Predestination or free wiil.

If you do not want to believe the KJV of the bible, that is your choice. I believe it to be the most accurate in harmonizing the scriptures.

LOLOL. REALLY?

So me grabing onto the rope allowing GOD TO RESCUE ME, is me earning salvation?

Can you imagine a person who actually was saved in this way, going to people screaming in joy and teling them HOW HE SAVED HIMSELF, because he grabed on a rope.. He would be laughed at, mocked and scorned. Because he refused to give credit to the person WHO REALLY SAVED HIM.

Again, HOW CAN I BOAST OF SAVING MYSELF IN THIS SENERIO?

Again, How can you claim you are not calvinist. You use the same strawman they use.

Yes, He quickened us. Why? Because he JUSTIFIED US.

The removal of sin is called being given the righteousness of Christ, or being justified. Justification MUST precede sanctification. Otherwise you are made alive IN YOUR SIN. Which is against everything that God has told us in his word.

I believe God can use all versions, and that all versions have some errors.


1st, the word in or of is not in the origional greek.

2nd, It can not mean the faith of christ, because paul imediately followes this with the words (even of us who believed) and how we are justified by faith not works.. ie, a person is justified by faith, we are all justified by faith in christ (the same greek word is used for both words)


Since works is in context of us doing works. Faith is also in context of us trusting or believing in Christ.

Same in Eph

Again, You think God saved you because he has faith in you? Really?

Your rendition is reminiscent of a joke told here in Spain. I know the punch line.

Your understanding of the interpretation of the word salvation is the same as mine. We can be saved (delivered), kept safe and sound while following his commandments here on earth, God delivers, rescues, us from danger and destruction when we repent here on earth. I am not adding to God's word, and am in agreement, other than that, with what statements you have made. Yes, we have been (perfect tense) rescued from the wrath to come by his death on the cross. About the burning building, If Christ did not die for their sins they will still be lost. John 6:39 Jesus said he died for all those that his Father gave him.

I am not talking about saved from the dangers of this earth. and God never promises to save us from these dangers even if we repent Thjis is proven by Pauls thorn, Pauls numerous sufferings which most people could never endure, let alone live through. And many many other examples.

Not even sure why this got into the context. Saved by faith means saved eternally from Gods wrath. Nothing else.

I do not know what version you are using, but the KJV says in Gal 2:16, Quot "we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law. God did not have faith in man at all, that is why he choose an elect people before the foundation of the world, because in Ps 53:2-3, God looked down from heaven upon the children of men to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back; they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. God still does not have faith in my fleshly nature, but after Christ died for me, God looks upon me as white as snow and deems my sins as far away from him as the east is from the west If you want to construct the scriptures to fit your ability to have something to do with your eternal salvation, have at it, but the scriptures still have to be in agreement with each other, and your interpretations do not harmonize.

You are in a sad state of mind, if you do not believe that God does not deliver us here on earth when we repent. Repentance is not to gain entrance into heaven, but to gain back our fellowship with God. Eternal salvation by works of man is a false doctrine, and that is what you are upholding, no matter how you disguise it by misinterpreting the scriptures.

God is the source of all, faith included. When we turn to Him for Salvation, it is He Who grants us the faith we each need to live a life holy and directed to our Home with our Father.

God bless you and keep you always in Jesus, Yeshua. Oh, my usual version of the Word is the KJV, but I am comfortable with many versions in other languages also. They do differ but the Holy Spirit intervenes always when He deems it necessary. When something, and much there is, has me stymied, Isimply hold it in my heart n until the light is shined upon or until God tells me not to worry about it….

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So you believe that you do not need to have faith because you save by Christ faith?

You can be atheist or Muslim or Hindu doesn't matter ?

I went through twelve years of hard studying trying to sort out , seemingly, contradicting scriptures, and was revealed by the revelation of the Holy Spirit within me, to harmonize the scriptures. That was after I gave up on myself in thinking that I was smart enough to figure it out. I learned that God will not reveal until you deny yourself. There is a way that seems right unto man, but the end thereof is the way of death (separation from God).

I am saying that our faith is not the cause of our eternal salvation. If you attach anything man has to do as a requirement to be saved eternally, it would be , salvation by works.

Faith is works now? Only a calvinist could say something like that lol. That statement may fly in Geneva, but not in my hood!

In the book of Romans FAITH is contrasted with WORKS. Thats what Paul labors to show all over the place.

That is why I ask,

You believe salvation not by your faith am I correct?

So you do not need to have faith in Jesus for your salvation, am I correct?

Thanks for your comments. I am a firm believer that we can understand very little about the scriptures unless the Holy Spirit within us guides and reveals to us. I understand that I cannot open a heart to understand the scriptures unless the Spirit within the hearer reveals. I like to discuss the scriptures just to keep me fresh and motivate me to study.

Our Faith in Jesus can save us, but not eternally. If people would learn how to separate the salvation (deliverance) scriptures it would benefit them in harmonizing the scriptures. Anytime you see the words repent, confess, accept, be obedient, believe, come to the knowledge of the truth, etc. , it will be addressed to the disobedient child of God, and not to the natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14..

We don't have any way of knowing God's purpose for all this. What we do know is that humans started out in a good situation but continually turned away. Even from Noah who knew God; his sons strayed away and wondered off. They didn't have to they choose to. Have you considered Ham's sin? From the ark to incestuous rape as if the flood and ark and saving the family and animals in a bodacious way never happened. As if he had never watched his father for years build an ark in faith and then enter into it and the flood occur and come through the other side. Every human on Earth is directly connected to this man Noah who knew God, yet we have so much sin and idolatry and evil.

1. I use the NKJV, Not that it matters.

2. The KJV is an INTEPRETATION, it is NOT INSPIRED, It is interpreted by a group of people taken from COPIES of texts which the authors of the KJV considered were copied FROM the actual inspired word of God. (Not to mention. Some were inspired from the latin text and not even from the greek text)

3. It is a word for word translation which the authors thought was the best word tranlation, taken into the english language, But like ALL english texts,it is flawed just on the basis of the flawed language it was translated into (IE the same english word “Love” is used in the tranlation of at least 4 different greek words, all with diffferent meanings and applications) but this is expected in a WORD FOR WORD translation. You have to take the best english WORD to translate what YOU THINK has the closest meaning to bring it into your language, Sadly they also transliterated words, instead of translating them (ie there was no english word for Baptiso. So they transliterated it to baptise. Which had NO ENGLISH defenition by itself. Also Christ, A translated of the greek word Christos, which is the greek translation of the hebrew word messiah. So again, in this aspect as with amhy other words, it is a flawed translation.

4. As I already proved, the word “of” or “in” s not even in the origional text it is the particular tranlators OPINION of what it should be, so NO ONE can prove which one is right, you have to use context WHich I already showed, the context is mans works vs mand faith, Gods faith has nothing to do with it.

So your so special. God died for you, but he did not die for other people.

Thats a good way to puff yourself up man, Forgive me if I refuse to do such a thing.

It depends on what salvation you are referring to. Salvation in the Greek means "a deliverance". Our faith in Jesus will save (deliver) us from a lack of knowledge as we live here on earth, but it will not deliver us eternally, otherwise it would make "our faith" the reason we are saved eternally. Anytime you place a requirement upon man to achieve eternal salvation, it would be salvation by the works of man. So there is a deliverance (salvation) here on earth and there is a deliverance (salvation) eternally. All scriptures must harmonize. If a man has spiritual faith he has already been regenerated and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and he Will have faith, because faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5). The natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 does not and cannot have spiritual faith. When the natural man (as we all were at one time) is regenerated then he has spiritual faith. If this makes sense to you, or if it does not make sense, let me hear from you. You are correct, my eternal salvation was not because of my faith.