Not By Works

I have put the occasional member on Eeyore but never on ignore.

It's not a good thing to lie.

I've never really researched the great tribulation.
So I don't understand what it is all about, what it means.

I'm a simple man

No, I never said I was God. Nor was it implied.
If I'm still a sinner, then Jesus failed on the cross and the Salvation principle is a lie.
That's not what Christian faith , or the journey of holiness in The Way of The Word, was meant to be by Christ's sacrifice.

Well.....seeing how the number of verses that deal with the second coming outnumber the verses that deal with his first coming like 8 to 1 with some 1500 prophecies concerning the second coming in some form or fashion I figure he wanted us to know and understand the event.....just saying migo

lilly .. what your saying is not that you dont sin , but that God doesnt see us as sinners if we have Christ's imputed righteousness ?
Is that what you mean ?

Revelation 1:1-3,1 Revelation of יהושע Messiah, which Elohim gave Him to show His servants what has to take place with speed. And He signified it by sending His messenger to His servant Yoḥanan,"2 who bore witness to the Word of Elohim, and the witness of יהושע Messiah – to all he saw."3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and guard what is written in it, for the time is near."

Revelation 1:1-3,1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,"2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw."3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near."

Romans 6 is so often misinterpreted in its import. Paul is talking to those who are not yet in the covenant. Sin being a new concept to them.

Yes, Sin is transgression of the Law. But as Jesus showed. The law does not show us every sin.

Click to expand...

I don't add to what was said. I simply recalled what was said. Without the law there is no sin. Because sin is transgression of the law.

The ten commandments of God pre-dated Moses and his visit to Mt. Sinai.

That's exactly right. Thank you.

He said He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets.

He has not yet "Fulfilled" "All that was written about Him in the Law and the Prophets". At least according to the Scriptures.


First, to my knowledge it is Bible 101 that the Messiah has not yet come back the 2nd time, that Everyone knows Him from the least to the greatest, that those who practice "Iniquity" have been dropped in the Lake of Fire. It seems very obvious that "ALL" has not yet been fulfilled.

I don't agree with the premise of your question. If the Messiah didn't come to destroy, then He will never destroy. Even when He has "fulfilled" ALL that is written about Him, the Law and Prophets will still not be "Destroyed". Like He said: If it is not destroyed, then it is still here. If it is still here, then it is still God's Judgment.

Paul confirmed this understanding.

Rom. 2:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

And even when the Christ does "Fulfill" all that is written about Him, His Fathers Word's are still not destroyed.

Is. 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever

Is. 66:
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

1 Pet. 1:
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


The Man Messiah didn't change the Priesthood. His Father did.

John 7:
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

The Messiah said the "Priesthood" appointed according to the Law of Moses, had corrupted themselves.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men

Jer. 5:
26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.
27 As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich.
28 They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.
29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?
30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

God promised to fix this problem. First in the Law and Prophets, and then re-stated in Hebrews 8.

Heb. 8:
8 For finding fault with them, (Corrupt Levite Priests) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

And again:

Heb. 7:
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

God Himself became a man, the perfect man who did not listen to the Serpent, or the Woman.

But He was not from the tribe of Levi, but from Judah. God's Law stated that only a Levite could partake of the Priesthood of God.

So God "changed" His Law to allow others, not just Levites, into the "Sanctuary". Now, we are forgiven by the Perfect Blood of the Perfect Sacrifice, not the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" given by Moses to the Levites, that the Jews were still pushing on the Galatians and others.

Now the Messiah writes His Fathers Laws in His Peoples minds, we no longer need to find a Scribe or Levite Priest to filter God's Words.

A new "Ministry" a better covenant.

Jesus rebuke of the elders and pharisee was because they were of their father the devil, as he called them.
Elijah was rebuking the same entity when ridiculing the priests of Baal.

Where did Jesus ever teach his disciples, his people, using the language some use here among sisters and brothers while speaking to sisters and brothers?
Where is that example of mockery, ridicule, pejoratives, used toward those in Christ, or those to whom Christ was teaching the Way of Holiness exampled by Christ in scripture?

Your first mistake is to believe that everyone who names Christ actually knows Christ....how many gospels of salvation do you think there are....? Wake up.....!!

Couldn't have asked for a better example.
You have no qualification to judge who is in Christ . You alone are responsible for the image and likeness you give the title of , Christian.
While others shall know you by your fruit.And words.

I see why there’s a lot of controversy in this thread.

Need and want are two very different definitions...

I NEED a Twinkie (no I don't)..I WANT a Twinkie..lol

Beautiful!

Sometimes..simple is better

Try again....and too be honest, you're not that bright if you think I or any other believer cannot biblically judge a false gospel by the word of God!

Hi decon, your correction is welcome but to be sure I understand what you mean if by using the term second coming I was referring to, Christ appearing following the Great Tribulation when survivors on earth will see our Savior coming in the clouds;

Matthew24:30
30) "and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory."

Definition: Parousia

1. presence
2. the coming, arrival, advent
   1. the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God.

I claim to be "fruity" but there sure are a lot of NUTS in here..lol