Not By Works

It literally blows my mind how many QUOTE MATTHEW to imply that WE ARE under and BOUND to the LAW.....it is pure ignorance.....the ONLY application of the LAW in this AGE is to CONVICT and CONDEMN MAN as guilty......end of story! Geesh!!!!!!!

Amen thank you decon for putting this out there for all of the "Law Keepers" to see, we were the guilty ones and Jesus was the innocent one suffering the agony of the cross on our behalf. He paid the price having setting us free, "He forgave us all of our sins"

God bless!

Colossians2:13-15
13) When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14) having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15) And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

You have not helped, there is a difference in saying sin is still sin, and saying you can fulfill the law.

The law states cursed is everyone who does not confirm and obey every word, have you done this? If not your cursed, you can be sinlless from now till the day you die, your cursed, unless Christ’s curse is applied to you (he fulfilled the law in your place.

Yes the law will never fail, As long as there are unsaved people, they are bound to the law to save themselves. Or have them led to christ.

The law can not tell you how to be good, It can just expose your sin, and lead you to christ, which was its purpose..

People who want to put believers back under law are putting them under bondage..

<><.🕇.><>

Now I must totally disagree with your Conclusion that I highlighted in Red. Those are the Two sides of the Same Glove.

How do you plan to be obedient to this verse WITHOUT LOVE:


Leviticus 10:3 (NKJV)
3 And Moses said to Aaron, "This is what the LORD spoke, saying: 'By those who come near Me I must be regarded as holy; And before all the people I must be glorified.' " So Aaron held his peace.


And How do you plan to be obedient to these verses WITHOUT LOVE:


1 John 4:18-19 (HCSB)
18 There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. So the one who fears has not reached perfection in love.
19 We love because He first loved us.


How do you plan to Strive to Be OBEDIENT to This verse WITHOUT LOVE:


1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,


Now THAT IS NOT Perfection of OUR LIVES, but rather the DIRECTION OF OUR LIVES. We are the ONES who Strive to OBEY, and OBEDIENCE comes from THE LOVE THAT GOD POURED INTO OUR HEARTS, AFTER WE WERE SAVED.


Romans 5:1-5 (HCSB)
1 Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 We have also obtained access through Him by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only that, but we also rejoice in our afflictions, because we know that affliction produces endurance,
4 endurance produces proven character, and proven character produces hope.
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


WHY DO YOU SUPPOSE GOD POURED HIS LOVE INTO THE FERTILE SOIL OF OUR HEARTS?
So that it will produce a CROP of LOVE FOR HIM, and OTHERS.


1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,


The TRUTH is GOD NEEDS AND WANTS OUR LOVE, that is WHY HE poured HIS LOVE directly into the Soil of our HEARTS, to act as a SEED in that Fertile Soil, because HE KNEW WE WERE LACKING. Do you not believe that GOD Searches the HEART for the MOTIVE on WHY WE SERVE HIM? It is NOT that we Serve Him out of a sense of Duty; but rather the PURE MOTIVE OF LOVE, otherwise it is wood, hay, and stubble, or just a Pile of FILTHY RAGS.


1 Chronicles 28:9 (ESV)
9 “And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever.

Romans 8:27-30 (HCSB)
27 And He who searches the hearts knows the Spirit’s mind-set, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Revelation 2:23 (HCSB)
23 . . . Then all the churches will know that I am the One who examines minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works.


I need to remind people that SALVATION, is NOT a heavenly reward, IT IS A FREE GIFT.

I see what you are saying. Some questions obviously come into my mind, so here they are:

1) What part of the law has Jesus not fulfilled yet? I have always thought that Jesus' final sacrifice fulfilled completely the law, so what parts did it fulfill and what parts did it not fulfill, and what does that mean (see #2 below).
2) If the law has not been fulfilled yet, are we to continue to do all the things that the Law of Moses contained? For instance, must we continue to offer sacrifice? Must we continue to have the special feast days? Must we continue to honor the Sabbath day and worship on Saturday? Must we abide all the other statutes of the law? Must we continue to circumcise our children?
3) How does the final sacrifice of Jesus affect the law?
4) I have always believed that the Law of Moses was completed and that the Law of Christ was brought forth to replace it, along with a change in the Priesthood. That change in the Priesthood meant that now Jesus was at the head, not the High Priest of the Aaronic Priesthood. Also Jesus was now operating under the Melchizedec Priesthood, a higher Priesthood than the Aaronic Priesthood. Also that all worthy men could now hold the Priesthhod of God, and not just the men of the tribe of Levi. So you mentioned a change in the Priesthood, can you tell me what you think that meant?

I think this is enough for this time. I appreciate an adult discussion about this topic, I promise I will not yell and scream at you and call you dirty names. I want to know how you see the Law of Moses and Jesus fitting together. Thank you.

I go by what Jesus said about the law.

Matthew 5
NIV
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


We are removed from the penalty of sin (breaking the law) if and only if we accept Jesus and are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Those not accepting the free gift of grace are then under the law at judgement time. Woe to those who reject this free gift.

Law Keepers, you have "fallen from grace", did you miss that Sunday School Class that told us that we are, "Save by grace through faith, it is a gift of God, "Not by Works", lest anyone should boast." (Eph2:14). Your theological bucket has a large hole in it and can hold no water.

If the Creator of all that exists stooped way down from heaven, out of time and space, to come in human form who's name is Jesus Christ to save a lost humanity, why on God's green earth would He need your token of help to do anything, let alone trying to keep his holy law. His Holy Law was a School Master to bring you to the Savior who can save you.

And now that you believe in the "One" who can save you you are now saying to all of us here you are going back to the thing that condemn's you? That's like being set free from prison and telling your Jailer thank you but I would rather remain in my tiny jail cell, makes no sense at all and it is a huge insult to the "One" who has set you free from the penalty of death.

God bless!

John5:24
24) Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.…

Galatians5:3,4
3) Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4) You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Jeremiah2:12,13
12) Be appalled at this, you heavens,
and shudder with great horror,”
declares the Lord.
13) “My people have committed two sins:
They have forsaken me,
the spring of living water,
and have dug their own cisterns,
broken cisterns that cannot hold water.

The law will stand for those who are not in Christ Jesus...For those who are IN Christ , we are under grace...xox...

Have you ever considered that the Pre-Incarnate Christ, wrote the Names in the Lamb's Book of Life before the Foundation of the World, that HE KNEW WOULD CHOOSE HIM? I have learned that whenever you see Christians line up on the Opposite side of an issue; the TRUTH usually lies somewhere in the Middle.


Now the verses below, SHOULD answer your question:


Matthew 25:31-46 (NIV)
31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


The PURE MOTIVE OF LOVE was only in the SHEEP, and not the Goats. {See 1 John 3:14-19}.

So does this interaction with a Catholic now give you the abiblity to know someone believes in "works salvation" even though they say different?

This was very fun to read, however none of this is what I sid or a replyto what I said. It ignores my questions and statements, puts up 'what other people "like" you (get it? if you say like me Im the nresponsible for others views) and then disproves the examples YOU gave... This term is over used but Dan this is a great example of a strawman argument. Again you did not touch on what I said but rather gave your own examples and defeated them.

Fun to read? Is this all fun and games for you? I’ve listened to enough of your strawman arguments and sugar coated double talk. I see that you completely ignored what I shared with you about the gospel. You are not fooling me for one second with your silly arguments and shady lawyer tactics.

Romans 3:21 - 4:8

God’s Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Boasting Excluded
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Abraham Justified by Faith
(Gen. 17:10)
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Question.

Were Abraham and David under the same law?

Was in not David who broke enough of the law he was under that in fact he should have been put to death?

Was it not God who said of David "A man after my own heart"

Yet under the law he should have been put to death?
Why not?

What's the difference between Abraham & David concerning God?

To me there is no difference (other than that David was Jewish, under the law and Abraham was not)

They both belived God, they both loved God, they had faith in God.
So they wanted to be like God, hence obedience to God, out of love as a result of being justified through that faith.

Further more they knew that there was a bigger picture.
That bigger picture being the promised saviour the Messiah.

God's covenant with David (law breaker and disobedient many times)

2 Samuel 7:12-17
12 “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men. 15 But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever.” ’ ”
17 According to all these words and according to all this vision, so Nathan spoke to David.

God's covenant with Abraham

Genesis 15:5-6
5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”
6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

This was given after Abraham left Ur

LOl, no I do enjoy to discuss, debate etc. Scriptual/Biblical views, why would I come here if I did not? Yes I actually enjoy your posts 99% of the time, they seem te be sincere.

Ohh well seems you have gone the way of DC now, name calling... Yeah.... So you don;t touch on what I said at all, but make your own example and defeat it, but Im supposed to touch on all your views... I just say this: The Messiah is THE SHEPHERD, the Messiah, the One to follow... He is the King and the Judge... I think we would all do well to heed His words.

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."

So you agree that works do not save a person?

I have said probably more than 10 times in the past 2 days that works do not save.

This is my view and Scriptual fact:

True faith does the works of YHWH, if someone has authentic belief in the Most High, they will do what He says.

Empty faith does not do the works of YHWH, if someone claims faith but does not really believe they will not do what He says.

I could use a ton, but I want to touch on a few Scriptures:

James 2:17,22, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead." 22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"

SImple, workless faith/belief IS DEAD. Belief+works = perfect faith.







Many freak out anytime the Law is promoted, lawyer, Pharisee, etc. Or say that the Law is for those not in Jesus...

Nonsense.

In what most people call the "New Covenant" the Law IS WRITTEN IN THE HEART:

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them.”

Yet the world says you can't seek to obey it, read it, love it, etc.

Yet the Mighty One says HE will put it in the heart...

Who am I to beleive? the humans who say I have to rejec it or the Most High who says He will IMPLANT IT IN MY HEART?

(Also the Messiah says the Law will never pass, says it's intent is love and says a minimum of 3 times post cross His followers guard the Law...)

There is nothing to touch on and I’ve already discussed your arguments in regards to the law And commandment keeping with you before Yes the Messiah is the one to follow And He is absolutely King and Judge.
Oh yeah that’s some really terrible name calling. There is really nothing to touch on and none of your arguments are anything new or enlightening. We all do need to heed the words of Jesus and not mix law and grace. John 1:17 - For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.