THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.


OSAS IS A FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES THE WORD OF GOD.


Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING for his father or mother. THUS YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. AND YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.”



JESUS SAID;


“If you love me, you will obey what I command.” john 14:15



…” If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”matthew 19:17



“ Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” john 14:21-24



THIS FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE TEACHES THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS JUST A WORK THAT MAN CAN DO BUT HAVE NO PART, NEITHER ESSENTIAL NOR NECESSARY FOR SALVATION WHICH CONTRADICTS THE FF:


Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.


A QUOTE FROM ElAmor’s POST


2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words. says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

WE ARE TO WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION NOT AS INDIVIDUALS WORKING FOR HIS OWN SALVATION BUT AS ONE BODY IN CHRIST(eph 4:1-16) WORKING AS GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS OF GOD(mat 25:14-30) WHO ARE LIVING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT AND NOT ACCORDING TO THE SINFUL NATURE.(rom 8:1-17) WE HONOR AND GLORIFY GOD BY THESE WORKS OF LOVE, FAITH AND OBEDIENCE THAT BEARS GOOD FRUITS THAT WILL LAST..(john 15:6-17)


Luke 3:9 the ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”


20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT FEAR: 21for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest HE AĹSO SPARE NOT THEE. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE in his goodness: OTHERWISE,THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.


1 Peter 1:3-7 Praise to God for a living hope Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a LIVING HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the SALVATION THAT IS READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be PROVED GENUINE and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.

2 Peter 1:5-11 For this very reason, make every effort to ADD TO YOUR FAITH goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being INEFFECTIVE and UNPRODUCTIVE in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and BLIND, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his PAST SINS. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


14Wherefore he saith, AWAKE thou that sleepest, and ARISE FROM THE DEAD, and Christ shall give thee light.


11And that, knowing the time, that now it ishigh time to AWAĶE out of sleep: FOR NOW IS OUR SALVATION NEARER THAN WHEN WE BELIEVED


4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO LASCIVIOUSNESS, and DENYING the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.


John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from
God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.


“DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE” (james 2:14-26)



“LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR” rom 3:4

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

When James says "faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead" (verse 17) he does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (that's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. Again, if someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, (no works are ever produced from this claim of faith) then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

He walked with God because he was a man of faith, yet we are saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). The religion of your land is salvation by works.

The word obedience does not throw me into a tizzy and self righteously seeking salvation by works is not obedience (Romans 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; 10:1-4 etc..) and it's also not walking as Jesus walked.

Those who teach salvation by works in general don't know Jesus either.

Zacharias and Elisabeth accepted God's way and sought to live by it, but without FAITH, they could not be considered blameless by committing theirselves to walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord. Zacharias and Elisabeth were not righteous (literally., in right standing with God) based on the merits of their own goodness (Romans 3:10-12; 3:23), but their faith was accounted to them as righteousness, just as with Abraham (Romans 4:2-3). Even in the old testament, the only way to be in right standing with God was by faith (Habakkuk 2:4; Galatians 3:11). Israel in general lacked the understanding of justification by faith (Romans 10:1-4). You will notice in verse 6 that the scripture doesn't say that Zacharias and Elisabeth were sinless but rather blameless. They accepted God's way and sought to live by it, but without FAITH, they could not be considered blameless by committing theirselves to walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord. In Philippians 3:6, before Paul was saved, we see him describing himself; "Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." The NIV says, "as for legalistic righteousness, faultless." So they were not saved based on the merits of sinless obedience to all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord.

In regards to man being sinless:

Ecclesiastes 7:20 - For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.

Romans 3:23 - ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Short answer FAITH. Did not believe God and was deceived by the serpent.

I have nothing to think about and I'm not hiding anything. Disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief and obedience is a manifestation of belief. Abraham obeyed God by departing out of his country, yet that is not the end of the story. *In Genesis 15:5, we read that God brought Abraham outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” In verse 6 we read that Abraham believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

*Also, in Romans 4:2-6, we read - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Why do you work so hard to hide this truth? All you do is accuse believers of following their own man made religion and self righteously promote your own man made religion of works salvation, then try to package and sell it in shady lawyer fashion.

You should really think about that.

V......

I believe you are correct. We become qualified to receive eternal salvation when we repent and are water baptized. Ours is to maintain that status ......until the end (physical death).
Our righteousness is confirmed as we do works for Christ...as ambassadors. ...yes works, consistent with scriptures. The Bible cautions us not to look for accolades here on earth of our efforts...but, store them in Heaven.
If we seeks recognition for them on this earth...that which we get is all we get...no credits is Heaven.

B...,
All of G-d's commandments listed in scriptures.

I have posted study after study and you ignore them. You can't help it I know.

As it is written and scripture can not be broken.


Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.